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Prior days' news: By date | Search This week's print issue Back issues: By date | Search April 18, 2008Arizona Proposal Would Prohibit Race-Based Student GroupsAn Arizona legislative committee has passed an amendment to a routine homeland-security bill that would prohibit students at the state’s public universities and community colleges from organizing groups based on race. The amendment was approved by the Arizona House Appropriations Committee on Wednesday. It still awaits a vote by the state’s full House and Senate. The amendment, introduced by State Rep. Russell K. Pearce, a Republican, would also allow state officials to withhold funds from public schools sponsoring activities that “denigrate American values and the teachings of Western civilization.” The proposal was added to Senate Bill 1108, a measure that has nothing to do with education but was intended to allow designees of mayors and police chiefs to serve on homeland-security advisory councils. “This bill basically says, ‘You’re here. Adopt American values,’” State Rep. John Kavanagh, a Republican, told The Arizona Republic. “‘If you want a different culture, then fine, go back to that culture,’” he said. —JJ Hermes Posted on Friday April 18, 2008 | Permalink |Comments
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Wow – I wonder if they actually have a definition for what these so called “American Values” are, what they’re seeing as a violation of those values, and why they don’t fit within the constitutional protections to freedom of speech. My mother taught me that “American Values” were things like inclusion, tolerance, freedom of expression (including cultural expression), cooperation and compromise. America is the sum of its parts, not some monolithic whole that all citizens must submit to. That would be, um, fascism…. I think these men are simply afraid of what America is becoming under the influence of our new brothers and sisters from other cultures, and it’s a fear that likely has its roots in racism. Perhaps they should seek out a culture that suits their blind nationalism better, but that wouldn’t be the America I know.
— manoman Apr 18, 01:14 PM #
It is very disappointing to see that Arizona, my ex-home state, is becoming more and more racist. The state used to be a very proud mix of all cultures, celebrating those who made the state prior to the US purchase, but it seems as though it has now become a state that wants to disown everyone who is not caucasian. Native Arizonans, for the most part, are not fanatical about denying those who actually developed that state. It is because of all Americans (including those who are undocumented) that the state was able to succeed.
— K. ex-Arizonan Apr 18, 01:38 PM #
Er, aren’t the pursuit of happiness and freedom of association a couple of those American values? If students want to associate with other {race}-Americans, why should the state have a right to discriminate against those students vs the chess club or the anime club?
— jenjen Apr 18, 02:41 PM #
How is it anti-American to say that you can’t organize a group based on race?
— Dennis Apr 18, 03:36 PM #
Please study your history. Slavery was legalized in America through a series of laws restricting rights. This law is another sign of a very disturbing trend in this wonderful country. We are letting fearful narrow minded people run this country…that is not good for anyone!
— Randolph Apr 18, 03:48 PM #
Dennis, it is our constitutional right to “assemble”. So, it is anti-American to stop people from assembling as long as their assembly is lawful. Arizona thinks it should be illegal for people to assemble, if they “chose” to assemble based on race.
— Randolph Apr 18, 03:55 PM #
Same thing on the East coast…
We actually have started instituting separate graduation ceremonies for groups based on race and sex now.
We went through the entire 60s to overturn segregation; and now the next generation is heading right back into it again. Voluntarily this time, so I guess it’s okay.
Oh well.
— NYMOM Apr 18, 04:13 PM #
Dr. Kavanagh should be ashamed to be a professor of justice studies. Whose justice? How about “just-us (white folk)”?
— ASU Justice Studies Grad Apr 18, 04:17 PM #
the logic goes like this: if race assembly is banned, why not assembly based on sex and gender; next is religion. no assembly allowed here because it violates American values; and if workers assemble to advance their interests through trade unions, why not prohibit this form of assembly. then there are those political groups that refuse to articulate” American values” as defined by the Arizona legislators. of course we might want to ban the local affiliate of the National Association of Manufacturers and other business groups, but only if they call meetings
— stanley aronowitz Apr 18, 04:17 PM #
The present trend is to teach and embrace diversity and inclusion and it seems that Russell K. Pearce needs to go back to school. I do hope the good people of Arizona realize that this bill is not good for their state or our country’s values.
— Kathy Lauckner Apr 18, 04:29 PM #
Well, I guess that means all those Irish-American, Italian-American, Polish-American groups, etc. are going to be illegal in Arizona. I wonder what the members of those groups will think when they find themselves being regarded and treated as un-American? I live on the East Coast like #7 and I have seen all of the above groups and more organize into fraternal societies on colleges campuses, and even in the wider non-college community.
I have to agree with #5 who laments, as I do, the narrow-minded group that has managed to dominate our politics. Somehow, narrow-minded is not what comes to mind when I think about the words in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution (despite our nation’s clear shortcomings in living up to the ideals embedded in those documents).
I wonder if there are any true American patriots in Arizona who will mobilize their energies to repeal this amendment to their Homeland Security bill?
Perhaps they can title their repeal effort the “I, too, am America” amendment.
— Rick Apr 18, 04:44 PM #
The old N.M. expression attributed to N.M. territorial Governor Manuel Armijo in 1850—-“Poor New Mexico, so far from heaven and so close to Texas!” ought to be amended. Substitute Arizona for Texas….
— Red or Green? Apr 18, 04:50 PM #
I suggest emailing your comments to Rep Pearce at: rpearce@azleg.gov.
He really needs to hear them.
