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Prior days' news: By date | Search This week's print issue Back issues: By date | Search March 1, 2008Berkeley Is Negotiating Deal With Saudi UniversityThe University of California at Berkeley is working on a partnership deal with Saudi Arabia’s King Abdullah University of Science and Technology, the Contra Costa Times reported today. Under the arrangement, which the Times says could be made final as early as Tuesday, Berkeley faculty members would collaborate on research and help the Saudi university hire professors. Some faculty members at Berkeley are upset about the pending deal, concerned that the $10-billion university will discriminate against women and others and limit academic freedom. Their worries are echoed by critics of another pending deal, between California Polytechnic State University at San Luis Obispo and Saudi Arabia, to start an engineering program at Jubail University College there. According to a report in the Los Angeles Times, Cal Poly would receive $5.9-million over five years to create an engineering curriculum, build laboratories, and train teachers, but only men would qualify to take or teach engineering classes at the school. At Berkeley, the Contra Costa Times reports, a committee of the Academic Senate voted in favor of the deal with King Abdullah University. The university, known as KAUST, is scheduled to open in September 2009. In January it announced the appointment of its first president, Choon Fong Shih, who told The Chronicle that “KAUST will operate by global standards, and there will be sufficient leeway on our campus to develop policies and rules and regulations along the lines of a global research university.” He also expressed confidence that money would help draw researchers who could not find financing anywhere else. —Jennifer Ruark Posted on Saturday March 1, 2008 | Permalink |Comments
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Repression is not quite a full religion in Saudi Arabia, according to KAUST President Choon Fong Shih. In an act of systematic sincerity, the Saudis are willing to bend or abandon ancient rules and sprinkle freedom over the new university to attract Western participation. Someone has to help them survive the new day when Toyotas run on hot air instead of gas.
And Berkeley — the bluest place in a blue American state — is eager to join. Yes, they seem to be saying, the Saudis are repressive, but consider this argument: their money is awfully green, blue mixed with yellow. It’s too bad that Mario Savio is long dead. He eventually got a physics degree and might have been a great asset for Berkeley lecturing on the steps at the King Abdullah University of Science and Technology.
OK, now let’s get back to the hypocrisies of our politicians, especially the dogs on the other side!
— S. Britchky Mar 1, 05:44 PM #
I’m impressed. The Berkeley administration is taking serious action to keep the University in a financial position to compete with peer institutions. I get the feeling too that there must have been serious assurances by KAUST that things will be egalitarian. UCB has taken a cautious approach when it come to the Middle East, as in, I believe, doing away with credit for study in Israel after the Lebanon War disrupted a longtime UCB archaeological excavation there.
— NoahK Mar 1, 10:48 PM #
Far too often ‘progressives’ abandon principles and values they espouse in their own Western democracies when faced with repressive regimes in the name of ‘tolerance’ and multiculturalism. This kowtowing is not only hypocritical, it is deeply offensive and damaging to real people’s lives. The women in these countries deserve the same choices as others around the world. Multicultural relativism must be abandoned if social progression is to be achieved worldwide.
— EDN Mar 2, 10:10 AM #
I suppose jews and christians are also welcome to the Saudi campus? Or is it Don’t ask Don’t tell policy?
Oh, I forgot. Saudi laws mandate death penalty to the Jews.
Anyway, great match for Berkeley liberals. Now you have more money to spend attacking marines and US “discrimination”.
— jamil hussein Mar 2, 10:20 AM #
Where is NOW? Where are the Progressive Jews? I can’t wait to see how they handle the first uncomfortable situation. Will The New York Times scream about the injustice? Doubtful, they are probably negotiating themselves to help establish an arrogant twin organization over there.
— djl130 Mar 2, 10:49 AM #
KAUST is being established as a fully co-ed university, outside the remit of the benighted Saudi Ministry of Higher Education. There is not ‘dress code’ for women and women will be permitted to drive on its premises.
