July 2, 2008
Founder of Textbook-Download Site Says Offering Free Copyrighted Textbooks Is Act of 'Civil Disobedience'
Publishers see Web sites like Textbook Torrents, which offer free downloads of textbooks without authorization, as part of a growing problem of piracy that could potentially threaten their industry. But the founder of Textbook Torrents calls his actions “civil disobedience” against “the monopolistic business practices” of textbook publishers.
The site’s founder, who asked to remain anonymous for fear of legal action against him, talked to The Chronicle over an Internet phone call last night and defended his creation, though he described it as operating in a “legal gray area.” He said he is an undergraduate at a college outside of the United States, though he would not name the institution or country, and that he operates the Web site from there.
His biggest complaint: that textbooks are just too expensive, and that prices climb each year. “We’re showing both students and textbook publishers that this isn’t acceptable anymore,” he said. “A lot of users are absolutely fed up with the system.” He said he views the 64,000 registered users of his textbook-download site as votes against that system.
The site started last January, but except for an author or two writing to ask that their books be removed, no one had complained until recently, he said. Last Friday, after The Chronicle began asking publishers about the site, Pearson Education sent the site a note demanding that 78 of its titles be removed. The site quickly complied. “We don’t have the legal muscle to fight them,” the founder said. But he added that he will press on with the site, even if such takedown requests continue. “I certainly have no intention of going anywhere.”
The site takes in some money through banner advertising, and some users have made donations, but he said Textbook Torrents is not profitable, and that the goal is simply to break even rather than to benefit financially.
The Chronicle requested an interview with officials at Pearson to talk about the site. In response, they issued the following statement by LaShonda Morris, a Web security specialist: “Pearson does monitor this and other potentially infringing websites. We have contacted this particular site and they have complied with our request to remove our copyrighted material.”
Reactions to the Web site in a Wired Campus discussion this week have been mixed.
“Perhaps if the textbooks were not $120 for mediocrity, there would be no need” for the site, said one commenter.
Others, however, called downloading textbooks theft, plain and simple. “Let’s just have anarchy where nobody pays for anything they deem ‘too expensive’ priced by the ‘rapacious textbook publishing [or any other] industry,’” said one participant in the discussion. —Jeffrey R. Young
Posted on Wednesday July 2, 2008 | Permalink |Comments
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Let him do that with his own intellectual property. Giving away other persons’ property is rather uncivil.
Landrum Kelly
— Landrum Kelly Jul 2, 05:18 PM #
I’ve heard professors laugh and brag about their kickbacks from monopolistic publishing companies. Maybe the legality is in a gray area but the ethics are plain. Publishers bring this on themselves by acting in selfish and dishonest ways, screwing over college students who are already broke. Follow the paper trail, textbooks are big money. What’s uncivil is ignoring or even supporting publishers’ actions.
— Textbook Torrent user Jul 2, 07:40 PM #
good for him. he’s encouraging innovation by hastening the day when textbook publishers slim down their bloated offerings, save countless resources, and offer more for less through e-publishing strategies. Lord knows that the music industry wouldn’t have ever gone there if not for file-sharing sites that suddenly made iTunes seem like an acceptable business model. The entrenched businesses will never change until they realize they have more to lose by not changing. I already find it easier to scan and distribute articles through PDF rather than paper. I’d surely pay a few cents to publishers for the privilege if they got their act together and came up with an easy model to do so, but no one’s going to stop me from doing it for free until they do. They couldn’t defeat the xerox machine either, and I seem to recall most academic departments having one of those around…
— a Jul 3, 12:46 AM #
When you look at the rate of ‘updating’ textbooks with inconsequential changes, which nevertheless force a new generation of students to buy the new book, not a used one, it is obvious that publishers regard textbooks as an income stream. I admit to some doubt that changes of this sort are genuinely intellectual property, rather than devices to keep the income stream flowing.
— cj Jul 3, 07:12 AM #
He’s a thief. He’s stealing other people’s property. Anyone who uses the site is also a thief. And blaming publishers and professors because of their business practices is no different (except in degrees, obviously) than blaming a rape victim for wearing a short skirt. Stealing is stealing. . .trying to put a populist face on it is pathetic rationale for taking something that doesn’t belong to you. Like those who steal music or movies, stealing textbooks is not the moral equivalent of stealing bread to feed a starving family. People who steal music, movies, and yes, textbooks deserve extremely stiff fines as a minimum and this clown needs a lengthy prison sentence.