— michelle Apr 18, 04:50 PM #
Why has Mr Kavanagh’s bill seen the light of day..? For years now we have fought the war on drugs. Now we fight the war on illegal immigration. What do they have in common? U.S. consumers. Cheap drugs, cheap labor…not really that complicated. Take a tour through Mexico the next chance you get. Coming north for better jobs, higher pay, better housing…it’s not rocket science. The root problem is the broken Mexican government and the greedy American consumer….
— ShayHolland Apr 18, 04:52 PM #
Hmmm…how about mandating a constitutional law course for the members of the AZ legislature instead. Possible cases for review should include Southworth v. Wisconsin and Brown v. Board of Education. Maybe we should include Scopes in there just to make sure. The syllabus should also include reviews of the 1st, 2nd, and 14th amendments as they pertain to public institutions of higher education.
— JS Apr 18, 04:58 PM #
How many of your campuses allow caucasian-only groups? Wouldn’t that be a “race”-based group? I don’t agree with the AZ Rep., but I think you’d better find a better rationale than has so far been expressed in these responses. By the way, I’d love to see the section about “American Values” litigated – that should be fun to watch.
— jc Apr 18, 05:05 PM #
For Red or Green, Poor Arizona, they got their governor from New Mexico and we all know what NM Governors are like.
— FEL Apr 18, 05:12 PM #
I couldn’t find John Kavanaugh’s contact info but here’s what I emailed Pearce:
Dear Representative Pearce,
It has come to my attention, (and very soon to my family and friends in Arizona) that you have introduced a bill that would prohibit students at state universities from organizing groups based upon race?
I’m thinking, that could not be since it would violate the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. So my question is, is it that right or is this just some crazy propaganda meant to make republicans look like racists?
If this is true, why not take it to the next step of banning groups based upon religion? It makes just about as much sense!
Michelle XXXX
— michelle Apr 18, 06:12 PM #
Most Arizonans think of Pearce as both a bigot and a grandstander. Most Americans know state legislatures to be regional embarrassments from time to time. The bill will not stand judicial scrutiny. ‘Tis best to be amused with small minds and move on.
— wgw Apr 18, 06:12 PM #
Most readers of this bill believe it would outlaw Mexican-American Studies programs and courses at high schools and universities, and that it would ban specific books, such as “Occupied America”, from classes as instructors would have to submit syllabi to be vetted for materials that “denigrate” the United States …
— dnb Apr 18, 06:35 PM #
Sure, let’s organize a White Race club. No problem, right? RIGHT? We have a problem in Arizona… tons of illegals forcing all wages downward. Illegals committing crimes. A little thing, but should I have to speak spanish to order a freaking whopper? Why doesn’t Mexico take care of their people? Because we enable that corrupt government. They find it more profitable to export drugs and their own people. WAKE UP! The racism charge is old and common… soooo leftist of you.
— Ricky Sprouls Apr 18, 07:02 PM #
#21, the problem with this bill is not undocumented citizens of Arizona, but not being able to gather based on race. Are we Nazi Germany or what? I thought we all learned about America being the “melting pot”, which conjures feelings of openness towards other’s cultures/races. America would be much richer if we could learn from one another.
Unfortunately the bill is racist because it discriminates against others solely because they are different; and though old and common that’s what it is, racist!
— K. ex-Arizonan Apr 18, 07:36 PM #
This proposal is bigotry pure and simple, and an old, old story. We’ll have this with us in America for a long time to come, as we have for a long time in the past. But every one of these little acts of racism should be reported and resisted as we work to become a better society.
— Tom Benson Apr 18, 07:59 PM #
Isn’t homeland security where Native Americans gather around and protect their land? Just wondering what they would say are “American values…”
— stunned Apr 18, 09:13 PM #
Not a big fan of the legislation, but most of your arguments are weak. Why should public funds (allocations to official student organizations) be used to support groups that are open only to those of a certain race? Is racism OK as long as its practiced by the minority? What happens when the hispanics become the majority? Are they already in large parts of AZ?
— John Apr 18, 10:29 PM #
Interesting #21…Mr. Sprouls!
The bill has nothing to do with Mexico. It would make it illegal to form any group….including African-American, Irish-American, etc. As for your comment about having to speak Spanish to order a “freaking” whopper…..hmm, do we have an official national language? And, how do you know that those who are speaking Spanish aren’t U.S. citizens? Why don’t you go work for Burger King and speak your English to the customers, if that’s what you’re looking for. Unfortunately (and I am caucasian myself), most caucasians can’t be bothered working for minimum wage at places like BK, so it seems to be left for those in the lower socio-economic classes…..namely African-Americans and Latinos/as.
Get a grip and get a life! I live in a border state as well and know the problems we face. It’s about immigration and border security, not race and people’s identities. If you want to complain about a lack of security, then do so…..but don’t put down everyone who is not caucasian, and blame them for your own problems and misgivings.
— Carsonk Apr 18, 10:44 PM #
Sounds like a bunch of pots calling a bunch of kettles black to me.
Although I must admit I am having difficulty in determining which bunch is the pots and which is the kettles. Oops, perhaps I should not have presumed to use black as the standard, acceptable color for pots and kettles in the old adage. Please feel free to go ahead and insert a more appropriate color: brown, red, yellow, white. Uh, you might want to rethink the white, as it definitely is not even a part of the equation. Oh, wait a minute…I don’t mean to imply that all kettles are black or brown or red or yellow, and I certainly don’t mean to imply that all pots are black, or brown, or red or yellow. I mean, it’s like, you know…it’s like…black kettles can hang with black kettles…or pots..uh like, uh…I mean. And brown pots can hang with brown…like you know.. But hey, they all got freedom to do what they want! I mean, we got a constitution! We got laws! Dude, you can’t legislate color or choices based on color, right? Uh, with one minor exception: this obviously excludes white kettles…they certainly should not presume the freedom to hang with just white kettles. I mean, how absurd. That’s illegal!