Jews and Christians already work in Saudi Arabia and there is no restriction on recruiting faculty, staff, or student for KAUST, though Israelis probably won’t be welcomed.
You can find more information at the Crossroads Arabia blog.
— John Burgess Mar 2, 11:01 AM #
I’m sure that since the UC Berkeley seems to find Saudi Arabia’s treatment of homosexuals acceptable they will now have no problem with military recruiting or ROTC on campus.
— mike Mar 2, 11:32 AM #
Didn’t we hear that all the neocons, Bushies and the like were interested in was money and oooiilll? Maybe it was just a question of no one making a high enough bid for academia.
— FLR Mar 2, 11:36 AM #
I don’t understand the acedemic people in America. Why get into bed with a regime known to oppress women? I thought the academic in America fought against cruelty to women. They are duplicitous in their ways.
— farzana ahmad Mar 2, 11:48 AM #
“UCB has taken a cautious approach when it come to the Middle East, as in, I believe, doing away with credit for study in Israel after the Lebanon War disrupted a longtime UCB archaeological excavation there.”
that’s a cautious approach? Basically, they are discriminating against Jewish kids. the war in lebanon disrupted a dig?? How terrible.
— nona Mar 2, 12:18 PM #
“There is not ‘dress code’ for women and women will be permitted to drive on its premises.”
And who will grant that permission, a culture that accepts all its citizens on an equal basis or men putting a little veneer of civility on a culture that reserves to itself what rights it will grant women or any others just to make it a little easier for Berkeley to sell its heritage for a mess of porridge.
— willis Mar 2, 12:27 PM #
Jews and Christians might be permitted to live in SA, but they are not allowed to practice their religion with their co-religionists.
Just try to take your personal Bible into SA – they’ll shred it at the border, and yank your cross from your neck.
Tolerance? Hah. But money? Sure!
Principles are such inconvenient things, aren’t they?
— steve miller Mar 2, 01:23 PM #
Hmmmmm.
Frankly what I find amusing are the animal rights nut-freaks who scream at Americans for eating cows but don’t even blink about the muslim practice of cutting animal’s throats and then bleeding them to death.
— memomachine Mar 2, 01:41 PM #
The only thing sicker than Berkeley prostituting itself like this is all the eager accomplices in the media (covering up the truth by refusing to state it) & among the sheeple – some of whom have been seen posting here. I thank G-d for those who see clear – also some posting right here. Berkeley is aiding & abetting both misogyny & antisemitism & there’s no way around that, no matter how hard you lie to yourselves.
— Susan Mar 2, 02:04 PM #
This is a bad deal no matter how you look at it. $10B is a lot of money to you and me, but almost literally nothing to the Saudi’s. If UCB’s greed did not cloud it’s presumed intellect, it would have held out for much, much more. As it is, the Saudi’s are buying off UCB for pocket change. Oh, and what about those gay Saudi’s? Will they be welcomed at the university – or even allowed to live?
— Dr Dean Mar 2, 02:42 PM #
Berkeley is a run amuck place, where the lunatic left is allowed to be free as a bird. There must be a cool-aid fountain for these decision makers of the City Council & the Acamemic Senate. It must be true “God Bless America” just for putting up with stuff like this.
— William Duffy Mar 2, 02:54 PM #
In response to Dr Dean (Comment #15):
$10 billion is the price tag of KAUST (including construction, start-up funding and endowmernt), not the amount UCB will get from the deal. The amount UCB will actually receive will surely pale by comparison — and much of that will probably be used in Saudi Arabia, not in Berkeley.
— CU Alum Mar 2, 04:06 PM #
The level of ignorance from some of these posters continue to astound me. Jews and Christians work in KSA. Bibles and crucifixes are permitted. KAUST will have a co-ed facility and not under the thumb of Saudi religious authorities. Berkeley and the KSA are doing what we all should be doing – bridging the religious and cultural gaps.
http://13martyrs.blogspot.com
— Rob Wagner Mar 2, 05:51 PM #
WOW … UCB are either going to help build a new indoctination center for the Wahabi apartheid kingdom of Saud … or they’re going to help build the new Sun City !!!
