November 18, 2008
Faced With RIAA Legal Fees, Some Students Drop Out of College
Colleges have taken different approaches to the recording industry’s anti-piracy campaign. Some have begun quickly erasing network-access logs, or refused to forward the industry’s settlement demands to students, or fought the industry’s subpoenas. Others have taken a different tack, trying to deter students from illegal file sharing by limiting their bandwidth, barring peer-to-peer programs from campus networks, stepping up education programs, promoting legal options like Napster or Ruckus, or seeking out pirates and blocking their Internet connections.
But students still pay to settle would-be lawsuits by the Recording Industry Association of America, and that financial hit may mean they have to drop out of college, said Jodi Thesing-Ritter, associate dean of student development at the University of Wisconsin at Eau Claire.
Ms. Thesing-Ritter mentioned dropouts in a recent article in The Spectator, Eau Claire’s campus newspaper.
Twenty-six students there got subpoenas from the RIAA in the spring of 2007, Ms. Thesing-Ritter told The Chronicle, and two “did not return to school because of their fees.” Each student had to pay at least $3,000, she said.
The file-sharing blog at ZeroPaid.com had something to say about that. Ms. Thesing-Ritter’s revelation “confirms our worst fears about the RIAA’s college campus piracy crackdown,” it says. “How many student dropouts are we willing to tolerate … ? Surely this toll on society is much greater than the sharing of a few albums.” —Sara Lipka
Posted on Tuesday November 18, 2008 | Permalink |Comments
Commenting is closed for this article.
Previous: Henry Jenkins, Prominent New-Media Scholar, to Leave MIT for U. of Southern California
Next: Text-Based Computer Game Features Graduate Student as Main Character
Or… ZeroPaid.com, it could teach these theives a valuable lesson than college obviously hadn’t — that some folks won’t tolerate stealing.
— Virginia Nose Picker Nov 18, 04:14 PM #
Teaching thieves an expensive lesson is a greater toll than allowing thievery to be tolerated? Where does it end? Where do you draw the line between acceptable thievery and unacceptable thievery? How is this different than tolerating plagiarism? It is all part of a morally-bankrupt society.
— deborah Nov 18, 04:31 PM #
A couple of our students were also hit with the $3k fine. If a student steals and uses the work of another in an academic setting, it’s called plagiarism and is punishable by appropriate academic probation. If a student continually shoplifts or gets a DUI, why would an institution step in say ‘this prosecution should not be tolerated?” Students know that this is wrong.
I have little sympathy, though I would hesitate to call it part of a “morally-bankrupt society.” It’s just wrong and students should not be exempt from the laws that govern society at large.
— Dave Nov 18, 05:36 PM #
“Teaching thieves an expensive lesson is a greater toll than allowing thievery to be tolerated? “
Expensive is one thing – absurd and excessive is another. The RIAA is going after students for hundreds of thousands of dollars, which is beyond ridiculous. The fines are grossly out of proportion to the damage caused by the infraction. We need courts to scale back the awards. If that means we need activist courts, then I’m for it.
— ap Nov 18, 05:45 PM #
“The fines are grossly out of proportion to the damage caused by the infraction.”
The fines might be out of proportion, but the students who did this knew it was illegal and took what they felt was an acceptable risk. It was their choice to do this.
— Janice Nov 18, 06:10 PM #
But gee, Mom, everyone was doing it! This isn’t fair!
No, but life ain’t fair. Lesson learned, we hope.
— lw Nov 18, 06:58 PM #
“The RIAA is going after students for hundreds of thousands of dollars…” Since when was $3000, hundreds of thousands. It is a chunk of change, but much less than a semester’s tuition at most universities. And a good many of the students I see at my local university could pay that fine within a year if they gave up their cell phone and cable TV services. Gee, then they might learn that it is actually fun to interact with friends face to face.
— drd Nov 18, 08:35 PM #
As the author of the aforementioned ZeroPaid article I think it’s important to make a distinction between thievery and sharing just as we make distinctions between crimes of hate and crimes of premeditation.