Bottom line is that as long as they are American pots and American kettles and that they act American…well, that’s what’s most important.
— Jester Apr 18, 11:02 PM #
No student organization should exclud anyone based on their socially defined race. It has been my experience that groups such as an African American Student Union, Hispanic Student’s Union, American Indian caucus, etc. are campus groups which focus on issues that impact these specific communities but their memberships have always been open to students who support their principles without regard to the student’s ethnic identity. So what is the purpose of legislation of this kind?
— Dr. Joseph L. Graves Jr. Apr 19, 02:30 PM #
Good one, Jester!
— jon Apr 19, 02:33 PM #
This legislation appears to ban groups that are related to race. Currently none of these groups exclude any person from participating, they are just related to the interest of African American or Asian American students, for example. Since anyone can currently participate in these groups, the ban appears to suggest that the interests of African Maericans, Asian Americans, etc. are not consistent with American Values and should be banned.
This could appear racist since what is being banned is the right to assemble as a group interested in minority issues regardless of the openness of the membership.
— Cher Apr 19, 07:17 PM #
to reply to #16.
yes i have seen many caucasian only groups in universities, they overwhelm most campuses. they are called fraternities and sororities. so if Arizona is going to start segregating based on race, all fraternities and sororities will have to be disbanded as well and intermix with the rest of the crow.
— juan Apr 19, 09:19 PM #
Good points #25! There is way too much racial segregation in the universities now and it is being enoucraged and presented as “tolerance” and “inclusion.” It is not and we all know that. These organizations do not welcome anyone who is not EXCATLY like the racial group they represent. And these groups are becoming increasingly specific and exclusive. It is a very negative trend and something has to be done about that. I am not sure if introducing such a bill could resolve this, but the “apartmentalization” of identity on our campuses is not a healthy trend at all.
— Ieva Apr 20, 11:09 AM #
#25 and #32, I don’t know what your racial backgrounds are, but can you tell me the last time you attended a meeting or an event put on by an interest group that organizes around issues of race? I have been in leadership positions in organizations of that nature and in most cases people who were involved were of different racial backgrounds and we also co-sponsored events with other groups of a variety of racial and ethnic backgrounds as well. Whites have the luxury of assembling exclusively with other Whites given their majority status and attempts to exclude racial minorities on the basis of their race, but somehow that’s not problematic. If whites were doing well with “tolerating” (which is a problematic term in itself) and being “inclusive” maybe the need for these groups wouldn’t be so great. It’s funny though…prejudice and descrimination is okay when it is enacted upon racial and ethnic minorities, but when whites aren’t a part of something they don’t show remote interest in (I know b/c when there are campus wide events dealing with issues important to minority communities VERY FEW whites show up) they are up in arms…give me a break! Lets see how many Whites are going to join the Latino/a American Student League…
— Nice Apr 20, 06:44 PM #
This legialative amendment itself seems a quintessential violation of the American values embodied in the First Amendment.
— David Apr 21, 01:04 AM #
Race is a social construct. Yes, there is such a thing as White Latin people. Columbus and his crew spoke Spanish. Hence, Hispanics can be of any race according to the US Census. Hispanics are White, or Black, or Asian. It varies.
— Lou Apr 21, 02:50 AM #
To #25 and #32, see #28 and #33.
Anyone can join these groups and I have personally seen student groups that had members of other ethnic groups in their organization, although most of the time, others (e.g. White students) didn’t appear to be interested in joining. For example, anyone can join the NAACP. The organization has White members, but most White people in the country, to my knowledge, aren’t interested in paying dues and joining. I don’t care if you support/don’t support the legislation, just don’t distort the facts.
— Ve Apr 21, 08:00 AM #
John Mccain is an Arizona senator. What are his views on this issue?
— Frank Apr 21, 08:10 AM #
This bill is patently racist and against recent Latina/o immigrants. the funny thing is that these “race based” groups argue within the context of “Western Civilization.” These groups, in short, are “western” at their core since the values they espouse are “equality, fraternity, liberty, social justice, and human rights.” Would could be more western???
— JAH Apr 21, 08:51 AM #
Where oh Where is our hero Hussein Obama? We need that open dialogue about race!!! Pearce is often an idiot, but I see where he is going… leftists want, want, want, whine, whine, whine… I’d rather call an end to the balkanization of America. Hussein Obama! We need you, haha.
— Freddie MacKay Apr 21, 09:07 AM #
Consider this – there’s an African-American Law Students group on campus. Imagine the outcry if there was a White Law Students group.
— Paul Apr 21, 09:13 AM #
It’s about time someone banned these racist groups. Racism should not be tolerated.
— Steve Apr 21, 09:36 AM #
Let them pass it. . . this would mean that NO ONE, including European Americans could gather based on race.
Oh . . . Paul
Typically the reason that African, Hispanic, Native and Asian Americans convene groups is because they have not found a welcoming environment in the existing organizations. Moreover, such organizations were not interested in addressing concerns impacting these groups.
If you study your history, this is how and why various church groups of basically the same faith, BET network, and the Miss Black America was founded.
It really is important to know all of your history and not just those parts to fuel certain ideological perspectives.