What visionaries !!!
— Deutscher Dave Mar 2, 05:56 PM #
As a (conservative) UCB alum, I feel I have to stand up for my alma mater’s honor.
First, UCB has nothing to do with the outlandish protests you hear about, like the disrespect to the Marines. ROTC is on campus. (It’s the Ivies that banned it.)
The faculty and staff are very liberal, but so are the faculty and staff at Harvard.
I think there are a lot of things to discuss about this deal but you shouldn’t fault the administration for seeking additional funding and foreign relationships in an age of globalization.
— B Mar 2, 06:55 PM #
“They are prohibited from studying certain subjects in schools, such as chemistry and biology. They may not legally drive and must obtain “permission” from a male “guardian” to travel within or outside the country. Women must ride in the back of public buses, even when the buses are empty. Saudi girls are not allowed to play sports in schools, which, by Saudi health official admission, is causing health problems and staggering expenses. All marriages are arranged by male relatives. If a Saudi woman divorces her husband, she loses custody of her children over age six. Women have little or no freedom to effectively prosecute sexual abuse cases, being required to produce four witnesses. In court, a woman’s testimony is equivalent to half that of a man’s.”
http://www.cdhr.info/Campaigns/WomensRights
“The Saudi government forbids the practice of any religion other than the state-sanctioned interpretation of Islam (Wahhabism). Worship for Muslims in Saudi Arabia is compulsory and during times of worship, all shops, restaurants, radio and television stations must close. Those who do not comply are subject to interrogation, humiliation, imprisonment and flogging. If non-Muslims are caught practicing their faiths in public, they are routinely taken to filthy detention centers and left to languish under harsh conditions. If they are foreigners, they remain in these conditions until they are deported. If religious prisoners come before a court, they face a biased judicial system staffed by extremist judges, who consider non-Muslims and religious minorities to be infidels. “
http://www.cdhr.info/Campaigns/ReligiousFreedomBriefing
— Infidel Mar 2, 07:13 PM #
“Gay people are routinely facing harassment, arrest, torture, flogging and execution in Saudi Arabia. It’s no wonder the gay rights group OutRage! has labelled Saudi Arabia one of the most homophobic countries in the world.
“In May alone, as many as 92 men were arrested as ‘deviants’. On March 10, over 100 men were arrested after a raid for attending a gay wedding and found to be dancing and ‘behaving like women’. According to Amnesty International, 31 of the men were sentenced to imprisonment for 6 months to a year and up to 200 lashes each; four namely two Saudi Arabians, a Jordanian and a Yemeni were given two years’ imprisonment and 2,000 lashes. As is usual in Saudi Arabia, the sentences were passed in a closed session in which defence lawyers were barred. According to Human Rights Watch, the more than 70 men who had initially been released were subsequently summoned back and informed they had also been sentenced to one year’s imprisonment each.
“These arrests closely follow the public beheading of Ahmed al-Enezi and Shahir al-Roubli, two gay lovers in Arar, in the north, for allegedly murdering a man who had found out about their relationship and was threatening to out them. The Saudi Interior Ministry’s statement announcing the execution said the two were found in a ‘shameful situation’, a term which is regularly used by the authorities to refer to homosexuality. “
http://www.maryamnamazie.com/articles/saudi_shame.html
— Infidel Mar 2, 07:17 PM #
“A 37-year-old American businesswoman and married mother of three is seeking justice after she was thrown in jail by Saudi Arabia’s religious police for sitting with a male colleague at a Starbucks coffee shop in Riyadh.
“Yara, who does not want her last name published for fear of retribution, was bruised and crying when she was freed from a day in prison after she was strip-searched, threatened and forced to sign false confessions by the Kingdom’s “Mutaween” police.