File-sharers share songs FOR NO PERSONAL FINANCIAL GAIN. Court cases rest entirely upon the sharing of copyrighted material vis a vis the “shared folder” in file-sharing programs.
To then make the leap that they are “thieves” is preposterous. Sharing what is not theirs is the issue, but to ruin the lives of the future stakeholders in our society for intangible losses of a mere hundred or so dollars is the real crime.
If a sng cost a measly .99 cents on iTunes a student would have to share a song 3000 times to justify the RIAA’s demands, yet it’s never the case. It’s always a matter of perceived losses.
More importantly, the Supreme Court has previously ruled that reparations in civil cases are no to exceed a factor of 10. With RIAA “settlement” fees running at a factor of 3000:1 or more where is the students’ justice?
Students aren’t even given the benefit of a day court before judge and jury.
Shame on the RIAA and shame on those who think that it’s tactic of forced settlement is sound.
At least legal relief is on the way.
http://www.zeropaid.com/news/9665/KaZaA+Defendant+to+RIAA:+428,571+Times+Actual+Damages+is+Unconstitutional/
http://www.zeropaid.com/news/9827/Harvard+Professor+Takes+on+the+RIAA
(THX RAY)
— Jared Moya Nov 19, 02:36 AM #
Jared Moya needs to be reminded that Congress passed the No Electronic Theft Act back in the 1990s precisely to deter the behavior of students who were sharing software through bulletin boards with no expectation of personal financial gain involved. That change in the law applies to the theft of file-sharing, too, and it is indeed the law. Try to change it if you will, but you are not likely to find Congress very sympathetic.
— Sandy Thatcher Nov 19, 08:05 AM #
All the above comments have been posted by robots run by the RIAA
— A freedom loving person Nov 19, 08:45 AM #
Perhaps federal regulations can be adjusted to allow the financial aid office to build the fines into the cost of education. This would allow the student to borrow additional student loans to pay the fines.
Yes, I’m being sarcastic.
— Bill Nov 19, 08:53 AM #
Compared to other fines that are criminal or civil, the $3,000 per song is a bit much. A penalty this high per song is excessive. Come on folks, if $3,000 or more is making students drop out, then perhaps these same students were living on the edge as far as their school finances anyway. This fine just tips the scales against returning to school. Perhaps an activist court or the movement by Harvard will gain ground and put the RIAA in their place once and for all.
— bigfruitbasket Nov 19, 09:01 AM #
My problem with the RIAA’s actions are not in regards to whether the student’s actions are stealing or not (stealing is wrong) – it is the methods used. They (the RIAA) are little short of a vigilante mob with no checks to insure that the people they are pursuing have actually done anything wrong. What results is that poor students are guilty until proven innocent. Those who have means can either buy their way out or afford to pay a lawyer a ton of money to prove their innocence. In either case the deck is stacked against the accused (whether there is any merit to the case or not). The accused only has two weeks to take the $3000 settlement option, in essence forcing them to decide not whether to defend their innocence but to do a calculus of what is likely to be more expensive, paying now a fixed sum or fighting it and potentially having to pay a great deal more along the way (remember, those lawyers aren’t free, even if you do win and the RIAA has to pay your fees, you still have to pay them first and hope for reimbursement). So, what the RIAA is hoping is not that you’ll stop file sharing but that you’ll pay the settlement so their lawyers can get paid.
— J Nov 19, 09:21 AM #
Its funny how righteous everyone is about these “thieves” yet I would bet most of you are guilty of some sort of theft yourself, if not using your employers property for personal use or “stealing time” from them,maybe its illegal cable tv, ore one of the thousand other ways society cheats, steals and takes the easy way out for personal gain or convinience. I am sure when most of you were college aged you shared albums, made dupes of them on cassette, and probably all of the other things you now look down upon in today’s youth.
— Metallica Nov 19, 09:37 AM #
This entire discussion just proves that the copyright laws are in severe need of overhaul.
