November 24, 2008

Deal Is Reached on Immigration Bill Affecting Students, Says Senate Leader

Washington — Momentum appears to be building in Congress for passage of immigration legislation that could make some illegal immigrants eligible for certain federal programs, including student aid.

In an interview with the Gannett News Service that was published over the weekend, the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, a Democrat of Nevada, said that President-elect Barack Obama and Sen. John McCain, a Republican of Arizona, had reached agreement on how to proceed with a comprehensive immigration bill. Senator Reid said that he did not expect “much of a fight at all” over the legislation, which would overhaul the nation’s immigration laws.

Congress tried to pass an immigration bill last year, but it failed for reasons unrelated to the education provisions. Those pieces of the bill, which were taken from the Dream Act, would have created a path to permanent residency for immigrant students and would have made it easier for states to charge cheaper in-state tuition rates to some illegal immigrants. —Kelly Field

Comments

1. Maybe we should focus on educating our “own” citizens at this point in time rather than making another hand out available. The “billions” that this will foster in paybacks is tremendous! California is a perfect example of what cost it will “burden” the tax payer in order to return the favor. This seems to be following a familiar theme over the last month don’t you think – one that will come to bite us in the not-so-distant future me thinks. With this type of thinking maybe the Democrats can finger the blame on some non-existent party now that they have sole control of both houses, the presidency, and pretty much wag the judicial?! We’re being played by special interest groups on both sides of the aisle folks and the time is now to stand up and be counted if we really care about educating our children.

   — Michael Harper    Nov 24, 03:49 PM    #

2. What unbelievable ignorance! They are OUR children and the children of our workers. They are around you everyday and you do not even notice them as being ‘foreign’ because they are as American as any other student. They are in your classroom. They speak English more often without an accent than with. They also very often the top performing students in our inner city schools and the talent we will need to build our economy and our future.

   — Paul Garza    Nov 24, 03:57 PM    #

3. well, must say that on balance it sounds fine, but my kid can’t get resident tuition next door but a student from abroad can?

   something’s very wrong with that.

   — megano    Nov 24, 04:02 PM    #

4. It is about time that this country take care of the people who were born here first. After all, as a single working parent, my son, who is a college student, cannot obtain aid in any way. There certainly is something very wrong with that.

   — Working Mom    Nov 24, 04:40 PM    #

5. There should be no benefits given to illegal aliens until all of our citizen children are cared for.

   There should be no “Dream Act” until chain migration is eliminated from the law. Why should the individuals (parents) who illegally entered the country benefit from the legalization of the children whom they abused by bringing them illegally into the country.

   — CEE    Nov 24, 04:47 PM    #

6. This issue helps young people who came to the US as say 6 year olds (not their choice to immigrate illegally), grew up in our US public school system, and now want to go to college to become contributing adults in the only society they know. These are not randoms off the boat looking for a handout. These are many times talented young people trying to get by when their history wasn’t of their choosing, but their future could be if we allow them to work just as hard as other students who graduate from US high schools.

   — Livy    Nov 24, 04:47 PM    #

7. It shouldn’t matter how old they were when they arrived in this country. The children born in this country should not be turned away from aid where it is so freely given to foreigners.

