April 27, 2007
A MySpace Photo Costs a Student a Teaching Certificate
What shall you do with a drunken sailor? Well, if you're Millersville University of Pennsylvania, you deny her a degree, and you get sued for doing so.
Stacy Snyder, an aspiring teacher who is now 27 years old, was set to graduate last year from Millersville's School of Education. But just days before commencement, campus officials discovered Ms. Snyder's MySpace page 
-- which featured a photograph of the student wearing a pirate hat and sipping from a plastic cup. The picture's caption read "Drunken Pirate."
Although Ms. Snyder was of legal drinking age when the photo was taken, Millersville administrators deemed the image "unprofessional," and they refused to award her an education degree and the teaching certificate that came along with it. (Instead they issued her a degree in English.)
Now Ms. Snyder has filed a federal lawsuit asking Millersville to issue her education degree and teaching certificate. The former student also seeks $75,000 in compensatory damages from the university, according to the Intelligencer Journal of Lancaster, Pa. Millersville officials declined to comment, the newspaper said. --Brock Read
Advance technology has taken over. Ten years ago, no one had ever heard of myspace.com. Now, its the chat room and photo book for everyone. Personally, I think the young lady should receive her degree, if she earned it. Its not fair for her to attend the university and earn the degree and it not be awarded to her. Give the woman her degree.
— Kimberly Chambers Apr 28, 11:14 PM #
This is absolutely nuts. That picture is, in no way, “unprofessional.” People need to stand up for this girl. If we don’t, stupid codes like this will ruin the dreams of many in America.
As a member of the “soon to graduate” age group, I have seen MUCH WORSE on 90% of Facebook/MySpace profiles.
This woman was robbed and deserves restitution.
— Concerned Citizen Apr 29, 01:21 AM #
She is only suing them for $75,000? That is far to little for the damage they are attempting to cause her. The loss of earnings alone is more. The Dean that did this should be fired for poor judgement.
— Mark Apr 29, 01:45 AM #
She was denied her degree and teaching certificate for THAT picture and a funny caption? We NEED teachers with a sense of humor!
The “big brother” type(s) at her university, on the other hand, should have THEIR credentials examined very closely, with an eye toward dismissal.
Best wishes in your career, Stacy
— Zev Farkas Apr 29, 05:12 AM #
So if the dean is seen at a local restaurant drinking a bottle of beer or a glass of wine, should they lose their job?
Too much already! There must have been some personal reasons. Shame on you Dean!
Hopefully you will lose your job for costing the school all of the money for this lawsuit.
— dave Apr 29, 08:36 AM #
I think that this is a violation of her right to freedom of speach (or in this case expression). Posting a picture that shows her drinking out of a cup (not even a beer bottle or can) is not inappropriate. I can see a lot worse on TV than that picture.
— William Jennings Apr 29, 02:37 PM #
The morality police strikes again. You can have your own morality, but we’ll punish you for it. We’ll interpret the unwritten rules for you, and we’ll let you know when you’ve violated them. Now go and have a good life in the land of the free…
— ya Apr 29, 05:16 PM #
How do they know SHE was actually drunk?
— MB Apr 29, 05:26 PM #
Ms. Snyder should be given the deed to Millersville University by the time this suit reaches any conclusion! This University was way out of line.
FIRST: Degrees are awarded on the completion of requirements NOT based on personal opinions from sanctimonious, pompous, imperious, pseudo intellectual, mediocre academics !
SECOND:At the time of the photo Ms.Snyder was FAR FROM UNDER AGE at 25.
THIRD: The university has NO knowledge regarding the contents of the cup!
FOURTH:Using their warped logic they could have denied Ms. Snyder her degree based on her support of PIRATES!
FIFTH:ALL those opposing Ms. Snyder should be made to wear dunce caps while presenting her with a check for a HUGE settlement AND announcing that not only will they award her the degree she earned but, the university will endow a permanent scholarship at Millersville to be named the Stacey Snyder Teachers Scholarship also naming Ms. Snyder as a permanent member of the recipient selection committee!!!
— lee Apr 29, 06:31 PM #
It sure makes you wonder about the intelligence of the people running the Millersville University of Pennsylvania.
— Fred Apr 29, 11:16 PM #
This is absolute lunacy on the part of the University. I hope she wins enough money to force this school to close. Seems they don’t mind PROFITING off a drunken pirate, just don’t want to have to admit they did??? Absolutely, SUE THE BASTARDS for every single penny they’ve got. We don’t need such judgmental institutes in higher education or at any other level for that matter.
— ASW Apr 29, 11:22 PM #
The dean is either pursuing a personal vendetta against this woman or is a complete teetotaling prude. She needs to get a life or retire.
— KT Apr 29, 11:49 PM #
Umm…K. Chambers, 10 years ago MySpace didn’t exist (it’s about 4 years old) – probably why no one had heard of it back then…
Of all the dumb photos my students have on MySpace and FaceBook, this would rank as one of the tamest (though I’ve seen funnier). As for why $75,000? Given the other elements, that’s the only way this would get into federal court – anything less and it’s a state court issue. Props to Miss Snyder for not overdoing the lawsuit – it gives her even more credibility and shows just how dumb the university is acting.
— KAF Apr 30, 01:08 AM #
A pirate hat, a cheap plastic cup, and a photo meant for mySpace… what else is she supposed to be drinking? certainly not apple juice.
I’m glad the school spotted a potential problem-teacher and acted in the better interest of the students that she would eventually be influencing. Even if she wins the lawsuit, hopefully she’ll still be denied her certificate.
When television and parents won’t teach morality, schools are the last hope for many children.
— blah Apr 30, 06:54 AM #
When did university officials start to regulate the internet and who gets to graduate? Last I checked what I do on my own personal time and LEGALLY is my own business. Now granted the student should have made the picture private because everyone is on myspace and facebook and you do want to maintain a professional image, but for her not to be awarded the degree that she worked for and rightfully earned is crazy.
— AAJ Apr 30, 07:50 AM #
“Blah” is an appropriate name for #14! That’s the dumbest remark I can imagine.
Do you think some of our very best teachers don’t drink? What about your priest? Should he too be denied the pulpit for drinking?
First off, she’s allowed to drink under the law. Second, there’s no evidence that she was in fact drunk. Third, even if she was drunk, that’s not illegal unless she drove (of which there is also no evidence).
We can’t keep mentally ill people from buying guns but we’re now going to not license potentially wonderful teachers for “appearing” to be drunk?
And if you think television should teach morality, you shouldn’t be walking around loose!
— Rob Apr 30, 07:58 AM #
Go ahead and give the woman her education degree and certificate. She will have enough problems finding an employer.
— t.mc Apr 30, 08:17 AM #
Is it just me, or are Education Programs across the country getting even more loony? In my state students are forced to take content courses (not just education courses) if they are doing lateral entry, even though they have an MS in the field they will be teaching in. I wouldn’t put it past some of our administrators to do something just as silly as those at Millersville. I would argue that even if the young lady in the photo was posing with a crack pipe and a syringe that the University has no right (or responsibility) to judge her ability to teach. A University’s responsibility is to provide an education — to attempt to judge the suitability of someone for an occupation based on some strict set of moral values (whose I wonder) is a step onto an unstable slope.
— Tom Apr 30, 08:24 AM #
Get real. Do you relize what you just did to your enrollment goals.
— BK Apr 30, 08:29 AM #
Perhaps the courts will provide the apparently elusive element of common sense. What the article doesn’t say is that her picture was found and reported to Millersville University by someone at Conestoga Valley High School, where she was student teaching at the time. They demanded punishment or threatened to accept no more MU student teachers in the future. Shame on their actions, too.