…““Some men came up to us with very long beards and white dresses. They asked ‘Why are you here together?’. I explained about the power being out in our office. They got very angry and told me what I was doing was a great sin,” recalled Yara, who wears an abaya and headscarf, like most Saudi women.
The men were from Saudi Arabia’s Commission for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, a police force of several thousand men charged with enforcing dress codes, sex segregation and the observance of prayers.
Yara, whose parents are Jordanian and grew up in Salt Lake City, once believed that life in Saudi Arabia was becoming more liberal. But on Monday the religious police took her mobile phone, pushed her into a cab and drove her to Malaz prison in Riyadh. She was interrogated, strip-searched and forced to sign and fingerprint a series of confessions pleading guilty to her “crime”.
“They took me into a filthy bathroom, full of water and dirt. They made me take off my clothes and squat and they threw my clothes in this slush and made me put them back on,” she said. Eventually she was taken before a judge.
“He said ‘You are sinful and you are going to burn in hell’. I told him I was sorry. I was very submissive. I had given up. I felt hopeless,” she said. “
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3321637.ece
— Infidel Mar 2, 07:23 PM #
Actually, Rob Wagner, it’s your bigotry and ignorance! Wake up! Islam is an intolerant, violent religion, which seeks to force sharia upon every nation! Sharia means, convert to Islam, or lead a miserable life as a second class citizen. What do you think “KILL the Kuffars!” means? Its, preached in every Mosque around the world! That’s you, baby! YOU are a Kuffar! The money held out by the Saudi’s has a hidden agenda – the beginning of Sharia in the US. You’re just another ignoramus, helping sharia along….it is so strange, if this money was offered by some Baptist Group in Texas, you would, along with the left at UC, be screaming about separation of Church and State. How about realizing that this will result in a clear violation of this principle, with Islam being promoted on campus?
— antimu Mar 2, 07:27 PM #
“AN AMERICAN civil liberties group has written an open letter to the King of Saudi Arabia, urging him to pardon a woman sentenced to death for witchcraft under Sharia law.
“Fawza Falih was condemned to death by a court in the town of Quraiyat after confessing under interrogation to having used sorcery to bewitch people. Witchcraft is not a crime under the Saudi penal code, however Sharia, or Muslim religious law, forbids its practice.
“The fact that Saudi judges still conduct trials for unprovable crimes like ‘witchcraft’ underscores their inability to carry out objective criminal investigations,” the Middle East Director of the New York based NGO, Human Rights Watch, Joe Stork said on Feb 14.”
http://www.religiousintelligence.co.uk/news/?NewsID=1619
— Infidel Mar 2, 07:36 PM #
A couple of questions…
Q. Will UC-B university health insurance cover magenta-haired tattoo’d cliche lesbian faculty in SA when they are beaten on the new campus?
Q. Will Che Guevara T-shirted unwashed Freshmen from Marin County and the Upper West Side of Manhattan be able to beat the rap for running over burkah-wrapped women, in the face of VERY severe Sharia law?
Q. Will gay, bi or “questioning” upper middle class White elite male faculty and students be able to gather at bars to dance to the latest Euro-style beat or will they have hide in their luxury penthouses with lipstick lesbians posing as their girlfriends?
Q. Will the UC-B community hold pre-Saudi-immersion classes to remove the VERY tired rhetoric of “minority”, “3rd World” and “People of Color” from their predictable Americo-centric language of cultural myopia. Or will they really dare to assign new identities to the REAL Saudi’s, who just might not take too kindly to being given new identities.
Just wondering…after all American arrogance and ignorance make for very passionate partners especially abroad.
Having lived in the Middle East, I SAW the effects of repressive, women-subjugating, homo-sexual murdering in the Muslim world and these somewhat humorous takes on Muslim reality are far from funny.
But I am certain that UC-B’s arrogantly stupid and provincial administration has not given any of these scenarios a nano-second of thought. They’re too busy padding their already golden parachutes, when not whining about their oppression from behind the wheel of their BMWs.