— Kimberly Apr 21, 09:44 AM #
Or is this proposed “law” supposed to divert our attention from the inaction of state legislatures to move on real issues such as the credit crisis, loss of jobs and the shrinkage of property tax revenues—those issues do not generate as much visceral response as these kind of “non-laws” that seek to ban legal activities. And those folks that are supporters of this bill—fell into the trap…
— Caliban Apr 21, 09:44 AM #
Banning student groups that assemble based on common ground would be a wrong, and defeat the purpose of most university student groups. My husband and I met in college because he was the president of Club Latino, and I was the president of the Italian Cultural Society – both of our organizations welcomed anyone and everyone not only to have fun, but to learn about one another and to educate about issues. Cultural education mitigates racism, and these types of assemblies should be encouraged.
— Pamela, Director of an international exchange organization Apr 21, 09:50 AM #
Yo, groups based on race are RACIST; what’s not to get, it is fairly simple and elementary logic: so all of the calls for the end of racisim mean the end of these groups. FYI, this bill is also the logical extension of all of the hate crimes laws that have been passed, you need to connect the dots. I love it when all of these people who call others racist (when defending their racists views and behaviors) have to look in the mirror and be judged by their own criteria …but of course THEY get to be racist because that is what racism and being a racist is all about. This sydrome is most prevalent among professors and particularly the ones teaching various “studies” (unfortunately) rather than being someplace else walking their talk and doing something real about their various complaints.
— jc Apr 21, 09:53 AM #
I attended ASU during the time when the MLK holiday was opposed by similar groups in the legislature and when Accuracy in Acedemia got its start by attacking a professor in ASU’s political science department. There has always been an ugly element in the state that needs to be beat back into its cave from time-to-time. Everyone in academia should contact the state legislature and let them know how out of step this bill is, and there should be a national boycott of Arizona by all academic organizations if this ammendement passes.
— Rob Apr 21, 10:47 AM #
I normally try to ignore trolls, but on this occasion I’ll spend a few words. jc, you are a jackass and a troll. This is why I will not respond to the content of your post, only to your obvious hatefulness. You know your writings are meant only to stir up anger among those who otherwise would try to debate the issue with cool heads. Please go preach your nonsense on a street corner somewhere until you’re willing to step up to the level of the Chronicle of Higher Education.
— DennisMM Apr 21, 11:44 AM #
DennisMM – It occurs to me that you do not respond to jc’s comments because you cannot. His assertion that “groups based on race are RACIST” is hard to argue with. Much easier to hurl invective rather than admit the truth of this. JC – though some of your generalizations are a bit broad, there is a great deal of truth in what you said. I admire your honesty and courage in saying it.
— TRB Apr 21, 12:06 PM #
“The old N.M. expression attributed to N.M. territorial Governor Manuel Armijo in 1850—-“Poor New Mexico, so far from heaven and so close to Texas!” ought to be amended. Substitute Arizona for Texas….”
Not to be picky: but wasn’t the quote “Poor MEXICO, so far from GOD and so close to the US.”
You appear to have diluted it somehow.
— NYMOM Apr 21, 12:19 PM #
The bill states that that organizations that have a race-based criteria will be prohibited. I don’t know about your campuses but we do not let any of our student groups discriminate on the basis of race. For example, our Black Students Association is open to ALL students. Although I think all of their current members are black, white students and other non-black students are permitted to join the group.
— LG in Alabama Apr 21, 12:28 PM #
Well, I have it on good authority that most of these race based groups hold secret meetings in which they ritually slaughter caucasian babies and drink their blood. And you thought only the Jews did that.
— first marci Apr 21, 12:32 PM #
Oh I just had to stop and check my calendar to make sure we are in 2008. This is ridiculous! And for everyone else who is in agreement do you really work in higher education? I’m going to refer back to Boyer on this one and state what a Campus provides-an open culture. How can a campus be closed to only American Values? What are those anyway? American Values are established by us, the people of America, those of many different races, and cultures. It’s all of our cultures that add to our America and by doing this it only causes a line drawn once again between “your” America and “our” America. Seriously, who are these people? Oh, I know! The type whose children I would never let mine near!
— V Apr 21, 12:41 PM #
What has happened in Arizona is an overextension of a cultural reaction to affirmative action and anti-immigrant attitudes. These are extreme views that are completely and utterly anti-american. The day that we allow elected officials to define what it means to be an American is the day we all cede our time-honored traditions and values of inclusion and freedom. This is some scary stuff.
— j in PAS Apr 21, 01:44 PM #
AZ continues to shoot itself in the foot. When do the conservtives plan to secede and start their own country?
— Al Apr 21, 01:55 PM #
The sooner we get past this “diversity” nonsense and start celebrating excellence instead, the better off we will be as a nation.
— BH Apr 21, 02:08 PM #
You all have your knickers in a knot about very little. This is a bill which somebody proposed in order to satisfy his own crankiness and impress his intellectually- challenged voters. It will not go anywhere but to the airwaves, where it will waste hours on talk radio. It is patently un-constitutional and, more importantly, unenforceable. Crabby ethnophobes do this sort of thing periodically, but cooler heads almost always prevail.
— Jim Apr 21, 03:09 PM #
The anti-denigration part of the rider is completely unworkable. Enforcing it would be a civil-liberties hell – probably even beyond the intent of the sponsors.
