May 13, 2008

N.C. Community Colleges Will Not Admit Illegal Immigrants After All

The tug of war over what to do with illegal immigrants who seek to attend community colleges in North Carolina continues, as the state’s 58-college system announced today that it would no longer admit students who had entered the country illegally.

“We asked the attorney general’s office for clarification of our present policy and will abide by their advice,” said the system’s president, R. Scott Ralls, in a written statement announcing the decision.

Last week federal immigration officials released a statement saying that “it is left for the school to decide whether or not to enroll” undocumented students. The community-college system is now heeding the advice of the state attorney general, Roy A. Cooper III, a Democrat. His office has asked the system to revert to a directive, issued in December 2001, that barred illegal immigrants from working toward a degree.

But the issue may not be dead yet. North Carolina’s governor, Michael F. Easley, also a Democrat, has challenged the attorney general’s opinion, The News & Observer reported today. Last week Governor Easley called on community colleges to continue admitting illegal immigrants who meet eligibility requirements.

The community-college system estimated that just 112 out of more than 297,000 degree-seeking students are illegal immigrants. Those students will be allowed to complete their degree programs at out-of-state tuition rates. —JJ Hermes

Comments

1. This is a tragedy for the thousands of students who are cultural and linguistic Americans and who, through no fault of their own have no legal status and will not be able to afford higher education. They are Americans whether or not one agrees with granting them legal status. Among them are our brightest scholars and intellectuals who have the potential of being our future leaders who will serve our country and advance the quality of life for all Americans. Hard working and dedicated, these students know what hardship is first-hand and we owe it to them to grant them the opportunity to become educated and productive members of our society. This is a sad day for North Carolina as it has gone the way of Arizona. We are hurting our children, our future and ourselves. It is time to pass the DREAM act and to give these Americans a chance to succeed and shine brightly. We must press our representatives and senators to push this act through before our advances our disassembled state-by-state. These students should not be punished and need to be given the fair chance at the American Dream.

   — Matt    May 13, 02:37 PM    #

2. Here here Matt, I agree….whole heartedly. Too bad many will jump on these posts in defense of exclusion.

   — Carsonk    May 13, 03:12 PM    #

3. Matt, the folks in question had the opportunity to apply for legal immigration documents, but chose instead to disregard our laws because they were inconvenient. Which other laws are now, or will become inconvenient to follow? Only the ones that make us feel bad? Come on, stop wallowing in emotion. Use your head.

   Carbuncle, being in favor of the rule of law does NOT mean that I am in favor of exclusion. In fact, and take your time on this one, I am whole-heartedly in favor of immigration and sharing the American Dream, but it must be done in an orderly and controlled manner.

   Have either of you been in an accident with an illegal immigrant? I have—no license, no registration, no insurance, no recourse. I’m still paying the medical bills from that one. The party at fault? He never showed up in court and no one has any record of the man-anywhere. The rule of law is a good thing—a good thing.

   — Pat    May 13, 03:47 PM    #

4. Plaudits to you, Pat. And deepest sympathies for the auto accident with no recourse or recompense.

   How incredibly short-sighted to prematurely label detractors as exclusionists. Carson K, let’s have a level headed discussion without the assumptions and name calling, shall we?

   — fair play    May 13, 03:54 PM    #

5. What if logging and mining companies didn’t have to apply for and receive permits to log and mine? They are providing needed wood and minerals for our society so why not dispense of the whole permit system all together? Anything else would be in favor of exclusion.

   — the REAL marci    May 13, 03:59 PM    #

6. Illegal immigrants should not be given the same privileges as citizens. These are illegals who could have entered the country legally. However, they chose to come as illegal immigrants. How about American citizens who are not given the same educational opportunities as illegals? North Carolina’s governor, Michael F. Easley, also a Democrat, should be taken to task by North Carolina’s citizens for not obeying the laws. Illegals are being encouraged to break American laws by granting privileges. Shame on you Governor!

   — kvc    May 13, 04:04 PM    #

7. 112 students out of 297,000 and someone makes a big deal out of it? I’m tempted to call it racist, but in all reality, it sounds more like anal compulsion. Maybe the state would benefit from more indoor plumbing.