— Bruce Apr 30, 08:31 AM #
I’ve reviewed the picture and the details of the incident carefully. First of all, there are no evidence of “non professional” behavior in this picture, and/or in any other reported behavior. Second, even if they were, and THERE ARE NONE, it is not of the school’s authority to determine constraints on the individual’s free time.
I believe that 75,000 is far under-estimating the damage caused to the student. I would try something like 10 times this amount so that the school’s officials would carefully reconsider their decision, grant the degree, and compensate the student for her salary loss and any longitudninal damages to her reputation.
— Jonnie Apr 30, 08:32 AM #
Fire the dean, the university president and the board of trustees. Then make an example of the university and award millions of dollars in damages. This crap has got to stop.
— David Apr 30, 09:04 AM #
I’m a damn fine teacher and a damn fine drunk, too. As long as the twain shall never meet, any school administration can shove off.
— James Apr 30, 09:08 AM #
# 14! you are ridiculous! go back into your cave where you belong. the university has NO RIGHT to with-hold her certificate. i know plenty of teachers, priests, government officials, as well as influental people in history that have drank. it is clear the dean has something against this student and i hope stacy wins enought money to close the school. and for the dean? just remember when you retire…stick to water. the red hat society or the nursing home where you will be spending your last days of your life may deny you admittance. fight it stacy! it is unfortunate that sometimes older people have nothing better to do than to complain about the younger generations. i think that maybe you should take the dean for a night out on the town.
— andrew Apr 30, 09:49 AM #
Shiver me timbers! I’d force the unversity president to walk the plank
— Randy Apr 30, 09:55 AM #
I want to know how campus officials “discovered” her MySpace page. It’s disturbing to me to think there are people in higher education who might be spending their time googling or otherwise searching out students on the internet.
— Erin Apr 30, 10:03 AM #
I could see this if the school were a private institution with a specific code of conduct, but this is a public university. Exactly what standard of the college’s code of conduct did she violate?
— Bill Apr 30, 10:17 AM #
School officals need to get a handle on their ethics. The technology age is so problematic in that I have seen department chairs google job applicants and also look on professor rating sites before they have even met a candidate. Many times, they believe what they read and such leaves candidates out of a job. I wonder where their accountability lies? If they were not on the sites themselves, they wouldn’t find such things. Can we refuse to hire them? Take away their degrees? Fire them?
— c Apr 30, 10:18 AM #
Arrrrrh! Better a pirate (the student) than a lunatic (the administrator)!
— Full Prof Apr 30, 10:20 AM #
In defense of the University, please keep in mind that we have heard only one side of the story. Perhaps more substantail reasons kept Miss Snyder from receiving her teaching certificate. Let’s not rush to judgment until we hear from the “other side”.
— MU Alum Apr 30, 10:29 AM #
i’m a conduct officer at a college that cares about morality and student behavior 24 hours a day.
the caption is a tad unprofessional, but no more so than american culture. tackiness, gawdiness and hedonism are where our culture is at at present.
that the student lacked concern for image in posting personal ads isn’t worth much more than a chat. even i’m a little shocked.
all that said… i cannot fathom that Millersville gave any sort of notice regarding unprofessional conduct clauses, or that harmless messages that imply drinking to the point of intoxication would invalidate degree progress.
and i’d also be surprized if Millersville likewise screened all of their candidates.
— DB Apr 30, 10:29 AM #
As a dean of a College of Education, I think the school made an error in decision making. Although the caption read one thing, there was no concrete data that would indicated that the student truly was inebriated. It may not have looked appropriate as an aspiring professional, but with a captioned picture as the only evidence of “unprofessional” behavior and thereby, the denial of an education degree and a recommendation for a teaching license, the school becomes liable for such decisions.
— Dean Doris Apr 30, 10:35 AM #
Stacy is in education — so she should probably get used to the stupidness of the Zero Tolerance mindset. Zero Tolerance, instead of common sense, is practiced throughout the public schools (elementary and secondary) and now, due to pressure from these same schools, we see this mentality slipping into colleges.
I’m afraid that the only solution to this Zero Tolerance fascism is to hire a lawyer and sue. So … good for you, Stacy!
Looking towards the future, I hope Stacy, when she becomes a school teacher, will have some sympathy for her students. I hope she will continue to fight ZT.
— Ken Smith Apr 30, 10:39 AM #
Something is missing. There is no way all the facts are being shared with us. No school would take the steps Millersville has taken simply because of a photo. What aren’t we being told?
— Ken Apr 30, 10:40 AM #
The University isn’t the only one to blame – the orginal article from the Intelligencer Journal says, “Conestoga Valley officials told the college their students wouldn’t be allowed to perform student-teacher requirements there if Snyder was not punished, according to the lawsuit.”
— Bob K Apr 30, 10:59 AM #
I suggest that everyone read the Dispositions policy PDF on the Millersville School of Education webpage. I’m not sure how this would be considered unprofessional under that policy.
— Jeff R. Apr 30, 11:20 AM #
Does ANYONE remember the last time pirates ran amuck? Their derelict character threatened commerce across the oceans and certainly laid waste to many a fine port town. I for one can only praise Millerville for forestalling another pirate’s future plans…yo, ho, ho, ho, a pirates life for me? I think not!!!!
— Charles H. Apr 30, 11:25 AM #
I agree with #37. Piracy must be stopped!
— Jay Apr 30, 11:55 AM #
The sad thing is I go to this school and I am very angered that my school is taking this stance. I hope she wins and milks the school for what its worth. They say she is promoting underaged drinking but yet she wasnt underaged and though I havent seen the pic I’m sure other people at the party were other college aged students. Here’s some irony the school Mascot is a Marauder. aka a Land Pirate that plunders and steals).
— Randall T. Apr 30, 12:45 PM #
While this particular photo does not warrant the action being taken against Ms. Miller, it is a wake-up call. There are consequences to our actions especially if you choose to chronicle them publicly. Unfortunately, many “professionals” get away with far worse conduct so we start to think we should be able to get away with it too.
— Kim Apr 30, 12:52 PM #
Let’s look for possible deeper offenses.
1) The school mascot for the Millersville Marauders used to have a scary oversized pirates’s head, and now is a gay-hued parrot with an eyepatch. (Search “mascot” on MU’s website.) Stacy was clearly obsolescent even before she graduated.
2) The anatomical models in the biology class wear thongs, which is either too much or too little, depending on your perspective. (Go to MU’s photo gallery, then scroll down.) Despite its plunging neckline, Stacy’s attire must be too conservative.
3) Stacy wears her ring on the offensive center digit, calling attention to the phallic tower on top of the Old Library. (See bas-relief in the background of Stacy’s picture.) It’s the architectural centerpiece of the campus, so MU must be embarrassed by anyone who calls attention to it.
4) She has apparently defaced a flag with either a dove or a fighter-bomber. Either bespeaks a dangerous level of extremism.
5) Mao knows what those Chinese characters along the edge of the wall actually mean.
6) Maybe there were riots on campus when they showed “Looking for Mr. Goodbar”
So many possibilities for taking offense… at MU.
Now someone else should investigate that high school!
— Bill S. Apr 30, 12:59 PM #
This involves a School of Education (allegedly), so where is the teachable moment? Seems to me the most educational result would have been a discussion with the student about the public image she wants to project in the community where she will likely be applying for work. If she is fine with being a “drunken pirate”, so be it. I have to wonder about a program that would make those decisions for their students… as well as the value of a degree from such an institution.
— MKD Apr 30, 01:04 PM #
I think the university is totally out of line. We all know that much of teenage social life depends on drinking. And the kids that Ms. Snyder would teach need to be prepared for those important years.