And yes. . .in case I was too subtle. . . if you are downloading textbooks without paying for them, you are a common thief. Not an intelletual. . .not a populist warrior. . .not even very smart. Just a common thief.
— Bill Jul 3, 07:44 AM #
Textbook companies need to clean up their act before pointing fingers. The spurious new editions mentioned in a previous post is one example. Another is the practice of listing books that a publisher has no intention of printing again as temporarily out of print just to retain a claim on copyright should someone decide to copy a book that no one can really buy.
The first post refers to “intellectual property,” which is mistakenly viewed as a basic principle of law and ethics. It is neither. It is a concept promoted by publishers that is distinctly contrary to the origins of copyright law. It is also an ethically questionable concept when one considers the larger good that can be attained by a free flow of information. Copyright, as has been pointed out by historians of that concept, is constitutionally a “law of users rights” (i.e., a limited monopoly with a reasonable time frame after which materials become freely available) not a foundation for “intellectual property.”
— dr Jul 3, 08:03 AM #
It’s high time that publishers and authors work out some form of “itunes” mechanism for the publishing industry. Why can’t books be downloaded for a simple fee like music can? If the publishing industry fails to respond to the new technology, it will find itself swimming in losses, just as the recording industry has, until it concedes that we are in a new age that needs new rules. Given how inexpensive it is to propogate books electronically, there is absolutely NO reason why students should have to continue to pay exorbitant prices.
— JM Jul 3, 08:25 AM #
After decades of raping students and their parents pocketbooks, textbook suppliers and authors are finally reaping what they have sown.
Good riddance to the parasites.
It may be true that the site is illegal, but the ill will that the industry has created allows me to sit back and chuckle that they are finding technology turning the game around on them.
I am guessing that a fair number of text book authors will read this, and comment here, and they may have a different opinion, but in the larger society, we are all smiling.
— CS D Jul 3, 08:40 AM #
Moralistic ranting about theft notwithstanding, trying to stop this kind of thing is guaranteed to create more problems than it solves. I do not condone law-breaking, but this problem is systemic and needs to be addressed at that level. Require that professors purchase, from their own funds, the books they require for their students, and I’m willing to bet that the number of required texts, the frequency of new editions, and their average prices would quickly fall. Certainly, the number of pretty pictures and full-color spreads would also start to decline, as might the ‘free’ extra bells and whistles. The point is, if those who decide how to spend their students’ money had to spend their own as well, they would probably make much more careful cost-benefit assessments.
— Bob P Jul 3, 08:45 AM #
As a father of 2 college students, a teacher and an author, I see this through several lenses. Although a proper look at pricing requires an deeper discussion than such brief forums permit, the bottom line is that the used book market, in which students sell their books back to the bookstore for 20% of its purchase price (rip-off by the bookstore), and the bookstore re-sells it at 80% (again and again a rip-off) deprives the book company of revenue for developing, printing and distributing the book, deprives the author of revenue for writing the book, rips off students, and simply enriches the bookstore. If even a little of the used book revenue went back to the publisher and author, textbook prices would be 50% or less of what they are.
— Chemboy Jul 3, 09:12 AM #
Publishing is a business. If a business doesn’t make a profit for a long enough stretch of time, it experiences serious repercussions.
Once upon a time a textbook could be considered to have a lifespan of about five years on average. The first year was spent building sales, if any. If the book in fact had some success, the next couple or three years were when the up-front costs of producing and manufacturing the books were recovered, after which profit, if any, might be a possibility. The next couple of years or so, the book would tail off.
The rise of the used-book business, which some of us remember as a couple guys buying books back at the end of the semester, put paid to this system, shaky as it was. The book is sold by the publisher the first year, and then the used-book sellers sell them again—not paying any royalty to the author, of course, and the publisher sells whatever number of books the resellers can’t cover. In subsequent years it gets worse. Even the most conscientious publisher of low-cost books finds it difficult to compete with the used-book dealers, who are the true parasites. They have no production costs, no manufacturing costs, and no royalties to pay.
Publishers of course tried to respond to this, which was only natural; the principle involved is self-preservation. This led to the minimally revised $120 textbook, which is indeed a despicable monstrosity.