But are they just “crabby ethnophobes”? Okay, call the move against race-based groups on campus a statement of reactionary rage. Call the Arizona politicians and their constituents knuckle-draggers for reacting against what they see as taxpayer-funded Balkanization and self-segregation, but…
Perhaps the paranoid Arizona primitives would be content if allowed separate-but-equal white student organizations which – presumably – could help preserve the American values and Western civilization that all these hyphenated groups are seemingly trying to undermine. Would this be racist? Well, why can’t whites have their own organizations? One response is that non-race-based campus organizations are already for those majority (and inherently racist) whites and that minorities – however defined – need the shelter of their own kind in a hostile environment.
But some of the good taxpayers of Arizona might be forgiven for asking, “Who wrote the rules?” Therein lies one source of white rage and suspicions of campuses being hijacked by the cultural left. Has the rationale for allowing some race-based organizations but not others ever been laid out anywhere? And while we’re at it, shouldn’t universities be a tad uncomfortable in allowing the use of race – “a social construct”- in defining groups on campus, for fear of promoting exclusion and intolerance? Would a university step in to help a white or part-white student denied admission to – or made to feel uncomfortable about joining – a particular race-defined, university-recognized or university-sponsored group? What if Tiger Woods complains about not being rejected by an Asian-American student group because he is not Asian enough?
Groups defined by religion and gender do present similar problems. So do those defined by social class. There is a radical solution to all of this: Laws banning ALL student associations on campus and ending ALL sponsorship, recognition, and support of student organizations at publically-funded universities. Let interested students – and faculty – associate off campus at their own expense, in their own chosen ways, and with whatever recognition they wish to arrange outside of the university. Imagine the savings in reduced student fees and eliminated student-affairs positions, not to mention the reduction in frictions on campus. Let students run their own culture and see what shakes down. Once moved completely off-campus, a student’s participation in “Greek Life” or the German-American Bund should be of no more concern to a university than his or her patronage of the local bars.
— roadrage Apr 21, 05:21 PM #
I think there are a few things that need to be examined. First of all, does the bill mean that all groups that are race-related, regardless of whether they allow people of other races to join their organizations, are prohibited? If they only prohibit groups that allow only a certain race to join, that could be a step towards “inclusion.” However, if the bill really is only saying that we don’t want such groups as “Asian American Organization” or “African-American Student Group” even if the Whites are allowed to join them, then I think the bill is outrageously racist. A lot of minorities feel the need to form such kind of race-based groups because they feel left out, and there are a lot of struggles that the Whites may not understand, simply because they have never been treated in the same way the minorities may have experienced. By the Caucasion people disallowing such groups or claiming that such groups are “racist,” it could actually be a subtle form or racism in itself. It is a complete denial of racism. In fact, if our country truly wants to become more inclusive and less racist, the first step is to acknowledge that racism still occurs to these days, and to allow the minorities a way to express themselves. Particularly if they are not protesting or causing any danger to the “majority,” if they are just trying to find an organization where their feelings may be acknowledged, why are the “majority” people so jealous and would feel the need to illegalize the existence of such minority groups?
Also, the true American value is based on the inclusion of differences. Race-based groups are not necessarily racist. They could show the many colors of this country, the many different ethnical cultures and their traditional values – which is what diversity is about. Freedom and diversity go hand in hand. If American claims to be a land of freedom, and yet it does not allow the display of diversity, this would be one of the biggest ironies to the world. “Diversities” are not nonsense – only people who are threatened by the promotion of diversities are.
— AW Apr 21, 05:26 PM #
This bill is just another nail in the U.S. coffin. Complacent America stands by watching, as her freedoms and liberties vanish. People, soon this type of discussion may be moot. Considering the current economic condition, basically teetering on the brink of total collapse, including the far reaching effects of the coming oil crises, mortgage crises, the dollar’s downfall, the unneccessary Iraq war with all its costs, the state of our environment, not to mention the borrowing of 3 billion dollars every business day (from foreign sources) just to keep our gov from going bankrupt; plus, our lack of national will to take proper measures to deal with any of these issues, one might presume the once mighty U.S. is doomed to economic ruin, and fascism or some form of military type dictatorship where Mr Pearce with his totalitarian views, I think, would feel Right at home, no pun intended.
— todd leith Apr 21, 07:06 PM #
I feel that Americans as a whole can be sorely lacking in understanding of other cultures and ethnicities. Regardless of what “race” you are, people just don’t take the time to learn and understand people who are different from them. Blacks are stereotyped as either jocks or thugs/gangsters. Latino’s are usually looked as illegal immigrants. Asians are considered model minorities in schools.
Why do all these race based groups exist? They are SUPPORT systems for the “minorities” that are in school. Who else can support you best than others who are like you? Sometimes, other support systems simply do not adequately support certain students in need.
Why do have multi-lingual folks working in the voting polls or other places. It’s because we need to address the issues of people who don’t speak English well.
— Donald L. Apr 22, 02:49 AM #
After reading the amendment more clearly, I find it funny that these “groups” can’t denegrate the teachings of “Western” Civilization.
Wow, as an Asian/Chinese (US Born) American, if I were to read the US Historical accounts of my Chinese ancestors in America, it would probably be only a few lines, most likely referring to the Chinese building the railroads.
There probably wouldn’t be mention of the Chinese Exclusion Act in the 1800’s, or the coolies that worked in the Gold Rush.
US/Western History is a big indication of why Americans sometimes don’t know about other cultures since it usually focuses on “white” history.