— Richard Nov 19, 09:51 AM #
I was a thief – when I was a child. Then I grew up and learned that everything has cost. Pay it before or pay it after, there is a cost. These students are paying now because they did not pay earlier. Sorry – no sympathy here.
One further note, Ms. Jodi Thesing-Ritter’s continued employment at her institution should be seriously reviewed for suggesting that society be willing to accept thievery on the part of these students because the loss to society by their leaving school is greater than the loss of income to recording artists.
If I were a person prone to profanity to describe utter tripe, I would employ it here and now. I am not. I will say though, that the attitude displayed by an associate dean of student development is reprehensible and certainly does not indicate that any students with whom she interacts are getting much in the way of the “development.”
— 2B Nov 19, 12:42 PM #
As an admin, I resent the amount of time and university resources that the RIAA sucks up with their legal, but for me, ethically problematic tactics. Whether or not these students should be classified as thieves or not, whether they are actually guilty or not matters less to me than the RIAA’s interference in building a better educated society (which can include the ethical development of these young adults) for their financial profit.
— Matt Nov 19, 01:02 PM #
What students aren’t hip to are things like Rhapsody, where for $15 per month you have complete access to their massive music library—-like having your own record store. And the sound quality is much better than you can get through file sharing and without the risk of viruses. I suppose to a college student $15 saved is $15 more beer, but still….as a longtime music lover, this is beyond what I ever hoped for, and it got me to stop using filesharing.
— Darma Not Drama Nov 19, 03:09 PM #
What happened to innocent until proven guilty? RIAA tactics amount to vigilantism with a healthy dose of extortion. Those of you so willing to condone RIAA behavior should remember that if this kind of precedent is allowed, your favorite questionable behavior could be the next to have a presumption of guilt because of its relationship to something criminal such as smoking pot, DWI, illegal gambling, driving in excess of speed limit, child porn, etc.
— CW Nov 19, 04:14 PM #
To #8: Please review your facts. Settlement letters and court cases are based on actual file transfers. DMCA notices are based on shared folders. So if the student receives a pre-settlement letter, they shared the file with someone.
Financial gain is irrelevant, it is against the law and current law allows for those fines. Also, if they were sharing 1 file, they most likely already filled an entire hard drive, so it is not unlikely that they shared 300 files, which would give you a 10 to 1 penalty ratio.
Students are given the benefit of a day in court, if they don’t take the settlement, they get to state their case in court.
#14: yes we all did it and if we got caught we had to pay the piper. If you steal from your employer and you get caught and get fired or arrested, is that excessive?
#19: wow is that a stretch!
I applaud most of the comments, it is nice to have intelligent people with a regard for our society’s well being as a whole commenting rather than the knee-jerk let’s give everything away for free and stick it to the man types.
— Bill Nov 20, 12:20 PM #
I’m not a big fan of people who drive at excessive speeds, and I believe that they deserve to get speeding tickets. But I think $100-$200 is a fair penalty for speeding, not $1000-2000 dollars. A typical CD costs $10-15, a typical download costs $1 per song. I’m curious how many songs the students who were fined by the RIAA actually downloaded, and if this number is anywhere near commensurate with the fine levied.
— Mark Smith Nov 23, 09:35 PM #
It’s logical to compare the illegal downloading of music to stealing of other tangible items, but there is a perceived grey area when illegal downloads are concerned. Where did this grey area come from? #21 compared piracy to speeding, and I agree with that analogy: Most people exceed the speed limit at some point or another, and when a ticket is issued, we usually are willing to admit that we deserve the ticket. Piracy should be no different. I also agree that the $3000 fine may be too steep- although I firmly believe that a fine for illegal downloading should be levied for those who break the law. If this is a standardized fine, I’d like to see students (and all consumers) better educated about the consequences of their decisions. Some of the money RIAA is collecting needs to go toward ad campaigns that clearly say, “Do this and you’ll be fined $3000”.
— Christin Nov 29, 01:22 PM #