   — original marci, not the real marci    May 13, 04:07 PM    #

8. What part of “ILLEGAL” was misunderstood?

   Bank robbery is illegal. How long before we start harboring bank robbers because we feel sorry for them, too?

   I agree with Pat-I wholeheartedly support LEGAL immigration. But, if these people aren’t willing to do what has to be done to be here legally, why should they be afforded any of the benefits of citizenship?

   — BK    May 13, 04:11 PM    #

9. My experience is that it is far easier to call yourself an undocumented student (in many systems) and go to college than it is to take the time to seek out and demonstrate appropriate documentation.

   As a general rule, humans are lazy and will follow the “easiest” path. If the goal is to discourage undocumented students, then make it harder and more inconvenient than it is for documented students. Then you are not precluding these students from attending and so robbing them of their right (?) to the American Dream, but you aren’t rewarding their behavior either.

   — M    May 13, 04:13 PM    #

10. In the spirit of fair play’s post, let’s have this discussion. In my opinion, the primary question to be asked is: “Is our immigration law and policy in keeping with what we as a society believe is a just and moral treatment of human beings as well as either in line with or striking a balance with our real need for security?” If the answer to that question is no, then the moral obligation is to revise our laws before we take action against people. Personally I would argue that we need to review our system before we start expressing righteous anger.

    The biggest obstacle to this whole debate is the refusal of everyone to get past the idea that all undocumented/illegal immigrants came to the US of their own volition and trekked through the desert (or swam across the Rio Grande) to take better paying jobs. The reality is, immigrants come for all sorts of reasons and most fall out of a legal visa status rather than sneak across the border. It’s hard to condemn an 18 year old who was brought here when they were 6 by parents whose refugee application was denied because of a political decision. It’s also hard to justify allowing someone to stay just because they can get a better paying job here. It’s even harder to allow large corporations to increase profits by encouraging illegal immigration as a means of suppressing wages. There needs to be a more nuanced and just way of approaching the matter.

    — JS    May 13, 04:19 PM    #

11. Yeah – we poor rednecks would love some indoor plumbing – that sort of comment really helps a discussion along! Racist? I was a member of the NAACP back in the early sixties when such membership could cause you real problems down here. I support enforcing our laws and I support legal immigration – it is just that simple!

    — bob w    May 13, 04:21 PM    #

12. Why are our ‘illegal immigrants’ who are paying out of state tuition any less deserving of a higher education in our colleges than international students?

    — Shayne    May 13, 04:52 PM    #

13. I applaud NC’s attorney general and am dismayed by the Governor. Illegal immigrants should be treated as illegal and shouldn’t be subsidized by taxpayers.

    — F    May 13, 05:14 PM    #

14. Illegals being allowed to attend colleges clearly discriminates against U.S. citizens and law-abiding foreign students.

    Some may think that there are unlimited seats available to fill in colleges. The truth is, for every admission of an illegal alien to college, an American student is denied because of the limited seats available.

    Since illegal aliens are unlawfully present here and cannot lawfully operate and hold jobs, why should NC taxpayers subsidize their college education? State taxpayers can now breathe a little easier.

    The last time I checked, going to college was not a “job Americans wont’ do.”

    — zeezil    May 13, 06:06 PM    #

15. GREAT NEWS! One incentive for illegal aliens to remain here is taken off the table.

    It’s good to see common sense and the rule of law return to NC state government.

    — zeezil    May 13, 06:11 PM    #

16. Before any bleeding hearts start wailing and gnashing your teeth over this, remember ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION is a CRIME:

    8 U.S.C. 1325 = illegal entry.
    “ (a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;
    misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.”

    — zeezil    May 13, 06:15 PM    #

17. Furthermore, before any bleeding hearts start crying that their civil rights have been violated, KNOW THIS:

    Civil rights pertain ONLY to citizens. The Merriam-Webster online Dictionary defines civil-rights as: “The nonpolitical rights of a citizen; especially: the rights of personal liberty guaranteed to U.S. citizens by the 13th and 14th amendments to the Constitution and by acts of Congress.” If one is not a citizen of the country, civil rights do not apply.

    — zeezil    May 13, 06:19 PM    #

18. To # 1, Matt,

    You are dead wrong.