It’s a problem, no doubt. But in many cases, publishers are in fact doing what they can, and anyone who can get on the internet can find out any pubisher’s terms for fair-use or other duplication for classroom use. Trying to stop it would be like trying to stop the weather.
Obviously there have been abuses and problems. However, a lot of effort has gone into making low-cost books available, and before teachers or students get too self-righteous, they might stop to consider that they are ripping off the author, not “just” the publisher, of the work they’re stealing. Those production costs include copyediting, typesetting, proofreading, illustrating, indexing, and all the other expenses before the printing presses roll. Manufacturing is the cost of making the physical books. You’d be appalled how little is left after P&M is recovered . . . before royalties are paid.
The fact is, high gas or food prices do not make it okay to steal gas or food. Hard as it is to believe, the entire book publishing industry is about the size of a medium division of IBM, and it’s made up of people who care more about making good books than they do about getting rich.
Publishers are like teachers in one way at least. If money were our main concern, we’re sure as hell be doing something else for a living. But tacky as it is to talk about money, without it, we’re gone.
Maybe we won’t be missed. Maybe the amateurs will do a better job. Just like Wikipedia is doing a better job than Britannica.
— dan Jul 3, 09:32 AM #
I have worked closely with publishers on several products, I have close friends who author nationally distributed textbooks, and I wrote the book for one of the courses I teach—I have it printed locally and students buy it for cost. I support Chemboy and Dan in their statements about how the used book market affects pricing. This is why publishers will sell single-use books (no cover, and three-hole punched) for up to half off. None of my author friends are getting rich off of their texts and they do spend a lot of effort on updates, which I do agree are driven by the need to get a new book in the cycle. After the first semester, the royalty checks drop practically to zero.
Like all businesses, I am sure there are some business practices in textbook publishing that are questionable. However, my personal experience tends to align with Dan’s description of people trying to deliver a good product to a market they care about.
As faculty we can help. We can ask publishers about price and move to lower price alternatives. I know this sometimes requires additional planning, but being completely price-incentive only supports increasing costs. Please ask your publishing reps about cost and if lower-cost alternatives exist.
— Jeff Jul 3, 10:13 AM #
I condone neither theft nor price-gouging. The latter often results in the former, as is the case here.
In my humanities classes, I am making every effort to direct students to readily available primary sources rather than $120 re-tellings of the same events with brand new covers.
When this can be done appropriately, this not only saves students money, but helps them develop sorely needed research skills.
— EJB Jul 3, 10:17 AM #
International editions of textbooks are less than half the price of U.S. editions and still this little creep complains. If we would stop basing all “value” on a Wal-Mart inflicted pricing scheme, perhaps we wouldn’t be deciding for ourselves how much something should cost. Yes, textbooks are pricey. That’s a given, but so are the little toys college students think they have a “right” to these days like Iphones and Ipods and a new digital camera every year. And then there are the parents who have to have THEIR toys and spoil these same children who are stealing textbooks at this site, which, as you see, is NOT hosted by an American, but rather another foreigner illegally copying copyrighted materials. Now there’s a surprise. Yes, textbooks are, from what I understand, being reissued in many cases just to keep the revenue stream moving, but where do you think publishers get the money for online products they create to accompany these textbooks, the online crap that’s meant to keep these bored students entertained. Going to college it a JOB and this job, which means a more promising future, has a price—it’s called SACRIFICE. Don’t blame a commodity for horning in on your playtime and your toys.
— RO Jul 3, 10:27 AM #
Referring to #10. I have always wondered why textbook publishers do not get into the used-book market. They could all jointly establish a used-book unit instead of each company having its own. Or, they could operate book stores on college campuses. I have four children in expensive universities and I feel the pain of spending $1000 or more every semester on each student just for textbooks. But I do understand that book publishers are businesses that provide jobs and help create intellectual properties and wealth. Textbook prices could be reduced by up to 20% if professors would stop asking for ancillaries. Instead of asking for solutions manuals, let them solve the problems; instead of asking for power-point lecture notes, let them prepare their own lectures (by the way this is the best way to be an excellent teacher). Publishers could also give instructors pdf bound copies of new texts instead of regular bound copies. Creative ways of cutting costs must be found. Activities of the free- download web site are illegal.
— Sol Jul 3, 10:34 AM #
Claiming civil disobedience doesn’t mean that you aren’t civilly liable. Or as a boss of mine useta say: “If you play, you gotta pay.”