   — spitting in the wind    Nov 24, 04:55 PM    #

8. Mr. Michael Harper’s comment is very typical of a popular view regarding the benefits of or legislation to assist immigrant children by making federal educational benefits more available. Unfortunately Mr. Harper and others like him are ignoring the very real tsunami heading at this country right now – demographers have been telling us for several years to beware of the large shortage of prepared workers (skilled & unskilled) in this country by as early as 2010 (soon!). Why? the baby boomers have begun to retire. This tidal wave will continue to come at the US for 3 decades, draining the reserve of educated, prepared workers in this country. With a sky-rocketing tax burden imposed by this new group of retirees and elderly, more numbers than ever before in our history, the concern and discussion we SHOULD be having is how do we “grow” workers, fast. How do we move our youth in to the middle class, to home buyers and owners to pay taxes to support the revenue base needed over the next several decades? Californians should know this very well right now – we’ve seen our state revenues drop due to many factors including the national economy, but primarily a loss of tax revenues. California is looking at huge cuts to its citizens in services and infra-structure this year and the next several. We already have a huge deficit in this country and the boomers have only begun to retire. Boomers will want their entitlements too – Social Security and Medicare – we need today to cultivate our future taxpayers of America, educate them, get them to work to replace these retirees, and generate our next tax base for things to continue. I hope to retire in a few years and I’m worried that even if I can afford it, will the next generation be prepared to take over? As a college career and academic counselor I have always been concerned about the dwindling financial support this country provides to youth and families – so I agree we need to do better on this score and I know that is a promise Pres-Elect Obama has made to our families. But how could we, as a humane nation, cut out assistance to a ‘certain group of youth’ in residence in this country? Especially considering we need to get as many as we can to college. Most people don’t realize that immigration to the US leveled off even decades ago. The folks here now have settled in and are raising their families here. As Americans how can we say we will only help one group of children, but not this other group? We are talking about children, for goodness sake! And with dramatic shift in our demographics, I believe that we need everyone of these talented young people we can get in to college; we need to cultivate the future taxpayers of America!

   — Anna Garza    Nov 24, 05:06 PM    #

9. Apparently, US citizenship is meaningless in this country. What part of illegal don’t our representatives understand. Perhaps our government leaders need to consider the number of unemployed citizens who really need to be re-educated. The Dream Act really needs to take a back seat until our economy is on track.

   — DM    Nov 24, 08:36 PM    #

10. #8, I am curious about your assertion, “Especially considering we need to get as many as we can to college.” Why do we need to get as many as we can to college?

    Recently, the CHE/Brainstorn published a very revealing blog, http://chronicle.com/review/brainstorm/bousquet/most-higher-ed-executives-are-underpaid, which discussed the dismal pay of adjucts in relation to the tuition charged for their services. One anectdote from Joe Erwin (#22) struck a chord with me:

    “Along the way I interviewed for a couple of tenure track jobs. In one place I was advised by several people, including the department chair and at least one student, that they had two kinds of students in their PhD program. One kind was highly qualified and fully supported. They others paid the high tuition and were not expected to finish the program or accomplish much. They were just admitted because they could and would pay—enough to support the merit students…”

    So I ask you, #8, Ms. Garza, if we have unemployment at 6.8% and we have an over-supply of highly educated Ph.D’s , why exactly do we need to “get” as many as we can to college? I understand your concerns with retirees, but I should note that there are now hiring freezes in universities, as well as federal and state governments. If anything, tuition should be decreasing because wages are stagnant. Who exactly is subsidizing this class of students? State taxpayers or tuition payers in general?

    As a matter of principle, why should law breakers be rewarded?

    — JAS    Nov 24, 09:25 PM    #

11. Despite the arrogant & insenstive comments of Senate Majority Leader Reid regarding “immigration reform” (i.e. amnesty), it would be politically foolish for President-elect Obama to wade into the still very controversial waters of immigration and push an amnesty scheme. Yes, the economy trumps all issues now. And yes, the major media ignored this issue during the campaign as both Obama and McCain support “legalization”
    “pathway” amnesty schemes (and both were happy to avoid this issue). But in this time of severe financial distress, Americans will not take kindly to a mass legalization of the estimated 11-35 million illegal aliens currently in our country, even if they supposedly had to pay a small (uncollectable) fine and “learn English.” There are about 10 million Americans out of work and jobless claims are at a 16-year high. Any mass amnesty scheme would negatively impact these people and manual workers. This is not “nativism” these are facts. Our country and our elected representatives have the moral obligation to take care of our own people. Other countries such as the corrupt but still wealthy Mexico should take care of and provide opportunties for THEIR citizens. Bottom line: if Obama, Reid, McCain, Lindsey Graham et al push a mass amnesty again, they can expect a huge fight just like in June 2007. Grass roots opposition from concerned Americans will be intense.