What if they are only in kindergarten now? They WILL become teenagers sooner or later. Learning to drink is as important for students as the three R’s and I fully think that teachers are the best people to teach you how to do it. :)
— rohitcuny Apr 30, 01:19 PM #
I guess college presidents, teachers of tenor, principals, etc better never drink in public, at holiday parties and certainly NEVER have a picture taken of themselves, it may lead a someone to do something like go to a halloween party and have a drink. This is absolutely crazy! Surley none of the people making this decision have ever drank in public where someone of age or under may have seen them. I support her 100% in suing the school.
Hays, Kansas
— Elizabeth Apr 30, 01:23 PM #
The college should teach professionalism and the importance for teachers of portraying a squeaky clean image in today’s political climate. If they did cover that and she posted this anyway, there might be grounds for a scolding. But withholding a degree? Unless this type of thing is specifically enshrined in their code of conduct, the college’s action seems ridiculous.
— jenjen Apr 30, 01:37 PM #
#42… Here, here!
The important lesson the School of Education should be promoting is the concept being personally responsible for your projected image and understanding the potential consequences of presenting a poor image of oneself. That would be a life-long positive message.
Instead, seems to me to be promoting the concepts of zero tolerance and never carefully examining a student situation before making judgment and discharging punishment.
Now, is that the image MU wants to project?
Separately, I wonder why the solution to everything is to sue someone.
If this was her only recourse (I would assume that she tried to work within the school’s appeal system first, but I don’t know that for certain), I applaud her for not asking for obscene amounts of money in her suit. It’s enough to pay her legal expenses and help cover lost income until she can find a job at a school that is mindful that all current teachers are former students… and many former students (including current teachers) have done one or two stupid things in their pasts.
If nothing else, it would seem this experience will make her one of the best teachers for helping students understand personal responsibility. That would seem to be a good quality.
— DR Apr 30, 01:41 PM #
A silly (G-rated) costume hat and a cup of what might be beer in the hand of an adult of legal drinking age is a “poor image of oneself”?
Some of these people really need to dislodge their broomsticks.
— -- J. Apr 30, 01:48 PM #
The number one killer of teenagers is drunk driving. Approximately 4,000 teenagers in the United States are killed each year in alcohol related traffic accidents. Another 85,000 are injured. Not all have been drinking: some are passengers or innocent bystanders.
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Maybe the school was acting too tough. But someone has to say to teachers, “Please do not glorify drinking.” If we can stay with that thought it would be good. Otherwise we can punish the school and continue to watch teenagers die as we wring our hands.
— rohitcuny Apr 30, 01:53 PM #
The main thing here is that a good college or university can’t have its future teachers maligning pirates… no wait… they can’t have future teachers promoting piracy…no wait… they can’t have future teachers projecting the image that college students drink alcohol… no wait… they can’t be promoting Halloween costumes…. In other words, Give us a break! (and give this student her $75,000, in gold dubloons!!!)
— Aloysius Apr 30, 02:01 PM #
“The main thing here is that a good college or university can’t have its future teachers maligning pirates… no wait… they can’t have future teachers promoting piracy…”
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This is all very funny, but maybe to the parents and friends of the 4,000 dead teenagers or of the 85,000 injured teenagers, it might be a little less funny? Please think seriously about the alcohol problem and don’t just amuse yourself by bashing the university.
— rohitcuny Apr 30, 02:25 PM #
So let’s see: She’s well over legal drinking age, she’s fully clothed, she’s not spewing profanity, she’s not dating or making out with a student, but she might be denied her degree anyway and SHE’s the one who apologized? I know it’s a sensitive time when you’re a single mom and it looks like your degree is in jeopardy, but we all have to stop apologizing when we haven’t done anything wrong! Good for her for suing over this. It’s insane, and all this hyper-political correctness (now there’s an oxymoron for you) won’t stop until we all start standing up for ourselves and those (like this woman and Don Imus) who become victims of self-righteous feeding frenzies.
— Jay from Jersey Apr 30, 02:36 PM #
Banning pictures of people drinking doesn’t promote responsible drinking – denial is not a useful policy. If the staff at Millersville are that stupid, maybe she should get a degree from someplace where faculty are better able to deal with, and provide better example in how to deal with, issues like this. Teachers need to engage with issues like teenage drinking, and if they are to have the respect of their students, they need to be honest about it. Millersville have displayed very poor judgment here, and undermined the value of all their degrees.
— Mike Cosgrave Apr 30, 03:10 PM #
“This is all very funny, but maybe to the parents and friends of the 4,000 dead teenagers or of the 85,000 injured teenagers, it might be a little less funny? Please think seriously about the alcohol problem and don’t just amuse yourself by bashing the university.”
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The point is not to be “funny” but to point out the absurdity of the whole thing. There is an important difference here. And the same goes for making a distinction between “bashing the university” and, again, pointing out the absurdity of its institutional actions in response to a picture on MySpace, after a student has worked for 4 or more years, and paid handily I would also guess; now she is denied a degree for which she worked, because some administrator overreacts to a single MySpace post! Not funny…agreed… But totally absurd beyond belief.
— Aloysius Apr 30, 03:11 PM #
thesmokinggun.com has a copy of the lawsuit filed on her behalf. It looks as though she got excellent ratings on “professionalism” up until someone spotted this picture — then suddenly, retroactively, she became “unprofessional.”
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0426072pirate1.html
Students need to learn that MySpace accounts are not “private” — in fact, nothing posted on the internet is private — but denying her a degree based on this picture, when everything else in her record appears to have been in line, is ridiculous.
— Anonymous Apr 30, 03:38 PM #
Stacy’s only mistake was chosing to go to Millersville University of Pennsylvania, even BYU which imposes strick rules about drinking wouldn’t go this far over board.
— Blah Apr 30, 03:40 PM #
Fair? No. Within the Univerisities rights? Maybe. But perhaps the bigger lesson here is that if you put something quesionable (and this is very tame by today’s standards) out for public consumption then you might face consequences for making what was esentially a private joke – public. There are schools and employers who review these sights and base their admission and hiring decisions upon what they find or don’t find. You might not like it, it might not be fair, but it is the way life works and life is often not fair
— katiue Apr 30, 03:45 PM #
I admit, the Mr. Goodbar cup doesn’t portrait the rough-and-tumble pirate image, and Stacy’s hat is a little small, but she can drink like a pirate. So, since her school won’t give her an education degree, it’s up to me to do so.
I hereby confer on Stacy Snyder, the degree of Doctor of Skullduggery, with a minor in Pillaging. This degree allows her to teach on any accrediated pirate ship in the seven seas. I also give her the pirate name, Stacy “Professor of Pain” Snyder. Congratulations Dr. Snyder! Now go teach some kids how to hornswaggle.
As the co-author of Guide to Pirate Parenting, Dr. Snyder is just the kind of teacher I think parents should look for. She’s the perfect addition to the PTA — Pirate-Teacher Association.
Happy sailing, and don’t let the bilge rats bite,
Cap’n Billy the Butcher MacDougall
www.PirateParenting.com
— Cap'n Billy MacDougall Apr 30, 03:48 PM #
There is a lesson to be learned here..when in doubt, either make it private or take it off MySpace, especially if one is working with children. That said, I’m rather disturbed by the fact that Millersville chose to give Conestoga Valley what it wanted rather than working with them to come up with a better solution. Does the high school call the shots for MUP or does the university?
— Oh please... Apr 30, 03:58 PM #
Withholding a degree for that picture is obscene, as is withholding an academic credential for any criterion other than academic performance and adherence to University policy. Not only does it get a lot worse than that picture, but: 1) It’s none of the University’s business, even if she were actually doing something wrong; and 2) No student should be held to account for something unless the University has the capacity to do the same for all students. In the words of Samuel L. Jackson in the movie “187”: “If you’re gonna be stupid, be all the way stupid.” Millersville is shaming all that is academia, and it should lose its accreditation if Ms. Snyder is not awarded her degree in education immediately.