— Donald L. Apr 22, 02:57 AM #
(this may be an iteration of a combination of several posts before, but it seems necessary to repeat them)
If everyone would take a moment and actually read this law, or at least the amendment to the Senate bill, this amendment is actually a great deal more insidious than just “banning groups based on race.” While i’m not saying that “banning groups based on race is good”, (in one case would be the mother of all groups that every ethnic group is a reaction to and defending from, the KKK, to see that go would be a great day), this amendment from the onset proposes banning (through the use of denying public money to schools) any historical, religious, racial, gender, scientific, philosophical perspective that would be in any way deemed as dissent to the “American way of life.” That’s how insidious it is. it would deny not only the tragic historical aspects of American history, but also any attempt to give critical tools to students as to forming their own thoughts and voicing dissent.
the second aspect that makes this insidious, is how through patriotic language, race is resurfaced and redefined in law. in many aspects, group activity is not based on race, but upon like minded people. very rarely is it based on race, because if it did, it would not evolve, to disseminate and assimilate new information. in this amendment, race is defined in legal terms, and if passed, would allow for other types of legislation to enter.
the third aspect is that, when was it the legislature’s business to define what the content should be for education? is that not a decision made by those that are involved in the system of education (say, at a university, like the students and professors?)? where does it say in the arizona constitution that the legislature has this mandate? if the state defines what is offensive and what is good, then does arizona really have a democracy?
the fourth and final aspect is that this amendment attacks, through the use of race, one of our most fundamental rights in the US Constitution, our right to assembly. this right goes to all americans and has been stomped on during the past 10 years. whether you agree or disagree that having specifically designated ethnic groups is right or wrong, if at some point you wish to assemble to voice your dissent, the other side will use this law against you.
— k Apr 22, 04:51 AM #
Schools (like UNC) were revoking charters from Christian groups funded by student fees because these groups, they said, were “exclusionary”—e.g. stated in their constitutions that they are organizations “for young Christian adults.” I don’t see too much liberal handwringing going on over that. If it’s not okay for Christians to exclude, say, gays and atheists from their clubs, why is it okay for racial groups to exlude other races?
This is just another example of diversity nut cases getting selectively hysterical—of tolerating a diversity of everything but opinion.
For the record, I think that student groups should be able to include and exclude whomever they want. I have no problem with race-based groups.
— Hamster of Love Apr 22, 09:25 AM #
Ok lets really think about this… If we had a club or organization of all white people and we excluded anybody else from another race, wouldn’t we be considered racist. If we where to say white pride we would really be pushing it. But it is ok for other races to group together and shout their color pride and they arent rasicst at all? Now dont get me wrong I AM NOT AT ALL RACIST. I just think that this is something that everybody should consider. Religious organizations already dont get public funding and they in danger of being shut down all together. So I think its just time you come to reality and see that the goverment isn’t here to support you nor your clubs. Its time that you do car washes, bake sales and what not to raise money for your clubs. And if you want to have a tisy about this then you should remeber how lucky you are that you can even be part of the club and not worry about your life ending because of it. America is a great place we can have all the little clubs we want and not have to worry that we might be murdered for being part of them. So quit your bitching that the goverment isnt going to give you anymore money because its not my job to fund clubs im not a part of!!!!!!!!!!!
— Jsmith Apr 22, 11:37 AM #
Much thanks should go to La Voz de Aztlan for breaking this story: http://www.aztlan.net/arizona_targets_mecha.htm
They also recently wrote on the following:
LA VOZ DE AZTLAN
Los Angeles, Alta California
April 18, 2008
New Hampshire town bans Latinos
from town beach
The town council in Merrimack, New Hampshire has voted to ban Latinos from the town beach, after complaints last year about Spanish-speaking
visitors.
The ordinance was approved Thursday.
The move to ban Latinos began last summer when councilors discussed complaints that Spanish speaking visitors were crowding the beach on weekends.
Some of the Latino visitors apparently were breaking the beach rules because they could not understand the posted park rules that were written in English
only.
The council rejected putting up signs in any language except English.
Enforcement will begin this summer.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
La Voz de Aztlan
Website http:/www.aztlan.net
Contact:
http://www.aztlan.net/contactlavozdeaztlan.html
Join Project Amigos
http://www.aztlan.net/project_amigos.htm
— Humberto Escobar Apr 22, 02:03 PM #
Student Organizations are created to support students, who have different needs. The university and college atmosphere is a coming of age and many students are re-connecting with their identity and interests. If students wanted to create a “white” group they can. They don’t normally exist, so it shows they are normally not needed by the student population. It is quite easy to start a student organization (at least at my under and graduate public universities). If you haven’t noticed most student organizations are probably mostly Caucasian students, so indirectly “white” clubs have already been created.
Also, the university will not provide funds to organizations unless they’re events are open to all and free.
Ethnic student groups range from academic to social pursuits and adds a depth to the college experience. I grew up in the midwest and attended both undergrad and grad there. Ethnic student groups added an educational dimension to the university, such as many students had their first taste of Asian ethnic cuisine, saw their first cultural dance, or learned about civil rights from a specific perspective because of ethnic student organizations. Any one can join or participate in ethnic specific organizations and they do.
— PPC Apr 22, 03:05 PM #
There are a lot of people here saying that organizations like Black Student Association are welcome to all races. How welcome would a White person feel though. Seriously. They probably wouldn’t feel very welcome especially if they dealt with racism from Blacks. The members that “welcome” them are probably just being politically correct while also feeling awkward.
On the other hand, I wonder if any Blacks feel the same way joining an association. Any association. The same way!! Why? Because these associations are mostly if not all White. Would you welcome them? Of course. Are you secretly racist? Just a little bit? Let’s be honest. The answer is yes.