    — Working class guy    Nov 25, 02:13 AM    #

12. What is problematic, is that while it’s good to educate all our human capital, this is just one more swan song for illegals to cross over and take advantage of our money. If their children were stopped from going to school in the first place, they might not immigrate. I’m also tired of US born kids with parents that take them back to Mexico. Those dual citizen kids are never raised here unless it’s convenient for mom and dad. No amnesty. We can’t educate our own, trust me on this, let alone others. The Dream Act was not free though, they had to pay instate tuition. BUT what about the thousands of students who come here annually and have to pay out of state tuition? What about our own citizens who want to go to say UTA…if they come from out of Texas they pay out of state tuition. The Dream Act allows for illegals to have in state tuition. That’s not right but they’ll have met the residency requirements anyhow right?

    On another note. Only 28% of our citizens have bachelor’s degrees, of that amount 3% have PhDs. We barely educate our own, how do we remain hegemonic then?

    — Older Gen    Nov 25, 05:40 AM    #

13. It used to be illegal to own slaves.

    Illegality sometimes = injustice. That we should treat aliens who do much of our most difficult work like paraiahs and then that we have the gall to treat them unjustly is a grave injustice that cries to heaven for redress.

    There are no illegal human beings. DM, what part of that don’t YOU understand?

    — Green Eyeshade    Nov 25, 05:45 AM    #

14. Coming to the USA 50 or 100 years later than people of Italian,Jewish and Irish descent should not bear any punisment . All children coming here should be treated equal

    — milos    Nov 25, 07:25 AM    #

15. How little compassion I see in the comments here. It is sad to see educators without compassion for all human beings.

    — Jim    Nov 25, 08:41 AM    #

16. When was it decided to give illlegal immigrants benefits? They are here as criminals who are being paid to break the law. It is unbelievable that illegal immigrants come here, have children and then their children are US citizens simply because they are born here. We need to copy the immigration laws of the country people come from and deny them citizenship and “rights” just like American and other citizens are denied in other countries.

    Lloyd

    — Lloyd DeRamus    Nov 25, 08:42 AM    #

17. Harry Reid spends more time working for the rights of illegal immigrants that he does working for the American citizens who voted him into office.

    — Laura    Nov 25, 09:14 AM    #

18. what other options do these children have besides criminal activity after high school? they are not going back to their home countries, most of which no longer know their home countries as home, and have done what so many like, ASSIMILATE, rather than acculturate. yet they are being punished for wanting to pursue an education….what an atrocity, someone who actually wants to be educated. I would rather have undocumented students in our country with an education than without. Let’s pay on the front end with our tax dollars rather than on the back end with building new prisons for further incarceration.

    — maricela    Nov 25, 09:38 AM    #

19. This issue with helping undocumented children obtain financial assistance is that some people feel they are being denied assistance as a result. There is no relationship between the two. Just because these immigrant children have access to funding doesn’t mean they will get it. It means they qualify if they have been here for years.

    Better access for all to financial assistance is a national problem that must be remedied through funding and support for higher education. Right now, most students only qualify for student loans which serve to put them and their families under the burden of huge debt. Yet, student borrowers have no consumer protection.

    Consider this: these immigrants will now have the opportunity, just like the rest of us, to get into debt and struggle to pay their loans. Is this really an opportunity?

    For us to get what we need, we must stop resenting immigrants, give them a path to citizenship and start focusing on the real issue—in this case, the underfunding of higher education and indeed of all education.

    — kgotthardt    Nov 25, 10:34 AM    #

20. To the comments from #3,4, & 5, can somebody please tell me what benefits undocumented persons would receive that native born citizens do not receive?

    — DDS    Nov 25, 10:52 AM    #

21. I am heartened by the wise and compassionate comments of responses # 2,6,13,14,15,18,and 19. As for the remainder of comments I am very surprised that so little time is spent to understand very complex issues in the United States. Undocumented students through the Dream Act would qualify for instate tuition in the state they have resided in, been educated in, and in many cases have voluteered many, many, hours of service to better their communities. They are making the grade and aspire to give back to the state they have been raised in. This does not take money from other student’s pockets. Need based aid has been on the decline for over 25 years. We need creative, educated thinkers who will work on these issues. As we have seen in the current economic crisis, we live in a global interconnected world. The United States history proves that we don’t always have all of the answers but in this situation this is the right thing to do. Educate the children that are here. These children are your children’s friends and classmates, they study hard in your classes and will take care of the boomers in our “golden years”. Please stop using hate language and words to discuss issues of historic importance to our nation.