— Al Jul 3, 10:49 AM #
It is obvious that the complexities dealing with the ethnical and financial issues of producing and publishing textbooks will not be solved by this “service”. What would be great would be some expanded melding of traditional printing of textbooks with modern digital technology.
I would love to see an option of purchasing textbooks in printed and/or digital or some eBook form and priced in such a way that students would be encouraged to put their entire semester’s or more worth of books on their portable computer and/or eBook reader or maybe just a portable hard drive. It would also be great if they were produced in such a way that it was easy for the students and instructors to add notes, annotations, and bookmarks to their copy. Being able to share these notes would also be nice, but probably the most problematic aspect. While the content of many texts I use are available online through the publisher’s website, in my experience, one still needs to first buy a full priced paper version of the text before getting electronic access.
The publishers need to make a profit and authors need to be compensated, but is selling an expensive print version the only way to do business? I would like to see the textbook publishers come up with a pricing scheme for books they would sell in digital form like Amazon is doing with its Kindle eBook reader. Perhaps this would help spur the development of even better formats and eBook readers.
— SPL Jul 3, 11:29 AM #
This person needs to peruse a good textbook on civil disobedience.
— Patrick Gorman Jul 3, 12:23 PM #
I just want to point out that Chemboy and Dan are correct… but that people should note the implications:
1. Bookstores are ripping students and their families off in a huge way — less so the publishers. I don’t know that students are even getting 20% of the price they paid when they sell it back…
And the enormous profits the bookstores make! They only pay the publisher the first time they buy a book, but then resell it at an enormous profit 4 or 5 times — and at colleges and universities, the bookstores work diligently to create disincentives for students to buy the material elsewhere.
2. Students should try to sell their textbooks to each other… check out the textbook market that the student-run Corp at Georgetown University runs! Students don’t pay 80% and get 20%… it’s a win-win for everyone. That system could be managed online very easily.
The bookstores would stop making huge profits, and I bet that publishers could eventually lower their prices again… but most importantly, students wouldn’t be paying nearly so much for their books when they buy them used, and they’d get more of their money back when they sold them.
Publishers demand that their authors revise more frequently than makes sense, and they add on all the bells and whistles to stop students from being able to get used copies because they need to recoup their losses.
A textbook author in Psychology once wrote an editorial about these issues, and related how, the first semester that his new edition was out, the bookstore had mostly used copies. He couldn’t figure out how there could even be used copies yet…
It’s all nuts. From the professor’s end, textbook writing isn’t valued toward promotion or tenure, so the primary rewards are the belief that you have written a better text than what’s available for your students, the satisfaction that comes from seeing your name on a book, and the royalties. But because textbook writing isn’t valued as scholarship in the tenure and promotion process, the time spent writing a textbook is beyond their work as professors, and they should get fairly compensated for that work.
I really blame the bookstores (which used to be owned by the colleges and universities, but are now almost all commercial bookstores). And I encourage students to buy from each other. I also help students who have the earlier editions of the textbook that is required by identifying the changes since that edition…
Ultimately, though, I agree with one point made by those I otherwise disagree with: The textbook publishing businesses have to adapt in ways that become more cost-conscious.
— Ray Jul 3, 12:38 PM #
While theft may be theft, price-gouging is price-gouging.
When I was in college, I went to a community college. My tuition for a 14 credit semester was $1680. My books? $900. (Two classes were musical performance; the sheet music came from archive of the college, or was provided. Loss or damage was to be paid by the student at semester’s end.) Does anyone else have a problem with that ratio? I did. Particularly when going to school full time meant part-time work, or none at all depending on class time.
Now let me see.. my job paid me $8 an hour.. I worked 15-20 hours a week during a single semester…so around $120 per week, hours depending. I could pay my tuition and my books off after .. mm.. 21.5 months, if I didn’t want to eat or do anything ELSE, like pay my parents back for the car I drove to and from class, or the insurance/other car fees…
And this was back in 1997.
And all of my books, save for one (new edition, required) were bought used.
Students have enough on their plates to deal with, considering tuition, room/board for those not near home, other bills, and other obligations – we’re not talking TOYS here. We’re talking things needed to live.
Not everyone has the luxury of having Mommy and Daddy pay for their education.