Oooops, is that a blonde dread-locked, bongo-playing American suburbanite being hauled off bloody and in handcuffs by SA police on the 6 o’clock news?
What would Katie do? What will Oprah say?
What drugs will the Baldwin brothers take?
— Medina Mar 2, 07:41 PM #
Video: Saudi Cleric Muhammad Al-‘Arifi Explains Wife Beating in Islam to Young Muslims in a Ramadhan Show
Watch here:
http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/189/0/1594.htm
— Infidel Mar 2, 08:07 PM #
Another video clip from Saudi government controlled TV: Saudi Cleric Muhammad Al-Munajid: Western “Beasts” Use Colored Underwear to Conceal Their Filth
http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/189/0/1520.htm
— Infidel Mar 2, 08:11 PM #
A few more video from Saudi government controlled TV:
Saudi Cleric Abd Al-Aziz Al-Fawzan: Husbands Should Put Up with Their Wives’ Slips and Errors, Because the Twisted Nature of Women Stems from Their Very Creation
http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/189/0/1483.htm
Saudi Expert on Family Affairs Dr. Ghazi Al-Shimari Explains Wife Beating in Islam and States: If a Wife Licks Pus and Blood Coming Out of Her Husband’s Nose – She Still Would Not Have Observed All His Rights
http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/189/0/1447.htm
— Infidel Mar 2, 08:17 PM #
“The level of ignorance from some of these posters continue to astound me”
I, on the other hand, am not astounded by your own!
http://blog.honestreporting.ca/my_weblog/images/nationalpostphotofeb202007.jpg
Kinda hard to have a bible in SA if you can’t physically be there,aye?
Read up moron: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_religious_freedom_in_Saudi_Arabia
— Barbary Mar 2, 09:00 PM #
Now, the American left is on the Saudi payroll, besides the American right.
No wonder the war on terror is going nowhere. We have a Saudi occupation of America,
— Rajiv Mar 2, 09:08 PM #
The principles of UC-Berkley are the best that Wahabi Saudi money can buy.
— Logan Mar 2, 10:05 PM #
so fitting that a bunch of jew hating racists in berkeley now have the great opportunity to team up with their ideological brethren in saudi arabia.
its a match made in heaven.
— bob Mar 2, 11:39 PM #
If you have a comment to make about “understanding cultures” or exaggerations or misunderstandings on the part of westerners, I suggest you read these links:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3321637.ece
http://people.monstersandcritics.com/features/article_1390225.php/US_businesswoman_seized_by_Saudi_Mutaween_arrested_for_sitting_at_cafe
We now return to our regularly scheduled cultural relativism.
— the ghost Mar 3, 01:10 AM #
The Saudi’s and Berkeley see eye to eye and many subjects. Neither of them wants the U.S. Marines there.
— John D Mar 3, 03:21 AM #
A Saudi University and Berkeley are getting into bed together? Truly a marriage made in heaven. It will be quite interesting what happens.
Similar arrangments have been tried in Australia because it is relatively easy for Saudis to get a visa to Australia. The experiments have not turned out well. The Saudi students are required to write extensive reports on each other and so try to outdo each other in their devotion to wahabist islam. They learn very little about the west in their time in Australia because it is too dangerous for them to try to do so. They will be reported on. They also try some interesting put-ons. Basically they want to be taught separately as a group. They will want all their class schedules to conform with their religious obligations and want to be only taught by men (lecturers and lab instructors). Another request they will try is for women students to be excluded from their classes. At one university I know they even suggested that a nursing course be segregated into a male nurse/male patient and female nurse/female & children patients mode. That suggestion was not accepted. The university’s refusal to do so clearly indicates what a bunch of degenerates Australians are.
One of the great ironies is that, if the Australian experience is any guide, the Saudi students will be about as welcome as pork chops at the local mosque because of the trouble they will stir up in the local islamic community. Islamic community leaders have suggested that Saudi students should be “dispersed” among Australian universities to avoid political troubles over large groups of Saudi students trying to take over local mosques.