    Cynthia

    — Cynthia    Nov 25, 11:06 AM    #

22. I’ve always thought that the Chronicle had an educated and enlightened readership base. Many of the comments above prove me wrong. How sad it is that so many in our country are filled with such hatred.

    — LPM    Nov 25, 11:12 AM    #

23. Healthy and respectful debates are good for our country and democracy. As an immigrant and one who works with young people who have become undocumented, I am happy to hear that we may be granting educational opportunities to our neighbors and the innocent human beings who know no other country than this one. We certainly have two choices: provide educational opportunities to these young people and have them be educated members of our society or keep them away from them and have them be non-educated members of our society. Those of us reading and writing comments should be intelligent enough to know which choice is the best for our country in the long term.

    Paste Boul

    — Paste Boule    Nov 25, 11:30 AM    #

24. I am quite outraged at the ignorance some people are displaying. This is the land of immigrants, for crying out aloud! The only people who should get educated, by your logic, should be the Native Americans. Because other than them, no one is ‘truly American’. Let’s all demand that then, shall we? Only Native Americans can get aid for education. All others pay full price!

    — N    Nov 25, 11:46 AM    #

25. The so called “Dream Act,” which crashed and burned” — correctly I might add — would have made it easier for states to charge cheaper in-state tuition rates to some illegal immigrants, while requiring out-of-state US Citizens to pay more. And now liberal Congressional leaders have stated that a deal is in the works for immigration legislation “…that could make some illegal immigrants eligible for certain federal programs, including student aid.” And some of the clowns who submitted comments on this piece (#2, 6, 8 & 13) actually support these initiatives.

    The ignorance of those who would propose or support these so-called “immigration reforms” is simply stunning. At a time we are in an economic meltdown and US Citizens and LEGAL residents are having trouble paying for their children’s education, boneheaded individuals and members of Congress are pushing for legislation, once again, to give yet another “handout” — and this time to those who are in this country ILLEGALLY! And make no mistake — it will be us Taxpayers that foot the bill.

    If Congressional leaders and those who have posted comments in this forum support giving illegal aliens tuition breaks, financial aid, subsidized health care and other benefits, then they should pay for it out of their own pockets. But don’t expect or require those law-abiding taxpayers who are in this country legally and oppose these measures to pick up the tab.

    A much better use of tax-payer dollars would be to use the billions of dollars that would otherwise be spent to implement this proposed idiotic immigration bill, to pass a real Immigration Bill that serves the interests of our nation. How about provisions that protect our borders, slam US employers who hire illegals with big fines and jail time, deny Illegals access to any tax-payer supported programs and streamline the process for deporting those who are illegally in this country.

    — LDP    Nov 25, 12:09 PM    #

26. I laugh every time I read the comments on Chronicle news blogs. The myth of the “liberal” academy is impeached by the overwhelming majority of conservative commentators posting here.

    — John    Nov 25, 12:48 PM    #

27. Having worked with students and families in this situation, I feel that the passing of financial assistance is long overdue. They have the grades, the ACT/SAT scores, but lack the 9 digit number that will provide them financial support. We step on the shoulders of our ancestors who were immigrants, these students and their parents are no different.
    Those who are not advocates to this cause misunderstand that these hard working families contribute milliions to our economy and do not collect a dime. This so called “handout” is actually not a handout but a payback for 400+ of injustice to working class immigrants and families of ALL nationalities.