— Dan Apr 30, 05:06 PM #
If society expects teachers to be experts in their content area and be squeaky clean role models, we should earn much higher salaries.
The college should award her degree and pay whatever the judge deems appropriate. BOTH the high school and the college owe this woman a very public apology.
— CM Apr 30, 05:12 PM #
I think that the President should do something immediately to fix this. Also, Mr. Girvin should retire or resign or be fired. This is not the 1800’s. Wake Up!!!
— CW Apr 30, 05:24 PM #
#48 Maybe the school was acting too tough. But someone has to say to teachers, “Please do not glorify drinking.” If we can stay with that thought it would be good. Otherwise we can punish the school and continue to watch teenagers die as we wring our hands.
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#50 This is all very funny, but maybe to the parents and friends of the 4,000 dead teenagers or of the 85,000 injured teenagers, it might be a little less funny? Please think seriously about the alcohol problem and don’t just amuse yourself by bashing the university.
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To #48. Do you honestly think the teen drinking problem we have is the fault of teachers who drink? If so let’s start cracking the whip. Forget parental responsiblity or anything else. Perhaps we should crucify Stacy.
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To #50. Yeah, we should have mentioned the part where she was distributing alcohol to other teachers in the hope that they could all be a bad example to children.
I guess we also overlooked where she got into a car and ran over 89,000 teens.
— Vladd44 Apr 30, 05:48 PM #
This is a tough call all around. While the actions taken by MU were extreme, teachers and teacher candidates should be aware of their responsibility to set an example to the students they teach. It is a big issue that the students found the picture. Children are computer-savvy at a very young age these days, and in many cases, if it’s out there, they will find it. If Ms. Snyder wants to be a role model to students, she should have acted responsibly in the first place, and certainly should not have broadcasted her irresponsibility on the internet for anyone to view.
— KU Elementary Education Major Apr 30, 05:57 PM #
#63: For God’s sake, she was having a drink. She broadcasted a joke about the fact that she enjoys a drink; that’s all. How do you know that she was being irresponsible while doing it?
If children are computer savvy at such a young age these days, then the bigger issue is that they are on MySpace to begin with. As a parent or a teacher, I wouldn’t allow my children or students to peruse MySpace. MySpace readily has way, way, WAY worse examples of drinking – teenagers binge drinking, drunk, half-naked, in compromising poses, passed out, you name it.
— M. Ed. from Cali Apr 30, 07:34 PM #
The punishment does not fit the offense, if you could call it that. MU does have very high professionalism expectations for certification candidates. Reprimand and remediate, yes. Deny degree and certification, no. I wonder if they would consider my post unprofessional for opposing the university’s actions???
— MU Cert Student Apr 30, 08:44 PM #
i heard the story on Nicky Dipalos show on 92.3…. i feel so bad for her… im telling all my friends that are trying to become teachers… good luck with your career stacy!
— craig Apr 30, 09:49 PM #
As an education major at Millersville University, we are all told that we cannot have pictures like that and that it will harm us. Everyone knows this and so far every other education major has managed to follow the rules. Why can’t she?
— J.O. Apr 30, 10:18 PM #
I am ashamed to say that I am an MU alumni. I guarantee that they will lose this lawsuit. The school will not get a penny out of me to help pay for their elite ivory-tower hypocrisy. MU is always touting their “Marauder” image. What’s a “Marauder”? How about “Pirates behaving badly” to put it nicely. I believe this young lady was having a little harmless fun with the school mascot. A little irony here, wouldn’t you say? Game over MU, you lose!
— Ashamed Ville Alumni Apr 30, 10:21 PM #
As an Education major at Millersville University, I totally agree with what MU is doing, especially if it was the school she was student teaching at that sent the picture to Millersville. From our freshman year we are told constantly to not put pictures like this online because if it is found it will be very damaging to our career.
The internet is an open forum now a days and many students have easy access to see these pictures. We as educators are role models for these students and are expected to act professionally and this definately is not professional.
“Stacy’s only mistake was chosing to go to Millersville University of Pennsylvania, even BYU which imposes strick rules about drinking wouldn’t go this far over board.”
My reply to this: If it is such a mistake for her to come here than why is Millersville ranked as one of the highest education schools in the country.
— Jess Apr 30, 10:26 PM #
AMEN to #23!!! A person who’s never been drunk can never really be a teacher. They know nothing of life.
My god, you’d think they would deny her the degree for having children…afterall, they are 8 and 9 years old which means she had them when she was 16 and 17. It would be just as inappropriate!
Heck, if Bush can be president then she at least deserves to be a college professor at Cambridge.
I hope Stacy receives much more than what she’s asking.
Can anyone say Salem witch trials??? This is just as ludacris and absurd. This is so bad it even makes faux news look fair. :D
— Billy Apr 30, 11:06 PM #
#50 “This is all very funny, but maybe to the parents and friends of the 4,000 dead teenagers or of the 85,000 injured teenagers, it might be a little less funny? Please think seriously about the alcohol problem and don’t just amuse yourself by bashing the university.”
Please don’t even begin to spew these numbers in relation to an educator’s position. It’s completely unrelated. The TV has much more influence over teenagers than any 10 teachers combined. And as for influencing teens to drink from this picture, outrageous!!! I see more commercials in 30 minutes (TV and online) that influence not only drinking, but smoking, sex, profanity, lying, cheating, stealing, ...fill in the blank _____. Heck, look at our current administration…talk about setting a bad example.
This woman’s only fault is that she breathes and she’s human…oh, and she’s missing a patch over her eye. Very poor halloween costume. OOPS, did I say halloween? There, that’s the smoking gun that really got her in trouble…influencing those kids to participate in that godless ritual. :)
I’ve been to Lancaster County. It’s a nice place…even has a town called Paradise. Well, it’s far, far, far from paradise now. Somebody from Millersville University better borrow Dorothy’s ruby reds and quickly do some clicking before they find themselves being branded the wicked witches of the west (actually eastern PA). :)
— Joe Apr 30, 11:31 PM #
annnnd one more reason to never ever becoming a teacher. all the smart drunks avoid the education field like the plague.
— matt May 1, 08:32 AM #
Wow! I’m not completely against Universities having a bit more power over “free speech” on their campuses depending on the situation but this is sad. Had there been a child involved and actual alcohol being shown that would be one thing but this has nothing to it. For all we know she’s drunk on life and there is water in her cup.
2. DRUNK- overcome or dominated by a strong feeling or emotion: drunk with power; drunk with joy.
— Pat May 1, 08:40 AM #
Why haven’t we heard from any English majors on this situation? Why is it OK for her to receive a degree in English, but not in Education? Or are those in the Humanities more tolerant?
— PJ May 1, 08:52 AM #
Is she on school property in the photo? If so, MU might be able to say she’s illegally drinking on campus, since PASSHE schools are dry. But other than that, I see this going in her favor. A degree plus punitive damages. Tsk, tsk, “Ville,” tsk, tsk, tsk.
— BdeRWest May 1, 09:09 AM #
Aaarh, hire a pirate lawyer and sack the university.
— There be whales May 1, 09:14 AM #
Read the lawsuit that her lawyer filed in #54. The university is going down!
The Dean of Education at MU should be fired for showing such poor judgement. The punishment is totally unfair and out of proportion to anything warranted.
University professionals who ruin peoples careers and subject the university to lawsuits should be held accountable both personally and professionally.
— There be whales May 1, 09:42 AM #
#s 14, 63, 67 and 69, for example, make me worry about the kind of teachers we are producing these days. Cheerless prigs aren’t good examples for children or anyone else; they’re just cheerless prigs.
But to be fair, I did notice a few grammar and spelling errors (ludacris !?!) from those above on the side of sanity. God save us all.