A lot of these organizations are support groups saying “You’re not alone. Don’t be an outcast and go on a massacre not even realizing that racism is what’s eating away at you. We’re here for you. We’ve experienced similar things. We won’t be your friends and then ditch you when image is important going to bars and what not.” People don’t complain about racism on campuses because everyone will jump on them for crying and make it out to be one-sided. Racism is a very, very serious problem for many minorities. For Whites, the reverse racism is just a minor annoyance.
— Jason Apr 22, 03:14 PM #
Cultural groups don’t discriminate based on race. Every cultural group at Yale is inclusive to and invites White students to join their activities. I can’t think of a single cultural group that bars membership in this way (it would be hypocritical). It also doesn’t preclude non-Whites from having White students in their social circles and other interest groups, which is just not the case at any school. You simply can’t go to college in the US and not interact with White people and ignore Eurocentric history. It’s just not possible, unless you just never go to class.
European ethnic groups (German, Italian, Irish) also meet with the purpose of enjoying cultural history, and don’t discriminate in membership. Essentially “race-based” groups is a misnomer because it’s not the membership that’s necessarily culturally based, it’s the culture being discussed, experienced, and celebrated.
White students may feel uncomfortable being in the minority in a group not focused on their own ethnic background (yes, everyone has a race and a culture), but that’s not a feeling foreign to Black, Latino, and Asian students growing up in a majority White culture that isn’t always welcoming or inviting to them.
Reaching out goes both ways.
— Luis Apr 22, 03:26 PM #
“This bill basically says, ‘You’re here. Adopt American values. If you want a different culture, then fine, go back to that culture.”
I’m disgusted at this comment. I’m equally disgusted that AZ adopted the bill. Go back to your country? What type of prejudiced jibberjab is that? I get really tired of people in this country saying things like this. It reminds me how IGNORANT ppl are. America was founded on differences and “acceptance.” Why should someone from another country be forced to adapt a “WASP” way. When it all boils down thats what ppl are talking about when they say BE AMERICAN!! The premise of America is supposed ot be a Melting Pot. This senator is proposing assimilation and Americanization. This is probably why our country is dumb. We have so many different perspectives.. so many different minds – but does anyone stop to think to tap into the different cultures so we can have an amazingly brilliant one? Resarch tells us how different backgrounds yeild better outcomes… so why are we so afraid to let ppl be themselves. Let ppl retain their heritage. Why strip them of thier identity? Why make them a carbon copy of everyone esle?
— Astra Apr 23, 10:29 AM #
I’m sorry for the double post.
Comment #64 – Jsmith —
I don’t mean to single you out but you obviously hold some type of prejudiced/racist sentiment leaving a posting like that. Ignorant ppl in this country – that’s what I was saying.
J – I invite you to read a history book. I think it would be beneficial for you to understand the history of “conquered” groups. The “color” pride? Wow. FYI – racism is a system of power. Since when has any minority had any form of power? Yes, there has been advancement – but the privilege in this country belongs to White ppl. That’s the reality of things. The way the American system is designed – ppl of color have additional steps to take to advance. Why? Bc Bobs dad owns this company… or Bobs dad know someone who owns that company (i.e. G. W.Bush). Don’t try to say – nobody ever gave you anything and that may be true. BUT whether you want to acknowledge (or are aware) it or not you are the lucky recipient of SEVERAL privileges that ppl of color are not privy. You sometimes will get hired bc there is “something” about you the search committee likes… or you just make the search committee fee more comfortable. Yes.. subconsciously ppl may not be aware – but hiring practices can be affected (though they shouldn’t be) by levels of “comfort.” This comfort could be because you remind the hiring committee (who has the same background, or gender, or racial composition) as you. This is a reality – it happens. Again – maybe not intention. But it happens. Ppl extend out to groups they feel most comfortable. Look up “social distance.”
Please read a book. Please become more educated. Perfect reading for you would be Peggy MacIntosh – Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack. That reading can break it down for you in two pages, ok. Minority groups have to have some sort of support system bc without them – they’d struggle to survive. Incase you are questioning anything I’m saying – again I point you to numerous articles. There are various resources setup on college campuses bc American universities are geared towards: white, heterosexual, Christian men. That’s why there are resources for women. That’s why there are resources for LGBT. That’s why there are resources for Black/Latino/Asian/Jewish.
Read something JSmith. Your posting contributes to the ignorance that makes our country so bad.
— Astra Apr 23, 10:55 AM #
DennisMM – It occurs to me that you do not respond to jc’s comments because you cannot. His assertion that “groups based on race are RACIST” is hard to argue with. Much easier to hurl invective rather than admit the truth of this. JC – though some of your generalizations are a bit broad, there is a great deal of truth in what you said. I admire your honesty and courage in saying it.
— TRB Apr 21, 12:06 PM #
I have a hot temper and I let it get the best of me. For that I’m sorry. I am not sorry, however, for saying that jc’s comment seemed trollish and meant more to offend than to further discussion.
*jc wrote:
I love it when all of these people who call others racist (when defending their racists views and behaviors) have to look in the mirror and be judged by their own criteria …but of course THEY get to be racist because that is what racism and being a racist is all about.*
So you’re only racist if you say others are racist? What is that supposed to mean? Are you familiar with the word tautology, jc?