    — Tanya Cabrera    Nov 25, 12:56 PM    #

28. Many immigrants who came to the USA could not afford the American universities, just like now. Did that prevent them from educating their children? No. Did they as for handouts from American citizens? NO. They came here for opportunities and opportunities are here. How many immigrant groups formed their CWN small private lilberal arts college to educate their own: Calvin College and Hope College by the Dutch, two of the best liberal arts colleges in the Midwest. Suomi College founded by the Finns in Northern Michigan who could not afford to go to Michigan State and Michigan. Now Soumi College is Finlandia University. Those who want a free ride to the large state universities who overcharge and mass educate, do not get the point or understand the history of the USA. Each immigrant group needs to work together and DO, not ask to be spoon fed and educated by the so-called Democratic elite who throw them a bone. And most of these independent minded people who formed their own schools, colleges, universities and businesses do not NEED any handouts from Obama and his democratic friends. They are also not going to Congress and asking for Handouts like the Banks, Big 3 and Wall Street. Those who work for everything they got and do not ask for handouts do not feel sorry for those who have speculated and lost millions, in not billions on Wall Street, by investing in Asia, Eastern Europe. They have invested in their children by founding private schools, colleges, universities and businesses. They and their children take care of each other and their neighbors. This is what made American great and it will again. And Obama and the Democrats and Republicans will have nothing to do with it. The large state public universities with all of their programs, have done more damage to the economy than they have good. On the other hand the small private colleges and universities and businesses are going strong. But then they are not rich, and that is not their goal Their goal is to work hard, make your own breaks and take advantage of the opportunities you have. Noone promised the immigrants who arrived in droves at Ellis Island a free college education. Many of them came from Europe with trades, crafts, … They are what made America great. What they brought with them, and their work ethic and willing to be part of a new Experiment. The Democrats and Republicans have both stuffed up the American way of life. One with big government and to much micromanagement, affirmative action, … and the other by too little, and by letting companies like Enron manipulate markets and make millions due to deregulation. Ross Perot had it right, but the Democrats and Republicans formed an alliance to take him and his family out. What we are left with needs to fall to the bottom, not just Wall Street, the banking and credit system and the Big 3, like Enron. But the whole political system, where we let two parties dictate who debates, which questions are asked. Many of you probably do not remember the days when all political parties had representatives who participated in the Presidential debates. The League of Women Voters and the Mass Media have allowed two political parties to SEIZE control of America. It is not much better than what happened in the former Soviet Union and what is now in China, Iran, North Korea. Look at Europe. Almost all Coalition governments. 1/2 of the Representatives are directly elected and the rest are allocated on percentage of the vote. In America the Democrats and Republicans have STOLEN Democracy from the American people have not even realized it. It is like putting a frog in hot water and slowly warming it up, cooking it and it does not jump out. We the American people have been cooked by the Democrats, Republicans, the League of WomenVoters and the Mass Media and do not even realize it. NOONE checked the PRESS, MASS Media, the Democrats and Republicans when they said there were Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq, when the Kuwaitis said that the Iraqi Soldiers were taking Kuwaiti children from incubators. Both lies and propaganda which led us to Gulf 1 and Gulf 2. And the so-called evidence what led the US into Afghanistan. If Bin Laden was there why havenot we found him like we DID Sadam? Actually Sadam had nothing to do with September 11, but we INVADE Iraq, have a kangaroo court and execute the leader of a sovereign country (even Hitler did not do this) and now we are going to leave Iraq in total chaos? What have we become as a nation? What we let our country become? And it starts with education? Primary, Secondary, College, University. The immigrants had it right in the past. Start/establish your OWN private schools, private colleges, private universities and private businesses. Do not let the so-called government your children and take control of your life. This is WHAT made America great. Unless we return to this, we will NEVER return to our former state. We will only get lower and lower and lower. People need to take responsibility for themselves and the education and upbringing of their children and not pass it on to the State, as they have done in Nazi Germany, the former Soviet Union, in Iraq, in China, in North Korea, in Iran, … Private schools, private colleges, private universities, private business and a bit of PRIVACY. It use to be a RIGHT to have a bit.

    — KJJ    Nov 25, 12:59 PM    #

29. Great! There isn’t enough financial aid as it is – let’s let illegal immigrants have some of it!

    Change you can believe in.

    — TRB    Nov 25, 01:19 PM    #

30. The Dream Act does not give financial aid to illegal aliens. The Dream Act allows kids that have come not of their own will to pay for college as you and I would.

    Most immigrants that are here illegally pay income taxes and all of them pay sales tax and property taxes if they own a home or if you account that a renter helps to pay the owners property tax. They are paying into they system.