Providing E-solutions to the rediculous book prices may not help a whole lot when you look at it straight out in numbers, but I will guarantee you that students who work for their education will breathe a sigh of thanks and relief when they realize that’s another ~$1000-$2000 they will have to pay bills that year.
Going back to my first statement – by price gouging, how are the publishers/bookstores/whatever sells the books for such rediculous prices NOT theives for robbing the students trying to get by?
— KH Jul 3, 12:46 PM #
The textbook publishing industry is one of the least ethical in American publishing generally. Because of the captive market, the textbook publishers offer their product at premium prices. Most textbooks exhibit poor prodution qualities from outline to actual layout. For the scholars that produce them, they are often not fully compensated, since a textbook publisher will hire two or three teams for one textbook, then choose the one that tests the best. They should not complain that their product is scanned and offered for free on a website, since they produce new editions every year or two. This is intended as planned obsolescence to keep their market.
The textbook publishers know full well that their revenues are often obtained from student loans and parental income support of students. So the high prices reflect the textbook publishers feeding at the public trough via federally subsidized students loans.
— A Publisher Jul 3, 01:12 PM #
To re-cast the discussion: Let’s take an 1100-page science textbook that is well-illustrated, requires copyright permissions from many primary sources, is reviewed 3-5 times by 20 faculty per chapter ($$), is printed (or made ready for e-posting), advertised, distributed, re-sold as used, etc. A total cost for such a text is, give or take, $1 million from conception to production. This includes salesperson time and mileage, clerical staff time, editorial staff time, indirect costs, etc. Given all this: If the typical price for this new text is, say, $175, and that is too high, then: What SHOULD such a book cost? And what is the basis for selecting that particular price?
— Chemboy Jul 3, 01:33 PM #
Responding to #10, et al:
Perhaps it’s time for someone who actually knows something about bookstores to explain about buyback and the used book market, because all of the posters so far are operating under some pretty large misconceptions.
Buyback values for books are driven by demand, which is in turn driven by the behavior of you, the professors. That’s right, you determine whether your students get “ripped off” at buyback or not, not the evil rapacious bookstore. If a book is adopted again for the next term, most bookstores pay back 50% for as many copies as they need. But if we don’t have that adoption for you, buyback value is determined by the big used book companies based on national demand and where a book is in its edition cycle. If it’s in high demand and pretty new to the market, it could be worth 35% of the new price, if its in lower demand or getting close to a new edition, the value drops.
So, when Joe Student brings back his $100 book and we need it again, he gets $50 and the book goes out on our shelf as a used copy for $75. That $25 pays for our rent, utilities, labor, computer system (i.e. OVERHEAD which online peer-peer sellesrs do not have) and any additional income either goes into reserve for future improvements or “rainy days,” or goes back to our institution. On the other hand, if Joe’s professor didn’t get around to turning a book adoption in – or, as is more often the case, his department has not been able to assign professors to classes yet because of budget uncertainties – his book might only be worth $30, or $20 ( or nothing if the new edition is out or due out soon). Now, instead of going out on our shelf and saving one of our students money the next quarter, the book gets shipped off to the used book company to be resold to some other campus. OR, and this is the killer, 2 weeks later the department finally actually makes class assignements and it now turns out we need the book after all. We call the used book company, and if they still have Joe’s book they sell it BACK to us, for $50 – plus freight and handling, on top of which we incur additional labor and processing costs physically receiving the order and paying the invoice. The book has now had an all expenses paid road trip to the Midwest and back, costing both our store and poor Joe money we’d both rather have kept on campus.
Speaking as the person who actually has to sell these books to the students and their parents – and as a parent with children due to enter college in the next few years – I’m not going to disagree with the proposition that books cost too much and that the system as it exists now is flawed. But it’s simplistic to point fingers at any one group – publishers, bookstores, used book resellers, even faculty and label them as evil/greedy/whatever. That only gets in the way of thinking creatively about what IS the best way to both ensure that high quality, engaging, rigorous course materials are created, and that those materials actually reach students. Maybe interactive digital books will be the answer, or collaborative wikitexts, maybe it will be wii-courses. I’m open to work with the faculty at my institution to try anything that might work, and most of my colleagues in other stores would say the same.
— TextbookManager@WestCoastStatePolyU Jul 3, 02:42 PM #
Just to clear up a few inaccuracies in some of the comments related to this article.
First, Chemboy and Sol blamed the cost of college texts on the used book market and basically accused college stores of price gouging. This is certainly not borne out by the facts.