On the question of role models—in my recollections, the role models I remember were the teachers who loved their subject matter and the ones who recognized me as an individual.
— Bert May 1, 09:48 AM #
F Millersville, future teachers. Arrrrgh
— Jack Sparrow May 1, 10:02 AM #
First off, I suspect some of these ‘condemning comments’ are baiters looking to get everyone riled up here.
That being said, someone else above brought up an interesting point: If the Dean is photographed having a glass of wine at dinner or drinking a beer at his 4th of July party, is he displaying poor judgement? Should the dean lose his job? And Why stop there? Police, Doctors, Therapists, etc. Any one of these professions has at one point or another been identified as the kind that requires a certain ‘moral code’. Are we saying all these people should risk losing their jobs because they have a drink or are caught on camera doing something foolish at one point or another? The University is setting themselves up to uphold a very sticky standard here — if they’re going to play hardball on this, then they had better be ready to start witholding degrees to anyone on that campus who picks up a plastic tumbler on a Saturday night.
If they’re smart, they’ll backpedal this one, settle out of court with Ms. Snyder and let the press forget this after a few months.
— Tom May 1, 10:16 AM #
to #74.
As an English Major in an MS program, I can tell you we do tend to be more tolerant. We are teaching college age kids, and as a whole, it is expected that we have the occasional drink. College is extremely stressful, and as adults of legal drinking age, it should be perfectly acceptable that we go to a friend’s house and have a beer, given that we perform no felonies. In this case, since she was not ‘on duty,’ since there was no evidence that there were underaged drinkers present and since we have nothing but a caption to suggest that she was drinking (she does not have the characteristic blush associated with inebriation), it is unreasonable to persecute (and yes, I mean persecute) her for this. The ‘moral line’ which teachers, especially K-12 (I volunteer at a junior high, teaching creative writing to kids whose arts programs have been plundered by Bush), are being asked to draw is both foolish and ultimately inhuman. What you can ask from teachers is that they maintain professionality while they are at work. Their behavior off work, especially in a private residence, is beyond the sphere of their job. Even if there are pictures. In this case, I am reluctant to say that she should have known better, because it implies acceptance of the censure. However, with the current rash of hypocritical and nonsensical views on responsibility for teachers, perhaps she should have considered taking it down or not posting it.
However, after paying for that many hours in school, on top of the fact that the picture is from 2005, suggesting that the incident should have been addressed much sooner than it was (one has to wonder why they waited until graduation) the school should be forced to give her the degree. No one, in my experience, goes into the K-12 teaching environment for anything less than a love for students, and whether she has a beer off duty is no indicator of her fitness or vocation as a teacher.
Those are determined by performance in the classroom.
Moreover, as an employer, the high school can say they are uncomfortable, but threatening to withdraw the ability to place candidates is alarmism at its finest. The college can and should offer to withdraw itself, since the high school is so obviously intent on unrealistic standards. What program wants to place its graduates in a program that is so draconian? The coolege actually holds more power here, no matter what it looks like, because they can force the high school to spend far more money and time finding applicants.
— cutler May 1, 10:29 AM #
Is #51 right? Is she a single mom? I wonder if this is what the school was really targeting her for?
— t.s. May 1, 10:43 AM #
They’re lucky to get a teacher who has a bit of razz about her instead of more dull authoratarian drones like themselves You know what I think? That they are bitter and jealous because they’re the sort of retentive assholes who’d never get invited to a party let alone have the courage to get themselves drunk and expose what they really are.
— Bob May 1, 10:44 AM #
As a Christian I think it’s right to ban drinkers from important social positions. Particularly those who encourage others to drink. That Jesus bloke for starters – I’ve seen him in those picture with a glass trying to get everyone to have a drink of red wine, you know he even encourages people to do it on Sunday, the holy day.
— bc May 1, 11:17 AM #
It is good she didn’t get her certificate. One less ugly drunk feminazi using our innocent young teenage boys as dildos!
— Longhorn Baller May 1, 11:22 AM #
Maybe all she’s drinking is chocolate milk!
What if she had been dressed up as Aaron Burr? Would MU have denied her a certificate for encouraging dueling, murder, and alleged treason?
Or how about Thomas Jefferson? Would they have said she was encouraging slave ownership?
Or how about Bush? Would they have said she was encouraging stupidity? :)
Oh how the list goes on!
As for her next halloween costume; if the university has any input, she’ll be dressed as a Puritan with a scarlet letter A branded on her…A for Alcohol! :)
My goodness #85, please seek help! May you go in peace.
— Joe May 1, 11:32 AM #
BTW, why not let the university know how we all feel. Please spread the link far and wide:
http://www.millersville.edu/comments.php
— Joe May 1, 11:41 AM #
Joe, your comments are among the funniest ever posted on the Chronicle. Cheers.
I think #85 is a product of the free access to the Chronicle for the week.
— Dan May 1, 11:52 AM #
The one point you guys are missing is that she was asked to take this picture down. If she had, none of this would have happened. I am an education major at Millersville University and I know for a fact that she was asked, and this could have all been avoided.
The picture was seen as “unprofessional”. As an education major, we must act professional, and part of our grade is based on professionalism. If you fail that part of the class, which she did, then you fail the entire class.
It’s as simple as that. We all know here that you must take this stuff seriously. She obviously didn’t care and doesn’t deserve her degree.
— Jen May 1, 12:19 PM #
I think everyone is missing the point. It’s not the drink that the college objected to, it’s the pirate hat, which clearly indicates this girl is a member of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
This is an open and shut case of religious discrimination.
— J. R. May 1, 12:26 PM #
FROM the MU Site:
Millersville University denies the claims alleged in the federal complaint filed by Ms. Stacy Snyder. Although the University respects Ms. Snyder’s opinion, these allegations only provide a single perspective of this academic situation.
Due to federal student privacy restrictions, the University is unable to directly respond to media accounts related to the case. The University notes, however, that all of its educational decisions are based on a full range of academic performance issues, not solely on a student’s personal website or social networking site. The University is committed to maintaining the academic integrity of its academic programs and degrees and will vigorously defend itself and the actions of its employees in legal proceedings related to the lawsuit.
Any further comment about the suit will come through the State System of Higher Education Office of Legal Counsel in Harrisburg.
— gm May 1, 12:28 PM #
What legal actions she does in her personal life are her own business, not any business of her school. She definitely should get the degree she studied for. That said, I can’t help but think that her chances of employment in her chosen field have been drastically lowered by this case anyway. However, they’ve still been lowered by the absurd puritanical ideology that one’s personal life directly affects their worth as a person.
More power to you, Ms. Snyder. And I agree with a few of the comments: she’s suing for a very trivial amount in light of the impact on her career.
— Catherine May 1, 12:29 PM #
$40,000 per year * 30 year career = 1.2 Million dollars. I think this is the amount she ought to sue for.
It probably went down that a couple local yokels complained and the university paniced and overreacted.
In the course of overreacting, they denied the plaintiff any due process, i.e hearingand legal representation, peer review, appeal. Depriving of due process is a serious and agregious matter.
Ruining someones career is a serious matter and it appears that the University is circling the wagons.
— There be whales May 1, 01:01 PM #
“Drunken pirate” is an idiom. If I was posing with an apple juice in a pirate suit, what the heck else would I put for my caption…. “Teetotaling Pirate”??
I did what #87 suggested and left some comments for the Millersvile University staff.
Meanwhile, while DIGGing the story, I found an interesting semi-recent story about how the Millersville campus sponsored a beauty pageant over the objections of its students who felt such pageants are objectifying and demeaning.
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/200980
It’s good to see a campus with its priorities in order. Co-eds catwalking through campus in bathing suits, yes! Excellent student pantomiming drinking from a cup and daring to imply inebriation, NOOOOOO!