    Albeit, I now live outside the state where I was born 59 years ago, North Carolina, my family’s ties to the state dates back to the so-called Lost Colony of the last quarter of the 16th century. Indeed, the brother of that man, and my first ancestor in North America arrived at Jamestown in 1610. Indeed, in 1769, my great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather elected to move to the NC Indian territory (Western NC in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mtns) to the hills the Spanish explorers to the area named the Montague Hills, in part, to get away from the anti-English sentiment of tidewater Virginia. That man’s son married the eldest daughter of another Englishman from Edisto Island, SC, who had immigrated to the area for the same reasons. After the so-called Revolutionary War, both men were tried by the nascent State of NC for treason due to being Loyal to the King of England. Indeed, my great great great grandfather elected to side with the Union in the war between the states.

    Where is all of this going? My family has been paying taxes, defending their land from invasion, and going to battle within North America, and elsewhere from the same land in NC since 1769.

    To that end, I see absolultely no reason why persons who have entered this country illegally should be given a free ride on the backs of my ancestors’ hard work.

    Matt, you are clueless. Rome disappeared within years of being invaded. Do you sincerely not understand that the USA has been quietly invaded by over 12 million people who do not share a common bond with those of us who call ourselves “American”?

    Those people need to go home, then apply through the appropriate channels for entry to this country to ensure that they are indeed Americanized. Otherwise, within 20 years this country will be an entirely different place than it is at this very moment. I assure you that my ancestors did not die protecting their land and heritage just so somebody could come along and take it away from their descendants.

    Get a life. Better yet, immigrate to Mexico or Guatemala and take your friends with you.

    JR

    — JR    May 13, 06:22 PM    #

19. These children did not elect to come here and furthermore have not committed any crimes. The only thing they are liable for is “iilegal presence” which is not a crime—it is a CIVIL INFRACTION. Go read your laws again.

    Also, once you are ‘illegally’ in the United States, there is no way to adjust your status to ‘legal’ (unless you have a 245-I) so stop blaming these students for not having proper status or being too lazy to get a green card. It shows that you don’t have a clue about your own immigration laws, which is sad and pathetic.

    Federal law requires that these students get K-12 education and there is nothing in fed. law that forbids them from getting higher education in the USA.

    The fact of the matter is that some less than 140 students are not burdening tax payers; in fact they pay out of state tuition that more than covers their enrollment and makes a PROFIT for NC colleges.

    There is no reason and no justification for denying students with merit higher education. Don’t take your anger on illegal immigration out on students that had absolutely no say in this matter.

    — DreamActivist    May 13, 06:26 PM    #

20. Anyone who believes that there is not extra capacity in colleges and unviersities needs to spend some time with a director of admissions at the 90% of accredited colleges in the US that are not highly selective. The vast majority of colleges are struggling to fill seats and my guess would be that the NC community college system has plenty of open space that needs to be filled…as a matter of fact, these students are probably paying for 5 faculty positions that would not otherwise be able to be funded. I’m a bit disappointed though that nobody has responded to my previous post about whether or not our immigration laws meet our needs and/or match our values….is the default assumption that they don’t and that my assessment is correct?