    If their children grow up uneducated how does that help the US? If we deport all of our millions of illegal immigrant workers at the cost of $8,000 per person how does that help the US?

    The Dream Act is not a hand out it is allowing people who want to do good for our country a path to do so. It does not cost our government a dime, and it gives our schools more money.

    What is a nation but its people? And what is a great nation but to magnify the strengths of its people? So, I say to let these children go to school so they can help you and me instead having them be a drain on our society by being uneducated and less able to make their own way.

    — Kris    Nov 25, 02:38 PM    #

31. Anna #8. It is good to point out changing demographics. People are living longer. As people age, they generally have a at least a desire to become more compassionate, less selfish and more inclusive, if they are given an opportunity to do so. If they do not have a sense of security and well being, or a path to do so, they of course react differently. As we enter this new era of aging in the US and in the world, we need to create new forms of social, economic and environmentally sustainable institutions to support this aging population. I believe that “higher education” as well as those in this aging cohort, have an opportunity and responsibility to participate in the creation of these new institutions.
    Much of Higher Education focuses on developing youth, enabling them to become functional and “work” within society. Youth are expected to be launched, be innovative and creative in solving the problems of the world. There has also been the boom in lifelong learning, night school and online programs for advanced degrees, etc to keep boomers current and functional. These are generally additions to consumption. I see little activity in creating engaging “university lifestyles” for those, say over 50. Universities, which are like small urban social communities are relatively efficient because they “share” resources. Living space and transportation expenses and personal consumption rates are lower. Developing pathways for those say over 50, to reduce consumption, along with creating inter generational, meaningful opportunities to contribute on campus could reduce social fear, promote health and well being. Housing and transportation for students on campus, generally cost about $10,000 per year. I am opposed to some active lifestyles on university campuses, mainly because they have entrance fees of $150K to $400K, with recurring rents of $24,000 per year, or exclusive deals for emerita. To frame my perspective, I am 51, an engineer, MBA, divorced, kids launched, aging in place, in too large of a home, still with 3 cars, and a 10 year history of $100,000 jobs, mainly in manufacturing, which has been in decline for 50 years in the US as we shift to a knowledge based society. I will go back to college, full time, not at night or online. I do this to reduce my consumption and rightsize for my life. It is my social responsibility to do so, to enhance the quality of education by sharing real world life experiences with a classroom of 20 year olds. I refuse to become a social burden or expect other social entitlements. If this path of inexpensive, right sized consumption were actively developed on university campuses, Universities would reduce operating costs while improving the quality of education. In the end, you and others would feel less threatened and enabled to become more compassionate towards the world population. More at http://sites.google.com/site/boomersuniversity/Home

    — Rob Perhamus    Nov 25, 03:00 PM    #

32. With our economy in a shambles, and our K-12 educational system totally unaccountable for producing students competent to go into the workplace or into higher education, I don’t think we’ll have to worry about illegal aliens much longer. If people want their kids to get a good education and a good job, the USA just isn’t keeping up with many countries in Europe, Asia, or our neighbor to the north (at least for 49 states), Canada. That’s what should really scare us—not immigrant children who perform well getting into our colleges with in-district or in-state tuition (which means their parents, who may be working illegally, are paying state and local taxes). Heaven forbid that we would ever require teacher testing and outcome-based compensation! And think of what we could save educating college students if colleges did not have to provide so much remedial education!

    People are worried about educating illegal aliens—we should be much more worried about not educating our students, legal or illegal, properly!