— Pat Q. May 1, 01:03 PM #
The university logo does not appear in the picture that I saw; Ms. Snyder was not wearing a school uniform, or logo in the picture; it might have been taken in her dorm, but so what? How can the university even think they have a right to ask her to take down her post. When and adminstrator ignores individual rights without offering any kind of due process, whose ethics are truly in question? Honestly, this is a slam dunk for Ms. Snyder. Besides, the teacher shortage in the United States (I believe it is particularly accute in PA) makes this a truly foolish choice by an overzealous administrator.
— Robert May 1, 01:44 PM #
Jen, I applaud you for being an education major. We need more fine teachers today.
With that said, the one point you’re missing is what was deemed “unprofessional.” The picture and caption is subjective. See my post #86.
Suppose someone posts their wedding photo…and there the lovebirds are, arms intertwined drinking from champagne glasses and the caption reads, “Drunk with Love.” Heaven forbid if they post a honeymoon picture and the caption reads, “Glowing!” Will they be accused of promoting under-aged drinking and sex?
The picture and caption was just a symbol. How it was interpreted and the fallout afterwards is where the problem exists. Granted, we don’t know the full story…but on the surface it smells rotten.
I wonder how your perspective will mature once you have taught for 10 years. Heck, I wonder how mine will be 10 years from now. :)
#91 Of course the university denies the claims…and of course, student privacy restrictions apply. The only other course of action that the university could have taken would have been to admit the error, say I’m sorry, confer the degree, and compensate. While this would have been the right thing to do, it’s not how business is done these days. It’s far easier to defend a lie than to admit the truth.
The university has already demonstrated that it lacks the common sense and intelligence to do the right thing.
And what a way to deflect responsibility to the State System of Higher Education Office of Legal Counsel in Harrisburg. Let’s give PASSHE our 2 cents as well: feedback@passhe.edu
#93 “Depriving of due process is a serious and egregious matter.”
I could not agree more. Nevertheless, it’s a precedence that’s being set by our own government…just look at Guantanamo Bay.
BTW, if the university plays hardball, they could see this whole thing blow up in their face and become a first amendment argument in front of the Supreme Court.
— Joe May 1, 01:58 PM #
Does anyone think the Dean of Education had her decision not to award degree reviewed by general counsel before she rendered it. If no legal review was performed, what kind of an outfit are they running there?
— There be whales May 1, 02:29 PM #
To #84
Your idea banning drinkers from important social positions is wrong, as long as the person does not show up drunk for work.
The Christian Right and Religious Right are WRONG for America and WRONG for the world, and that is what I often spew on my online talk show that I run.
— AlphaCrucisRadio May 1, 02:33 PM #
The administration’s decision is totally idiotic. I would definitely think twice before attending this university.
— Stu May 1, 02:35 PM #
Completely insane. It’s bad enough that Big Brother (http://bigbrother.worldwidewarning.net) is always watching, now the campus “officials” are playing little big brothers.
Does this mean every student who hopes to get a job and a degree needs to go check if there might be something they ever said or posted might upset the “officials”?
Ludicrous. Outrageous. Unacceptable.
— Peter May 1, 02:55 PM #
Many have argued about the unprofessionalism issue, but its irrelevant. The student’s behavior/expression has been interpreted and judged, and punishment exacted outside of the law, without due process and by an illegitimate agency. 75 million sounds like a better figure, this university should be reduced to a portable and one blackboard. Who will they come after next?
— Zedly May 1, 03:31 PM #
Teachers teach. Some teachers drink. If their drinking affects their teaching, it’s a problem. Until that happens, it is not anybody’s business what a teacher does in his or her personal time. This is completely inappropriate and outrageous.
— Claudine May 1, 04:22 PM #
What is missing from most of this disucssion is the role of the high school in this situation. According to the papers filed in the lawsuit, Stacy received a call from the English teacher with whom she was student-teaching, telling her that an “issue” regarding her “professionalism” had come up, and she was very soon therafter rated “unsatisfactory” in professionalism. We know that Stacy was shown the picture in a meeting with officials. What we don’t know is what else was discussed, and what other incidents or problems had ocurred before, except that there were areas of weakness that had improved — which is the point of student teaching, I thought. Clearly, the picture alone should not be the basis for any action by the university. But I have to wonder what else we are not being told. If that is the only reason they are giving for their decision, then they look ridiculous and deserve to loose the lawsuit. If there are other, more serious reasons, they have allowed the situation to get totally out of hand, and may loose the lawsuit anyway. The whole thing is sad and certainly reflects badly on serveral people’s judgment.
— Peter A May 1, 04:41 PM #
There’s little (if anything) that can be deemed professional about MySpace. That’s why it’s called MY Space. Not MY UNIVERSITY’S Space. Are they going to withhold degrees from all their would-be teachers for having any kind of life outside professional work?
As for the argument that all she had to do was to take down a picture; all the university had to do was butt-the-f#@k out of her personal life. Did they do that? Nope.
I hope the university has some punitive damages levied against it on top of what’s being sought by the plaintiff.
— GRoberts May 1, 04:45 PM #
Contact them!
http://www.millersville.edu/
— matthew May 1, 04:58 PM #
Another fine example of the socialist elite who run the country’s school system. Fall in line or we will PENILIZE you. Unless of course your of the minority persuasion
— Howie May 1, 05:13 PM #
I think we have bigger fish to fry. She’s legal, get over it. Isn’t anyone happy anymore having nothing to complain about? Everybody spends too much time anymore desperatly seeking out a moral uproar. They fail to realize that they too are having a negative impact on society by focusing on the areas others need to improve instead of concentrating on their own inevitable issues needing improvement.
— Sommer May 1, 06:44 PM #
To #94, the pageant was held to raise money for the clubs and other various groups on campus. It was for fun and was not at all demeaning. The girls that were part of the pageant volunteered. Also the people who were objecting to this happening were also objecting to us having the Vagina Monolgues which raises awareness about battered women and how to help them. The pageant has nothing to do with this situation.
— Jess May 1, 07:33 PM #
#103, Don’t go looking for any great mysteries here, sometimes it is just that simple.
Sounds like someone at thie local yokel high school had a personality conflict or was a prig and decided to make her like miserable.
The University officials shoiwed no backbone and caved into the local threats.
That’s what happens when you implement arbitrary and capricious disciplinary procedures, passions, personality conflicts, and misjudgements.
— There be Whales May 1, 09:53 PM #
67: The problem is that your (idiotic) university is basing proffesionalism on personal morality in a nonproffesional environment. That is wrong nomater howmany times someone tells you otherwise. Your response equates to “Put your head down and shut up” wich is NOT A VIEWPOINT I WOULD PROMOTE AS A UNIVERSITY!!!!!
89:The picture was seen as “unprofessional”. As an education major, we must act professional, and part of our grade is based on professionalism. If you fail that part of the class, which she did, then you fail the entire class.
It’s as simple as that. We all know here that you must take this stuff seriously. She obviously didn’t care and doesn’t deserve her degree.
——————————————————-
Someone EARNS a degree through HARD WORK not looking nice for the cameras. This woman wants to be a teacher – As my highschool teachers told me, “On weekends we stop teaching”.
But heres my 2cents:
This decision is a BAD precident for the future – Isaac hayes had it right when he said “theres a time and a place for everything and its colledge”. I am a university attending student, and have in the past consumed vast quantities of hard liqour. STUDENTS WILL DRINK!!!! – they dont have to, but they do, and will forever. If i could kick every person caught boozing on the internet out of a job then we would have a very very very crapy day. So many people are seen doing so many things — unless the aim here is to create an informing society like Chinas or USSR’s?
This is a very dark problem as the immigration officials CAN and WILL ban you from entering the states if you are an admitid drug uer — Admitted being that he wrote a schollarly report on a hit of LSD he took (while it was legal and under DR. supervision) OVER 37 YEARS AGO. The man is a UofVic psychotherapy proffesor and a ww2 survivor.