    — JS    May 13, 06:40 PM    #

21. What happens when they graduate?

    — Ron    May 14, 12:27 AM    #

22. I am amazed at how many people want to take the side of illegals instead of your own country, and yes some are making the issue of illegal immigration a major divider in our society. I hear so much compassion and concern for illegals yet these same people don’t seem to speak up for the disabled American, or come to the aid of the Native American Indians. When is the last time anyone came to the aid of our Natives? How about the Appalachains? If you want to see people struggling, go to either of these forgotten places and watch the children and families struggling to survive. Where is the American dream for them? Who is writting with declarations of great financial support for these groups? That’s all this issue is really about- MONEY! Mexicans come here for MONEY, wealthy people want to keep most of their MONEY, they want cheap labor so they can have more profit. I don’t know about any of you, but I can’t afford anymore profit to go into the pockets of the wealthy, nor can I continue to afford to financially support millions of illegal ailiens. When are the American people going to wise up. Illegal ailiens are only benefiting themselves and the wealthy, the rest of us are paying for them to be here, literally. I haven’t seen any price cuts due to this “cheap labor.” In fact our prices continue to increase to the point that American children area going hungry. To give an example of this, I recently refered an American family to get financial help from a well known international charity and they were denied help because their funds were needed to help the influx of illegal Mexican ailiens. They said they didn’t have enough to go around and they had to make choices, one of which was to give priority to what they termed “refugees” from Mexico. I have given money to this agency every year for 30 years. Taxes- We are so taxed that I can’t even afford college tuition for my legal American kids. I have two kids in college (low cost universities) and I’m workinig 2 full time jobs to pay for their education. On top of that cost, I’m still paying my student loans off (at fairly high interest rates). We can not afford to continue to allow 1.2 million people each year to enter our Country. It is literally bankrupting our economy. Every time someone addresses the facts, racisim is charged. I don’t care if everyone coming into this Country illegally had blonde hair and blue eyes, or green hair and orange eyes, we can’t afford them! Look at the economic problems common to California and Texas, all attributed to the over run of illegal ailiens. Over a dozen hospitals had to close near the border of Texas and Mexico because the illegals bankrupted them. Now the Americans in those areas don’t have adequate medical attention. People are now suffering because of this. Yet some people want to tell everyone else to accept this situation and if you don’t, you must be a racist or inhumane. It is inhumane to continue to take in over a million people each year that we can’t afford. This is a new city being populated each year! Only those not suffering, yet, have the nerve to tell other American to welcome over 1.2 million new illegal Mexican ailliens each year. Talk about elitist! Do your research.

    — Pat    May 14, 01:02 AM    #

23. I have to believe more than ever that liberalism is a mental disorder. Libertines simply cannot use logic, law, custom, tradition, education, jurisprudence, propriety, budgets, indignation, universality, right v wrong, or other things that their mothers should have taught them before kindergarten. I can only presume that they had mothers. Then again…

    — Bob Alklen    May 14, 01:21 AM    #

24. To: JR –

    Thanks for your historical perspective. You left out an important part of history, which is, the invasion of North America by European without the consent or approval of the natives. The illegals are doing just what the European did. Let’s not forget that the European massacre the natives, enslaved others, de-humanized millions, lynch and poisoned in addition to carrying out biological experiments on humans. Shame on us! Shame on us!!

    — John_Adams    May 14, 08:19 AM    #

25. No, these children/students did not come here of their own free will. But their parents/relatives placed them in this situation. So, shouldn’t they be blamed for this situation? The reality is that many of the “nonresident” students cannot afford tuition at this level, or instate without Pell grants and other loans, which citizens and perm. residents are eligible to receive. If we flip the scenario, how many Americans moving to other countries can rely support from the government of the other nation? Hold the nonresident parents of the children accountable, not the American people.

    — Xerrin    May 14, 08:22 AM    #

26. It’s about time someone here in NC got some common sense. Good call NC AG. Illegal is illegal no matter how you slice it. Only 112? That’s 112 too many. Being partially illegal—with your parents being totally illegal is like being a little pregnant.

    — bigfruitbasket    May 14, 08:40 AM    #

27. Hey #1 Matt, what part of illegal do you not understand? By the way, any illegal act is also unethical by definition. Tell the Governor of North Carolina.

    It IS ultimately the fault of any illegal alien who has not bothered to become a documented American, yet wants all the rights and privileges as an American citizen. I didn’t fight in combat to protect and secure a way of life for them.

    As adults, they are responsible for their legal status as a citizen in this country. Furthermore, illegal aliens have NO rights of any kind as Americans, regardless of what type of folk lore you would like to devise. They have not exercised ‘the right’ to pay taxes either. What gall you have sir to make a case for illegal aliens whatever their stripe. Wake up dream activists and interpret the laws correctly! Stop theft of taxpayer money by enabling them.

    — Thomas    May 14, 09:39 AM    #

28. 1. The right of illegal immigrants to a K-12 education is not a product of a law passed by elected representatives. It is the result of judical edict.

    2. The costs of educating a community college student from out of state is not covered by their tuition. The state subisidizes those costs.

    3. My family immigrated to the United States legally. It was a challange, and it took a long time to obtain the visa. Everyone should play by the rules.