    — CM    Nov 25, 03:01 PM    #

33. I am appalled by the sentiments of Americans who themselves are immigrants – or are children or grandchildren of immigrants. The American Indians are the NATIVES and everyone is an immigrant in this country, YET we have people who want to kicks out the ones who arrived after they did. Illegal immigrants contribute to this economy just as much as everyone else, they work harder than most Americans, they work shitty hours to make ends meet, they do the shitty jobs that White Americans would find disrespectful for themselves. YET so much anger and hatred! I don’t see why you would want illiterate immigrants kids growing up in your neighborhood, in YOUR country – what good does that do to anyone? If you educate them, teach them how to lead a good life maybe they wouldn’t have to remain poor forever, they’ll cross the poverty line and they’ll do great things. WHy is that a crime? GIving them a chance in life is so wrong? I don’t understand why. If you belong to a state, you pay state tution – I understand immigrants would do. Currently, if they want to go to college, they pay exorbitant international feel – which are higher than out of state tuition, if you really want to know. What it is the point in hurting immigrant families who would probably send their kids to college instead of getting health insurance just so they could be better off as grown ups, unlike their parents. WOuld you rather foot the cost of health care for all those poeple who will not be able to afford insurance? Seriously, get some perspective. Hating isn’t the way. They’re here, they’ll be here – policies should enable them to have better lives because if they do, it means better lives for everyone in this great nation. There’s something called a trickle down effect, and once that is set in motion, things can only get better. There are a large LARGE number of colleges in this country – and how many Americans go to college? NOT MANY even if with instate tuition. And that’s YOUR choice. Now that immigrant kids will get the same opportunity that you always had – you are crying ‘not fair’? Again, what you do is out of choice. Leave those poor kids alone – what they do is determined by governmnet. How is that fair?

    Breeding hatred for immigrnts in a country which is historically an immigrant nation is plain ridiculous. Unless you’re Native American you’re an immigrant. So really, you’re preaching hatred against yourselves. There’s enough of that going on – what with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan – pointless wars that displaced people, mind you – and it’s about time that America starts paying its dues.

    I APPLAUD VP Biden and Sen McCain for drafting and passing this.

    THANK YOU.

    Love.

    — SH    Nov 25, 04:12 PM    #

34. I was taught that Indians walked across a bridge between what we now know as Alaska and Russia. How are they native?

    — Lloyd DeRamus    Nov 25, 05:30 PM    #

35. native americans/america indians/ red indians = all the same.

    history in one sentence: the red indians used to live in this country before columbus ‘discovered’ it. so obviously he didn’t discover it – he just got immigrants into the country. which would be your ancestors, unless you are native american yourself.

    alll those people who say they’re actually from greece or ireland of england – they’re all migrants. they’re american NOW. just like the hispanics, for example. but you can’t throw them hispanics out because you came here first, can you? the red indians didn’t, no one else should even dare.

    — native    Nov 25, 06:48 PM    #

36. haha that’s what you were TAUGHT? Isn’t that EXACTLY what we’re talking about here – education? SEE how important education is? You were taught wrong. I would sue your teachers if I were you.

    — taught    Nov 25, 06:50 PM    #

37. There are important and huge distinctions between immigration (immigrants) and illegal immigration (illegal aliens). Immigrants patiently wait in line and respect our laws, while illegal aliens do not (while often using scarce public resources and engaging in identity theft).

    It’s sad though typical that some supposedly well educated commenters here conflate the two — as does much of the mainstream media.

    La Raza & other ethnocentric groups, cheap labor employers, liberal Democrats (e.g. Nancy Pelosi) and open-border Republicans (e.g. John McCain), also commonly though wrongly conflate immigration and illegal immigration, and refer to illegal aliens as “immigrants.” They know that if they cannot blur the distinction between the two, they lose the debate.

    They also inexcusably ignore how unchecked illegal immigration harms the wages of poor workers, the lower-skilled, young entry-level African-Americans, and second generation Mexican-Americans.

    The U.S. is extremely generous with its immigration policy, admitting over 1 million immigrants a year. Unfortunately, as a result of not securing our border and enforcing our laws against against foreigners who overstay their visas, there are now about 12+ million illegal aliens in our country.

    As the failed 1986 amnesty proved, any further amnesty (or to use an amnesty euphemism: “pathway to citizenship”) would only exacerbate the problem and lead to more illegal immigration. It is time our elected officials finally follow through on the promises made in 1986 and consistently enforce immigration laws.

    And if our laws were finally enforced and benefits cut off, many if not most illegals would self-deport over time. This “attrition” strategy is the humane, true middle ground way of solving this crisis — without the need for mass deportations or more disastrous amnesties.

    — Concerned citizen    Nov 25, 11:10 PM    #

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