The assertion that the cost of new textbooks is inflated by the sale of used books is fundamentally flawed. College stores sell used books because students demand them. Used books fill an important niche in the overall textbook market — in 2006-07 used book sales accounted for 16.5% of all college store sales — a free-market service that is already providing many students the price relief that pending government legislation is attempting to provide.
Secondly, there are many variables that go into determining the price a bookstore can pay for a used book: whether or not it has been assigned by a professor for the following term, the timing of the book’s adoption by a professor, and whether the store has filled its quota of books needed. Generally, under ideal circumstances, a college store will buy back used copies in good condition for about 50% of the retail price. They are then sold for about 25% less than new books.
Thirdly, I can assure you that college bookstores are NOT “enriching” themselves. On average, college store margins on new textbooks are below retail industry standards. In fact, the 22.7% average gross margin charged by college stores on new textbooks is significantly below those charged by other retailers frequented by college students, such as sporting goods stores and clothing shops. Gross margins on used textbooks are a bit higher (an industry average of 35.9%) due to increased operating expenses.
From that margin, the college store must pay overhead costs, such as light, heat and staff salaries — many of which are paid to part-time student workers. Only 4.5 cents of every dollar paid for a new textbook can be considered “profit” for the store, and a portion of that is returned to the institution in the form of scholarships or in-kind donations to groups on campus.
For more information, including tips for saving money on textbooks, please visit http://www.nacs.org/public/nacs/mediaroom.asp .
Charles Schmidt
Director of Public Relations
National Association of College Stores
Oberlin, OH
440-775-7777 ext. 2351
— Charlie Schmidt Jul 3, 03:30 PM #
Thanks, Charles, for injecting some fact into the discussion. From the energetic discussion above, I think we can see that a) students and parents are legitimately concerned about the price of text books, b) finding alternatives or an evolving business model may be appropriate. Discussion of what can and should be done is good. The bottom line is that many text books can never be “inexpensive” — due to their niche, etc . . .
Ultimately, the web site is violating copy rights — there is no gray area and publishers should be sending cease and desist letters. Then, perhaps, the industry — authors, publishers, bookstores, school — should sit down and think about how best to make sure textbook costs don’t drive students away from school or their parents to the poorhouse.
— babylawyer Jul 3, 03:52 PM #
That the operator of this site claims to be engaging in “civil disobedience” is laughable. Any person familiar with the history of that concept realizes that civil disobedience involves a purposeful breaking of the law to prompt social change, but it is ineffective morally unless the civil disobedient steps up to the plate and accepts punishment for the “illegal” action. Hiding behind the anonymity of the Web is contrary to acting in the true spirit of civil disobedience. It is a total copout.
As for the ills of the college textbook industry, perhaps the best analysis overall was given by Cambridge sociologist John Thompson in his “Books in the Digital Age” (Polity Press, 2005). He identifies a major part of the problem with this market as the simple fact that the ultimate buyers of the product, students, have traditionally had no voice in the process. Professors choose which books to assign, and they don’t have to pay the price themselves. The spiral of used books displacing more of the market, resulting in more frequent editions and ever higher prices, shows that this is a very troubled industry that could be on the point of collapse, especially since it is now dominated by a very small handful of very large conglomerate publishers.
Sites like Textbook Torrents could provide the “tipping point” to push it over the edge. While there are some commentators on this article who would seem to relish that prospect, they are not thinking rationally about what will come next. I assure you it will not be the Nirvana of cheaply available electronic texts that they seem to think it is easy to bring about. Students may find themselves with much less available of high quality than they have today. Would everyone be happy with the world of just Wikipedia sites substituting for textbooks?
As for the legalities, this is no “gray area” under U.S. law. The site operator should bone up on his legal reading and find out about the No Electronic Theft Act passed by Congress in 1997, which clearly makes illegal the kind of operation that he or she is running, whether or not any profit is being made.
— Sandy Thatcher Jul 3, 05:59 PM #
Sandy, perhaps you would like to take a closer look at civil disobedience. It involves acceptance of punishment as part of the act, but it does not involve mailing a letter to the authorities with “Here is my name and address, please come and arrest me,” written on it. I don’t know about effectiveness, but Geekman certainly seems to have gotten word about the place (and its cause) out pretty well without suffering immediate personal repercussions. Just because he isn’t in serious legal trouble at the moment doesn’t mean he doesn’t accept that he may be in the future.