    4. If the immigration laws of the United States need to be changed, they should be changed in the elected legislature, not by the governor of the state of North Carolina.

    5. While people can not be illegal, their presence in the United States can be illegal. If I were to go to England, or any other country, as a tourist and try to work I would be deported. We do not have the right to go anywhere in the world we want and do whatever we want. This is without regard to how we wish the world existed.

    — Bill    May 14, 09:41 AM    #

29. #24 – Let us also not forget that our “glorious” country took over land that was Mexico, kicking out the population who didn’t look right (or who had nice land…)

    Other things that have been illegal: harboring fugitive slaves, sitting at multi-racial lunch counters, riding on the front of the bus if you were black.

    Other things that have been legal: shipping arms all over the world to dictatorial regimes, overthrowing democratically elected governments, strike-breaking, slavery, and Native American slaughter.

    I’m SO sorry if I don’t quake at the idea that I’m supportive of people who are called “illegal” by those who don’t understand how difficult it is for people to get papers.

    JS, you’re absolutely right—if we’re going to have laws that are just, we need laws that make immigration not so expensive that those who need it cannot access it, not with waiting times so long that your life must be put on hold to get a visa, and not so politically biased that legitimate refugees are left in danger.

    — K    May 14, 09:44 AM    #

30. Having worked with international students for years it is hard to balance the struggle international students face in order to study in the U.S. compared to ya’ll come it doesn’t matter philosphy for illegals. Based on the logic of granting Illigals an education those who pursue the I-20 route would have better luck crossing the border circumventing the SEVIS system entirely. Maybe they already are but then we just defeated the whole purpose of accounting for and screening non U.S. students. Our process of attracting and educating the best and brightest from other countries becomes a joke. We make it hard for those who would seek to come legally and make it easy for those who defy the law. How is that right or for that matter secure?

    — Stan Cram    May 14, 10:03 AM    #

31. The level of discourse on this question is atrocious and intellectually lazy. So-called “Illegals” are only constructed as such because of their ethnicity and where they are from. Its not like you hear about “illegal Poles, Irish, Swedes,” but only of Mexican “illegals.” Why do we now enforce the laws when these “Illegals” happen to be Mexican and Indigenous? If we want to apply labels to people, then the first “illegals” came in the form of Pilgrims.

    — JAH    May 14, 10:27 AM    #

32. Oh poor K, so lost in your idealistic world that you’re blind to today’s reality. I would like to know how your ancestors came into this country. Did they save for months or years to come over on steamship at the turn of the century? Did they come here with nothing in their pocket and built a life for their family through their own hard work and not on the backs of their neighbors? Or did they walk cross the border and head to the local SS office to get a check, a subsidized apartment, free health care and education for their children?

    You ask us to not blame the poor children for their parent’s transgressions, yet you condemn today’s America for the acts of our ancestors. This is just another example of the ol’ liberal double standard. Look at the issue with your eyes open and the rose colored glasses off. Yes, in all of history societies have conquered and enslaved others. Some of the conquerors include the native tribes of America and the African tribes. Does this justify what happened 100, 200, 500 years ago? No of course not. But neither does it justify allowing certain people to ignore modern society’s laws and get special treatment.

    The illegal immigrant issue transcends education. It includes health care, housing, municipal services, etc. While allowing 100+ illegal immigrant students to attend public institutions might not “harm” anyone, it is the compounding of these “allowances” that have created the immigration backlash. Have you been to an emergency room lately and seen the waiting area filled with illegal immigrants with head colds waiting to get their free prescription for antibiotics while you have to fill out paper work and pay in advance before you get seen for what may be a medical emergency? I have. It’s not just Latin American folks either. It’s the elderly Russians who never paid a dime into SS or taxes even, yet come to the USA in their old age and immediately receive an apartment, SS and Medicare. There are other examples I’m sure.

    The issue is not about allowing these students into NC institutions; it is about giving people who do not follow the rules special treatment that we do not afford our own needy and deserving citizens. I did a lot of work in rural education. I have been to Reservations in the Plains and Southwest. I have been to Appalachia. These are the people liberals should be fighting for. These are the people whose ancestors were either here before Europeans or were some of the first Europeans to arrive. They are the ones whose children are in their situation due to no fault of their own and deserve our attention. America needs to get its own house in order before making exceptions for people who break the law as it is presently written. Don’t forget that prior to 1965, immigration was strictly enforced until Ted Kennedy decided we should open up the borders to everyone. He theorized that everyone who would want to come into this country would enter within 5 years and there would be no immigration problem. Wrong again Senator. He created the problem then, and refuses to address it now.