If non-blacks and non-asians and non-muslims are permitted to join and discuss the issues under consideration by the African-American student league, the Pan-Asian student council, the Islamic student organization, how can those groups be racist? I’m not aware of any public university, at least, that allows such groups to prohibit members of other ethnic/religious/racial groups from joining (although outsiders may not feel welcome). The cry of “racism” by jc and others in this case is a straw man argument. The truth is, proponents of this bill want to bar minority-support groups from receiving funding for one reason. They want to destroy them. They know other sources of funding are usually not up to maintaining significant activities by student groups. Have I now answered jc’s comments sufficiently? I believe so.
— DennisMM Apr 23, 11:51 AM #
Not only am I all for “Race-based Student Groups”, I feel candidates should take DNA tests. After all, how do we know someone is Black, White, Red, Brown, or Yellow? How does that someone know? I’m a Jew whose grandparents immigrated from Latvia: Imagine my surprise when my DNA had both Polynesian and Asian markers. All I can guess is that some Filipino was enslaved by Genghis Khan before he invaded Europe.
In fact, given the accuracy of DNA tests, we can have “Race-Based Student Sub-Groups”: i.e. the 1%white, 2%black, 3%Brown, 10%yellow, and 84%red group. Eventually, given that each person’s DNA is unique, we will have as many subsubsub…. groups as students.
— richard Apr 23, 07:52 PM #
Arizona legislator proposing to outlaw MEChA
is “shady” and his son is a “felon”
http://www.aztlan.net/russell_pearce_felon_son.htm
— Humberto Escobar Apr 24, 02:44 PM #
“This bill basically says, ‘You’re here. Adopt American values,’” State Rep. John Kavanagh, a Republican, told The Arizona Republic. “‘If you want a different culture, then fine, go back to that culture,’” he said.
It still amazes me how many supposed educated people in high places are so ridiculously ignorant as to believe that America is all white and non-diverse. Someone really needs to get out of their office more. Come join us in the real world, won’t you?
— MAG Apr 24, 02:46 PM #
Race-based groups do not exclude people based on race. The groups simply focus on issues pertaining to certain racial groups. If bills like this actually pass, the U.S. will become no different in ideology and nationalism that Communist Russia and Nazi Germany were. Yes, I said it. The bill is racist and unconstitutional! By the way, the reason there is usually no “White-Student Union” or similar groups is because Anglo-America is the dominant culture; therefore, there is no need for a group catering to the needs of whites because everything already does…
— Davy from UWF Apr 24, 09:11 PM #
“By the way, the reason there is usually no “White-Student Union” or similar groups is because Anglo-America is the dominant culture; therefore, there is no need for a group catering to the needs of whites because everything already does…”
Well I could make the same argument for men, yet they have their own network now called “Spike TV”. For what I can’t figure out as they already have star billing in just about everything in media, yet they still felt the need for their own exclusive network as well…
— NYMOM Apr 25, 04:58 PM #
The one thing that unites us all- regardless of our racial backgrounds- is that we are American! We are supposed to be this patchwork of cultures and peoples striving for opportunities for our families and paving the way for future generations. This bill is not prohibiting race-oriented student groups- it’s just saying that they won’t be supported by taxpayer dollars. It is not racist to want to withold taxpayer dollars from supporting exclusive groups at taxpayer supported institutions. The tax money that supports educational programs sure doesn’t have a race associated with it- it is provided by Americans as a whole for the good of all American students, not just a particular subset here and there.
“There is usually no ‘White-Student Union’ or similar groups is because Anglo-America is the dominant culture.” Seriously- there are no Caucasian only groups because it would be considered racist! All college students need representation- only a racist would suggest that one group of people is more deserving than another.
People do not learn understanding and toleration through segregation and alienation (a more correct reference to Nazi Germany than the one cited by Davy from UWF would fit here)- people learn to understand and cooperate eachother when they work TOGETHER so that they can understand eachother’s needs- then “special interests” become everyone’s interests! How about supporting groups that serve ALL students and then we can really tout what a free and tolerant people we are!
— Erika Apr 25, 09:55 PM #
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/04/25/gay_bars
Gay bars are losing popularity. Why? Because the mainstream is beginning to accept them outside of gay bars. They don’t have to form their own communities as much. There’s been so much positive images of gays in the media. Now, if we could do the same for race minorities. Wow. That’d be nice.
— Jason Apr 26, 02:57 PM #
And how are you gonna fight racism or terrorism without being discriminatory?
— Mike Apr 29, 09:25 AM #
IF this bill gets approved by our sometimes dumb state legislature, I would DARE Janet Napolitano to sign it into law. This is stupid and a waste of time and money. And, in any event, I would immediately file suit against any school that tries to enforce this law on any student organization, because in no way do any of the cultural clubs/organizations or frats/sororities discriminate membership on the base of race or religion. Pearce may think he is slick (this same bill was 2 other unrelated bills before this amendment) but he is not.
— Tia Apr 29, 05:55 PM #
There’s no such thing as a exclusive race based college group. Just because white people don’t have the courage or comfort level to JOIN these groups doesn’t mean they exclude whites. If you want to join a minority organization YOU CAN! This bill is STUPID!
— SouthernNYCgal Apr 30, 10:04 AM #
#37—John McCain is a United States Senator representing Arizona. BTW, he supported the ban on the MLK holiday. With time, I hope he has become more tolerant; we will see.
— Cg May 3, 06:43 PM #
Alex Jones needs to read this before it’s deleted. Because this bill may also target Christians and jews. Arizona is becoming a Nazi State.
— Josh Taylor May 4, 09:19 PM #
I don’t have a problem with student groups racing as long as there’s no betting going on. I’ll wager there is, though.
— Rolph May 6, 01:33 PM #