You will also find that the legality of BitTorrent is rather less black-and-white than you would like to believe. Unauthorized sharing of copyrighted material is illegal in the United States, yes, but BitTorrent trackers like his don’t store copyrighted material; individual users do. “Making available” is a tenuous argument at best.
To everyone else: this is an interesting discussion about the “meet in the middle” idea mentioned in another article.
— Somebody Jul 4, 02:40 AM #
The “legality” of Textbook Torrents’ activity is far less uncertain than you might think. The “making available” concept, referred to in another post, applies to individuals who are sharing files – not the web site or P2P network that is used to facilitate the file sharing activity. Additionally, TT’s claim that they don’t actually “host” files does amount to a valid defense.
Textbook Torrents fits the mold of Napster and appears to be a classic case of contributory copyright infringement. Liability exists where, “one who, with knowledge of the infringing activity, induces, causes or materially contributes to the infringing conduct of another, may be held liable as a ‘contributory’ infringer.” Put differently, liability exists where an individual engages in “personal conduct that encourages or assists the infringement.”
While the cost of textbooks is a concern for many, promoting wholesale theft of another’s copyrighted works is deplorable.
— Bill Jul 4, 09:21 AM #
Additionally, TT’s claim that they don’t actually “host” files does not amount to a valid defense.
— Bill Jul 4, 09:50 AM #
There is an alternative to what many believe – for good reason – is a broken system. Choose two acceptable text books from different publishers and put a request out for bids with terms that make sense. Choose the lowest bidder. Part of the current problem is that that the professors choose the text and the students are stuck with the consequences of the decision. The free market is not the problem but rathera possible solution.
— Raymond P. Vito Jul 9, 03:28 PM #
I am amazed by the amount of BS I read here: publishing books nowadays cost near to nothing … indeed there is no longer need to print and distribute anything in the physical world. The cost of publishing a book in PDF is close to zero (not counting the creative effort of the authors). And if one doesn’t want to pay the PDF writer license, then he/she can use any of the open source editors, which are as good as any commercial software.
Publishing companies are no longer needed!!
Especially for textbooks, it really makes no sense whatsoever to actually print them, since updates are way easier to distribute in electronic format than on a printed book.
With e-book, if students wanted to print their textbooks, they still could do so by simply paying for the necessary printing paper at any printing service, it would be their choice.
The reality is that the only way to effectively make people pay for a book (meaning controlling how much they have to pay) is to distribute the book only in printed format, otherwise (in electronics format) it would be very hard to control the distribution and therefore the price, given that there is no way to prevent software cracks.
So, it’s all about controlling artificially a market, where the buyer has no choice and the publisher can make any price it wants … $100 books don’t sell but only because the buyers have no choice. Call it a lesson in “monopolistic business practices”.
The reality is that the publishing industry is destined to disappear … meet the Kindle. … it’s a matter of time. Of course, there are plenty of executives in the publishing industry who are very worried about their jobs … they should … unless they are already in their late fifties, they will not retire from their current employer … you can bet about it, ask Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos … see waht he says ;-)
— Paolo Bernasconi Jul 11, 03:04 PM #
1.) Copying is not the same thing as theft, especially in the digital world of artificial scarcity.
2.) Copyright law may be just that— the law, but the ethics of adhering or breaking it are subjective.
3.) It is well-nigh impossible to live in this day and age without breaking some copyright law, even unintentionally.
4.) Sense of fairness is a two way street. Holders of copyright may be appalled at their materials being distributed and made available without permission, but students are equally appalled at being charged an arm and a leg for their books.
5.) Many textbooks editions are simply old news, old information, just reformatted. If I am taking a physics class, the material I need will be mostly public domain… I can pick up Newton and read the translation for myself. No fancy graphics or “multi-million dollar conception” needed. Much of the information in basic physics, chemistry, and even english textbooks can be found in public domain under the original authors. We are essentially paying for a) problems/solutions included in the book, and b) regurgitations/interpretations and broken chunks by the authors of the textbook.
Oh, and I can’t forget the last one:
6) Some people believe that “intellectual property” is an oxymoron. Remember, even the letters you type with, the words you use, and the grammar you used to format it, was once someone else’s idea.
— XS Jul 17, 07:08 PM #