    So dear K, you can choose to put your glasses back on and live in your dandy world, or look at the big picture and fight for American rights before anyone else’s.

    — DJ    May 14, 10:40 AM    #

33. An interesting train of discussions which unfortunately all rely on emotional arguments and not on the pros and cons of immigration in a global economy. From a practical standpoint, the US economy would be seriously damaged by restrictive immigration laws. If you doubt that, look at Germany and Spain, who are suffering demographic implosions such as we would experience without immigrants and the vital role they play in expanding our demographics especially for young workers. Do we want those new members of the work force to be uneducated and unskilled?

    — Vic Padelford    May 14, 10:44 AM    #

34. JAH – there are not 13 million or more illegal Swedes, Poles, or Irish in the country.

    Having said that, if any of these nationalities are here illegally, they need to be deported as well as Mexicans and other Hispanics here illegally. We do not have a contiguous border with Sweden, Poland or Ireland. It does make a difference.

    Thank God one of our states is doing something effective about illegal aliens.

    — Muap Conners    May 14, 10:45 AM    #

35. Before everyone takes a look at this comment and posts another comment that restates a previous post, read this.

    This forum is meant for public discourse and intellectual discussion of ideas.

    First, we should distinguish illegal immigration from all countries to that of Mexico. It seems as if many of those who are writing are focusing on Mexican illegal immigration, which is fine. Make sure that you are clear with the racial biases which you hold, but also remember that we are living in 2008…

    As for those who comment on the immigrants who don’t get into the country legally: Its not as easy as that sounds. Often times, countries put up multiple obstacles for people to have legal immigrant rights. For most, those that do want to legally do so can’t afford it. It just financially is impossible. What I find amusing is those who post on sites about the legality of immigrants and how they need to “find a way to immigrate legally” don’t realize what this means financially to a person. These people who complain are often the ones who complain about the socioeconomic divide between the haves and have-nots. It seems as if you are trying to just push the illegal immigrants into the have-not pile just to comfort yourself and your status. Equal rights for all humans is a great thing. We as humans should strive to do what we can to equalize access to education, jobs, etc., not hinder it.

    As far as those who have the same mindset as Bill with just living life as it is and not pursuing change in a system which we may not agree with. Wrong. What would the country be like if no one fought for what they thought was right? We would be living in a less developed country, and would be doing what we could to get out of that situation.

    Access to colleges should be universal. As for the comment which states that college seats are not unlimited, this would be true for the top tier schools. Yet, these are the seats that we WANT true intellectuals to take so that intellectual progress may be made. As for “lesser ranked” schools, there will always be a need to fill seats. Some schools struggle to fill their incoming class. Do the research.

    What everything comes down to: people need to stop being selfish and inconsiderate of what others may be going through. Get informed of the situation and then make comments which you can back up. Colleges often want this cultural diversity due to the sparking of new ideas. Maybe the way you were brought up or the different global mindset might lead a person to have a breakthrough that could have an impact on all of society. Diversity is very important in education, moreso than many other fields.

    — MT    May 14, 11:51 AM    #

36. In regards to JS’s comments that there are probably plenty of empty seats in NC community colleges and that the tuition would probably pay for five extra instructors. Doubtful. The ability to instruct students is heavily guided by funding from the State of North Carolina, of which community colleges receive a neglible amount (on a per pupil basis) when compared to the University of NC system. At my college, we do not have difficulty in “filling seats.” Only once in my nine years of teaching has the administration even mentioned enrollment figures, and that was to say that the numbers were slightly down from the year before. Given the NC community college tuition rate..check these facts online somewhere, I doubt that 25 or 50 students enrolled full time could pay the salary of one full-time employee. NC community college education is a great bargain, funded overwhelmingly by the NC taxpayers. Let me also note that as instructors we have no idea of who may or may not be an illegal immigrant. I’ve never asked in class, nor been told to ask, nor had a student volunteer the information.