————————-
A persons proffesionalism should be based on a working history and not a personal one (Right prez. bush???)
— Michael May 2, 09:29 AM #
Fixed from above:
This is a very dark problem as the immigration officials CAN and WILL ban you from entering the states if you are an admitid drug user — Admitted being that a border guard recently dug up evidence that one canadian: wrote a schollarly report on a hit of LSD he took (while it was legal and under DR. supervision) OVER 37 YEARS AGO. The man is a UofVic psychotherapy proffesor and a ww2 survivor. He is also barred from the states because of a pare he wrote about something he did 30 years ago.
(sorry bout the post edit)
— Michael May 2, 09:35 AM #
There must be something more going on here that we don’t know about OR we’ve all gone insane!!! Considering that photos of ANY AND ALL of us can be tagged on facebook etc. without our knowledge we really should not be pointing fingers. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone! And for all of those worried about underage drinking consider from where most teens get their alcohol… from their parents, who are a much stronger influence on their behavior that an EXTREMELY tame Myspace photo. Stacy, I hope you find a job in a district where people aren’t such self-righteous prudes!!!
— frankie May 2, 10:48 AM #
#62 said: To #48. Do you honestly think the teen drinking problem we have is the fault of teachers who drink? If so let’s start cracking the whip. Forget parental responsiblity or anything else. Perhaps we should crucify Stacy.
============
Of course not, and no one is suggesting crucifying Stacy. Note that the university DID give her a degree in English. We can say that the university was being too harsh without denying the fact that for teachers to publicly set a bad example to students won’t make for a good next generation. We need to look for solutions rather than Stacy-bashing or university-bashing.
All I have seen on this forum is university-bashing without trying to go into the problem at all.
— rohitcuny May 2, 11:54 AM #
Oh my! While I agree that teachers should always set good examples, this case is totally ridiculous. How can they deny this lady her degree.
— yvette May 2, 12:04 PM #
I teach pre-service teachers at a major university in the south. We spend hours discussing these issues with our students and hope that they will make good decisions.
Regardless of what students do in their private lives, they are still entitled to due process. While I’m not a law professor, what I read of the case sure looks like a decision was made much too quickly.
Is the high school involved the only one available for student teaching? Why is MU allowing an outside entity to force them into a decision such as this?
Maybe there is more to the story…
But I agree with 30 years X $40,000…
— teacher educator May 2, 12:15 PM #
To #113 – Unfortunately, this is how change occurs; freedom of speech and one hell of a fight. Read your history books and get involved in higher administration. Otherwise, let the people speak.
— former special education teacher May 2, 12:57 PM #
this is insane! i hope this school gets sued every way of thursday, i mean, what the hell happened to our civil liberties?
— Sarah May 2, 01:02 PM #
Even if she wins this case, how many years do you think it will be until her resume on a potential employer’s desk no longer features a post-it on top saying she’s the “Drunken Pirate “ woman?
That she drinks is not an issue. That she doesn’t understand what might be Too Much Information is the issue. She’s a single mother of two young children. Posting a picture saying that she’s drunk might be a red flag in any child custody issues.
As a parent, I want my kids’ teachers to be role models at this crucial time in their lives. The teachers I know who really are dedicated to education don’t just think of teaching as their day jobs. They know that the teachable moments don’t always come during weekdays.
Yes, potential or current employers (and students) will Google you. They catch frauds claiming advanced degrees they don’t have that way as well, of course, so it’s not an entirely bad practice. The high school which knew about the photo is likely to be one where she’s applied for a job.
The mythical “permanent record” that authority figures threatened us with in days past now brings up pictures and text that we’d love to take back, but which quickly leave our control.
I don’t think there is enough information availabe to make any firm judgements on this issue. I read the document at The Smoking Gun. It ends mid-sentence, so it is not complete. There are some confusing contradictions about high marks for professionalism, accompanied by notes that Stacy needs some “remediation.” The lawsuit refers to the MySpace page as being her “private” page, yet does not distinguish between private as in non-school, and private as in only to be viewed by selected friends.
— Firemouse May 2, 01:26 PM #
in 1787, two days before their work was done, the 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention “adjourned to a tavern for some rest, and according to the bill they drank 54 bottles of Madeira, 60 bottles of claret, 8 of whiskey, 22 of port, 8 of hard cider and 7 bowls of punch so large that, it was said, ducks could swim around in them. Then they went back to work and finished founding the new Republic.” Note the 55 delegates and 54 bottles of Madeira. Which founder was slacking? From Robert Harris’s review of
Barbara Holland’s recent book on the Joy of Drinking.
— rohitcuny May 2, 03:21 PM #
Collegehumor.com has started a movement to support this young lady. They are asking people to change their facebook/myspace picture to the image of the “drunken pirate”. Check it out
— Chad Ciferri May 2, 03:26 PM #
I have never seen a school / university administration prove itself not completely idiotic, and on the constant search for “the bad guy.” I pray that she wins this case and the school AND the person who did this to her gets fired.
— Blade7764 May 2, 05:01 PM #
To # 115: There are a lot of schools around Millersville University to go to, but there are also a lot of education majors at MU. Keep in mind that MU is ranked as one of the top 10 education schools in the entire nation. There are so many education majors that we have to use every school we possibly can. Losing one school can mean a lot of students with no classroom to observe or teach in. And if one school does not let MU students in anymore, others may follow.
— Jen May 2, 05:47 PM #
As # 118 said, the issue here is not that she drinks. The issue is that in PA there is a Code of Ethics for teachers that we are supposed to follow. One of the things in that code of ethics is that we are not just being good examples in schools, but also outside of school and today that includes the internet. I knew a man who got fired because he was befriending his students on myspace. This issue isn’t about her drinking, it’s about if her students find this what kind of role model she is being for them.
To the person who said that parents are the greatest influence on students. I agree with you, but at the same time students spend 6 hours a day, 5 days a week so they also have a great influence on them. I know when I was a kid I looked up to many of my teachers and I still do.
— Jess May 2, 07:55 PM #
You are joking right? Do you know any teachers???? Fuck you, the internet is free, people are human, and those who didn’t break the law are setting an example. Teachers aren’t supposed to be perfect, otherwise how would they TEACH anything? You learn from mistakes d-bag.
— Seth May 2, 08:31 PM #
Too #115 Top 10 education school? So what, they are better then other teachers because they attend that university? Screw that, and go take your arrogant tone somewhere else. This is pissing me off, this is the BIGGEST violation of personal rights in a long time.
— Seth May 2, 08:35 PM #
I’m sorry #125. That was not meant to be arrogant in any way. It was meant to let people know that we have very high standards at MU. It does not mean in any way that we produce the best teachers, although I’d hope they would be at least pretty good.
And thank you #123 for bringing up the PA Code of Ethics. Under this code, we must present ourselves in a professional manner and be positive role models for our students. But how can we be good role models when our students find pictures of us proudly displaying our drinking habits and flaunting the fact that we’re a “drunken pirate”.
— Jen May 2, 10:38 PM #
Lets also remember that more than a few of the presidents of whom we’ve elected to lead our country have been raging alcoholics. So we can elect alcoholic presidents to lead the country, but god forbid we have a teacher who might be drinking.
— Kayla May 3, 12:52 AM #
#125 I read the section of the PA ethics code, specifcally the ones that the MU administration cited.
I saw nothing that would be applicable to this situation of the web picture posting. Furthermore, the fact remains that MU took this very serious step without any due process. MU will almost certainly lose the lawsuit.
— There be whales May 3, 11:16 AM #
Correction to above, #123.