    — Community College Instructor in NC    May 14, 11:53 AM    #

37. Some stats to help-

    Undocumented immigrants in the United States grew from 5 to 12 million in 10 years

    500,000 people per year since 2000

    40% of these undocumented immigrants entered legally then stayed

    6.6 million households have one undocumented immigrant

    40% of that 6.6 have children

    2/3 of that 40% are US born children

    The computroler of Texas calculated a $475 million surplus from taxes related to undocumented immigrants versus benefits paid out to them.

    Congress approved a fence along the Mexican border at a cost of $1.2 billion

    — Ben    May 14, 12:51 PM    #

38. To MT, I can’t afford a big house, so according to your logic, I should find one I like and move my family in anyway, since it’s not fair that others can afford a big house and I can’t.

    An illegal immigrant from Africa, Eastern Europe, the Middle East, etc. is equally unwelcome when they do not abide by the laws of this generous country.

    According to Ben’s stats, if they were able to follow the rules in the first place to come here, then they can follow the rules to stay here.

    — DJ    May 14, 01:06 PM    #

39. Seeing how illegal immigration has seemingly picked up the pace in the last 10 years, I think we all need to step back a second and realize the complexity of the situation. Right now, people on both sides of the issue view the other with deep mistrust. One side thinks the other is made up mostly of xenophobes and racists who are afraid of diversity. The other side thinks the other has total diregard for the laws of this land and would have no problem letting anyone for whom they feel sorry enter into the country.

    Hopefully, enough people will eventually realize there are legitimate points to be made all around, and it would be in this nation’s best interest for all of us to put our heads together and come up with a reasonable solution.

    — Jason P.    May 14, 03:00 PM    #

40. To # 24, John_Adams,

    Oddly enough, the Europeans who moved to the Indian territory of NC in the mid-18th century did not harm the citizens of the two (2) nations occupying that region of the Southeast, namely, the Cherokee Nation, and the Catawba Nation. Indeed, interaction with citizens of these nations was just the opposite, meaning marriage, then breeding, and not vice versa without a commitment to family. For example, check the last name of the Chef of the Chreokee Nation when the citizens of that country were forced by the USA to migrate to the Oklahoma Territory. His father was my great great great great great great grandfather’s brother. Beyond that, many of the early English, German, and Scotish Irsih setllers to the region married members of both of these Nations, and as such many people who live in the region today are descended from those unions.

    Yes, the earliest Europeans did, indeed, bring alien diseases with them, i.e., small pox, that literally killed thousands, if not millions of the citizens of the various native Nations, but the dates here are early 16rh century, and the Europeans involved are fishmen from Portugal fishing the George’s Banks off Cape Cod, then coming ashore to prepare the catch for the long voyage back to Portugal.

    Remeber that one of the Virginia Nation’s chief’s daughter actually moved to England after her marriage to an Englishman. To that end, it is best not to confuse how the peasant class of English dealt with the citizens of native Nations in New England, and the Spanish settlers did in Florida, and elsewhere.

    JR

    — JR    May 14, 08:23 PM    #

41. As you all know, community college students are often working one or even two jobs to pay their own tuition. Anything colleges can do to lower tuition and make class sizes more manageable benefits legal, taxpaying students. This is neither racist nor xenophobic. I applaud NC for its efforts; other colleges should follow suit.

    — Mari    May 20, 12:34 PM    #

42. Citizenship is not something you earn, but something you are born in to. Education in a democracy (and the community college in particular) is geared toward providing access to higher education, based on the belief that education should not be limited to only the elite ranks of society. Education for only the elite has been part of US history. I sincerely hope it is not part of our future. While in the past, minority groups and women have been entirely excluded from the educational process, more recent decades have brought about educational access for all. I work in higher education, and at a community college in particular, because I hold strongly to the value of open access. If citizenship had something to do with academic ability or potential for success, I might be persuaded to consider closing the door to those who could not succeed. (Even then, I would argue that it is our job as educators to educate students, regardless of their starting point — but that’s another discussion for another time.) However, since citizenship is related to birth location (a factor competely outside of our control), it is hard to see citizenship as a legitimate limiting factor. I am proud to work for an institution that does not discriminate based on national origin.