— There be whales May 3, 11:17 AM #
#14, You’re absolutely right. Teachers should not be allowed to drink nor should mothers. #14, if you are a mother I assume you have never even tasted alcohol and that you only have sex to reproduce, too. As a matter of fact, I bet you’re children were immaculate conceptions, right?
— Lorraine May 3, 01:17 PM #
Following some of the “related story” links, we find some dispute as to the circumstances, from Conestoga Valley High School representatives.
1) They claim that no threat to the university was made.
2) They claim that the picture in the lawsuit is not the same as the picture that raised concerns with them.
3) They claim that the concern was not with the page itself, but with Snyder continuing to encourage students to visit the page after she was told not to and to communicate with them on the page.
If the school representative is reporting accurately, “private life outside of the classroom” may not be the appropriate way to describe this. If they are correct, it seems she may have brought it into the classroom. Given these developments, I’m not eager to pass judgment against either side without hearing what more may come out.
— Colst May 3, 02:16 PM #
The high school says that the picture they originally saw was one that appeared to be from the same context, but showing a back handed “peace” sign commonly expressing “F —- you” in that position.
Stacy sent an apology around that said, “This incident has caused me to open my eyes and realize that I am the only person to blame. I have to take full responsibility for my actions and live with the consequences determined by the administrative staff from Conestoga Valley High School and Millersville University.”
http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/203603
I guess that by filing a lawsuit, she no longer wants to take responsibility for her actions and live with the consequences.
— Firemouse May 3, 04:32 PM #
Well, we have the same developments here in Germany with the Germanized version of facebook, but this is absolutely wrong and crazy. Isn’t it that those networking sites are for private use? If she posted that picture (which, by the way, is the most harmless I’ve ever seen on a myspace profile) in a professional development forum or something like that, it would have been a mistake, but heck, this is private. What is next? Denying degrees to all pierced/tattooed people b/c they are not setting the right example for the kids?!?
That’s Nazis meets 1984 to me…
Jan (Berlin/Germany)
— Jan Kroeger May 4, 06:44 AM #
This is absolutely ridiculous…. Millersville does not back there students. I had always wanted to be a teacher but with less then 3 weeks left in my student teaching experience I had a conflict with my Co-op. he said I was being insubordinate because I had finished a lesson plan the night b4 and he wanted me to work on in class the day after. Instead I was working on my final project. He also said that I was spending too much time with the kids that had issues, special needs, or disabilities. He then came to me and said there are people who are going to be something and then there are people who will well just be there. stop wasting your time on the kids who don’t care or wont be anything. All my reviews weekly and the half way point were all well above the average and norm. Because he and I had a disagreement he went behind my back got the dean and went to Millersville and got the head of education (I know his name but if I say it they might remove this post) and had me removed. They said that this would stay on my record and I could not continue my student teaching experience anywhere else because there was only 3 weeks left. They said I would have to retake my student teaching and the first withdraw fail would be on my record. They did all this to me even though all my lessons were in on time if not early and all of my students were excelling even those kids who “weren’t going to be something”. What I ended up doing so my record would not have a blemish on it was change my major and graduated the following semester/year. I now work at an engineering firm FU MU.
Start backing your students and don’t be so quick to try and ruin our lives and careers and crush our dreams.
— Rich K. May 4, 09:56 AM #
i think that MU denying her a degree is a foolish thing to do. however, i think that this young woman is also foolish for posting those types of photos if she is planning to be a teacher. it is most definitely unprofessional to post “drunken” pictures of yourself for the entire public to view. myspace allows for a “private view” for friends only. if this woman would like to continue to post these pictures for her friends to enjoy then she should allow only her friends to see them. doesn’t she realize that the first thing employers look at nowadays is to see if you have a myspace? get with it, kid, if you want a real job in the real world. i will repeat, however, that the university is out of line. as many of you have already said, she did complete her academic requirements.
— Pete Tamburro May 4, 10:31 AM #
To #126: Since being a Marauder is essentially synonymous with being a “drunken pirate”, are you saying that there is an unwritten policy in the education department there forbidding affiliation with or playing up to the mascot of your university? Are you also saying that the administration endorses not officially documenting that restriction for potential students before they have already committed themselves to that program at MU?
As far as the threats of CV potentially putting a crunch of MU referenced in #122, what their pressure has really shown is that any public school now working with MU can demand the unreasonable with that same threat knowing MU will cave. That is a scary precedent to set for every current and future student in MU’s education program, and MU would have been better served nipping that type of threat in the bud by standing behind its students.
— Ray Scheel May 4, 04:53 PM #
Two sides exist to this dilemma. The true problem censored from the news article stems from the fact that she dressed like, and impersonated, a pirate. Two reasons permeate as to why this fact emerges as the central factor in all of this.
First, it is a well documented fact that Pirates are poor role models and even worse teachers. Seriously, what do you think Stacy Snyder could teach your children that actually adheres to any prurient interests of the masses? And an English teacher? Forget about it! Pirates are as famed for their improper grammatical syntax as they are for their cycloptic visage or their shoulder perched parrot.
The second reason is that her photograph clearly upset the Buccaneer’s Union due to the gross infringement of the rules. Please click the link and reference Article 6 of Bartholomew Roberts’ Articles of Piracy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_code_of_the_Brethren. Ever since the dawning of the great age of Caribbean Piracy, women were not permitted to serve on the boat, or even to board (not even if they looked like Keira Knightley, and let’s face it, Stacy Snyder is no Keira Knightley, not even after many a swigs of grog). Although the code was conceived initially by famed Privateer Henry Morgan, Captain Morgan gained notoriety for 2 other things; 1) Hanging prisoners in Portobelo by their twigs and two berries until they surrendered their gold and, 2) My brother Dave vomiting the aforementioned rum into his own baseball cap. Anyhow, Snyder clearly violated the Pirate Code of the Brethren- she’s lucky she only lost her teaching certificate. If it happened aboard my ship, she’d be a walkin’ the plank, and the man who brought her a board would serve as chum to frenzy the sharks! To Davey Jones’ locker for the both of them scallywags!!!
— Ed Kobeski May 4, 11:32 PM #
I seem to be the only to notice the poster behind her that reads beastia… fill in some letters, and Hoo Ah! ... coup de grace!
— Todd Furgeson May 7, 02:54 PM #
What administrator has the time to look through each graduate’s websites to screen this petty information? I bet she’d be okay if it were a photo of her kissing another girl, huh?
— K May 7, 04:10 PM #
there has fews of good mews to apeal to any one needs and gets it. Kaomaleay!!!!!!!!
— xieng May 8, 12:01 AM #
The Millersville University President is Francine McNairy. Her e-mail address is Francine.mcnairy@millersville.edu. I’ve already sent several scathing e-mails to this person. That would be far more effective than simply writing in a blog. And I wish Stacy Synder the very best. What a shameful act by an American university.
— Dr. Toketee May 8, 04:34 AM #
Correct me if I am wrong but convicted FELON’s are allowed to get degrees while still in PRISON?????...
Even if she was photographed committing a crime like say RUNNING A TRAFFIC LIGHT... how could a college deny her education degree and teaching certificate? .... I think she should sue for MUCH more money. They are denying her the right to earn a living and dragging her good name through the dirt and public scrutiny
Really… this is unconscionable.
Jay in Rochester, NY
— annoyed 2 extremes May 8, 11:31 AM #
I am so sorry for Stacy. This could’ve happened to an incredibly large number of education master students, and she had to be the scapegoat – for what???? they have her money. I would sue for all money paid to the university over the years along with tuition to go get a new degree, THEN the 75,000 for damages. What a horrible university. I hope their enrollment fails considerably after this outrageous decision.
AND THE MASCOT IS A PIRATE – SHE IS SHOWING SCHOOL SPIRIT!!!!
— Lynn May 8, 12:24 PM #
As alw