    — Cathy    May 20, 04:42 PM    #

43. To # 42,

    What planet do you live on? Citizenship in the USA is available by birth as well as “earned” as you call it, but the latter requires following a mandated path via legal immigration.

    And, a college education has, indeed, been available to women in the USA for a very long time, i.e., in the private sector NC’s Salem Academy for girls, and Salem College for women; and in the public sector, originially UNC-G was just for women. The state’s university’s like ECU, Appalachian, and Western C. have been admitting women from the get go.

    The issue here isn’t who should or shouldn’t be educated. This is about whether or not NC tax payers should bear the burden of providing illegal immigrants with a college education.

    JR

    — JR    May 21, 07:42 AM    #

44. Many are saying that the taxpayers should not have to support the children of illegal immigrants, but I believe they are just “American” kids. As many shared their opinion about this matter, I would like to share mine about the current status of the students, not their parents’.

    Unlike their parents, they grew up in US just like the “lawful” children going through k-12. These children are not aware and should not resposible for the parents’ decision that is causing this disaster. They are Americans (even if some would not admit it) because they lived in US and will be living in US to support the community.

    The youths who would graduate from the US colleges will not do harm to America. If America desires to educate only the students of legal status who also has parents of the same, then k-12 public education should be banned altogether so they would not have false hopes. If this can’t be done, then college education should be openned to them.

    Althought the illegal immigration today is a huge problem in US, there were several waves of immigration in US history. Please remember that the young generation should not suffer for this problem as they will become
    the next America. These students will not go away or leave because US is their home. Choosing to exclude them from college education will affect the future of America.

    Some might say this is going too far (as it is just about should NC tax payers provide illegal immigrants for college education or not), but this is the same problem we’re having all over the US.

    So these people should not be labelled as “illegal immigrants” but American students who will become American citizens to support America. Their parents might not have abided the law, they might have not paid taxes. But the 2nd generation will. Is it right to bar them from education just because the students are the children of illegal immigrants?

    Although the parents are responsible for the problems, the children should not be rejected because of their parents’ illegal status. If they did not have any choice when their parents made a decision to come to US, then why should they have to pay?

    The important thing to notice is that the youths who are sons and daughters of illegal immigrants are labelled the same with their parents. The term illegal mean “in violation of law.” So the parents did, but did the kids violate the law? by being born here? Is illegality supposed to be passed down to their children?

    As I was reading this post, I had so many questions rising up and down within me. I understand that many are angered and uncomfortable because of the illegal immigrants. But the children? What will become of them? So if it isn’t our problem we ignore it?

    I hope that we see the complexity of this problem and come up with a rational answer within ourselves.

    HK

    — HK    May 21, 10:39 PM    #

45. Here it goes for all the know it alls. First of all I agree with the person that said it will take a life time, and we are talking about 12 yrs to get your documents straightened out. Do you think if the proces takes all this long and costs a fortune, oh and this is if the immigration official decides that they are qualified for them. Which means if you they are coming to america on thier own to feed his or her starving family there is o way you have a choice but to enter illegaly. Now what this subject is really about. Illegal Students, there is no such thing. America is their home now if they’ve been here for so many year were are they going to move back where? In a cave in their country? They need to get an education . Either you want it or not they are everyones future along with all of our young folk in college including me. I as a student experience every day on campus how american students don’t care to attend classes when other folks are dieing to go to college. Also why everyone here focuses on Mexicans, come on please immigrations is from every where else other than usa. Plus everyone loves mexican food. And also no one is paying for this students education but themselves and contributing extra by paying out of state tuitions. They are not even allowed to ask for financial aid or any kind of grant.

    — Latino American Citizen    May 27, 11:48 PM    #

46. Gee, I’m just a community college prof. in California but without my Mexican students I wouldn’t be able to fill my engineering physics courses. It seems that many of the white kids are in majors like communications, film studies, etc….. My Mexican students transfer to a four year institution and are now building your roads and bridges!

    — GK    May 29, 02:34 AM    #

Previous: Colorado Set to Fill Hole in Higher-Education Construction
Next: U. of Colorado at Boulder Wants to Hire 'Professor of Conservative Thought'