— Raymond J. RITCHIE Mar 3, 07:40 AM #
Further proof that the muslim is incompatible with Western humans.
— MES Mar 3, 08:14 AM #
The Chronicle should do investigative journalism – a complete story revealing all the names of U.S. university professors who made a lot of money teaching in Saudi Arabia in the 70s, 80s, 90s, up until now. I had heard that these monies were somehow tax free. Go figure. . .This was the beginning of what is going on now. Martin Kramer had it right – the Saudis bought Middle East Studies departments across the country spreading their anti-Semitic Wahhabi ideology.
— Nancy Hartevelt Kobrin Mar 3, 08:49 AM #
How much for your daughter? I buy your daughter. How much for your daughter?
— marci Mar 3, 12:36 PM #
Colossal greed combined with naive, uninformed or deliberately uncaring administrative decision-making under the cheaply available guise of confused “multiculturalism” brings us fiascoes like this.
It will not take decades to see the disaster of this decision motivated purely by immediate personal and institutional financial gain and the misguided notion of upper administration that UC-Berkeley can bring its arrogance to the world and win the hearts and minds of fanatical religious zealots that think nothing of Western male rape (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/01/world/middleeast/01dubai.html)…or the rape of Western females doing business in their world (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/jan/04/france.jonhenley1).
UC-B has sunk yet another mile into the morass of its own narcisisistic stupidity. No surprises here,but lots of lawsuits coming from the families of the hapless victims of the future.Oh, but I am sure they’ll have catered and very precious workshops and dialogues to address all of the above.
We really are a naive culture.
— greg Mar 3, 01:29 PM #
Secretive Deals like this have resulted in Islam penetrating our society, but escaping normal controls and scrutiny. Criticism of Islam cannot be found in our news media, because it is supported in part, by Saudi petrodollars. That is true of all the major TV networks, the NY Times, the LA Times, AP, Reuters, and many other news agencies. Even PBS is influenced by Arab grant money – all that one gets from them is glowing reports of Islamic culture. The entire Media, like most good employees, is frightened of criticicizing their employer, even if criminal activity is involved. Now it appears that University Administrators are following this same pattern, that of advancing Islamic Law, or sharia, even those aspects which directly contravene American Law. One hesitates to imply that there is some “personal adjustment” from the Saudis, for carrying out their work, but Islamic Influence peddling certainly needs scrutiny.
You want a free Society?
Good. Be informed, and work for it.
— Jp Mar 3, 06:46 PM #
It’s amazing how opinionated we bloggers can be without a shred of real information. First, the terms of the deal between Berkeley and KAUST have not yet been made public. It’s not a “secret deal,” it’s just University of California policy. Hundreds of such agreements are forged every year and the public doesn’t get to see them until they are signed. Let’s wait and see what is revealed before spouting off our favorite cherished ideologies and making assumptions about worst case scenarios. Or even more radical: How about trusting the faculty & administration to make a good decision based upon weeks, months, or years (?) of careful deliberation? Hasn’t acadamia taught us not to rush to conclusions, to do research from source documents, and not trust sensational newpaper articles to capture the entire truth? True, it’s too bad the State of California and its citizens don’t value higher education enough to fully fund a top-ranked institution like Berkeley. It seems that UC schools must look to other sources of revenue. But isn’t there more here? What if Berkeley faculty and students can help make a positive impact on Saudi Arabian culture and work with them to solve today’s most pressing technological challenges? One blogger said the Saudis are infiltrating America. How about Americans infiltrating Saudi Arabia and modeling tolerance of differences. Perhaps Berkeley is maturing and not just standing AGAINST things, but reaching out to those it disagrees with to learn and grow through mutual collaboration. Imagine.
— Thomas Tarper Mar 3, 08:07 PM #
“It’s amazing how opinionated we bloggers can be without a shred of real information.”
That’s what makes it soooooo much FUN!!!!!
— marci Mar 3, 08:11 PM #
Well, Tom, of course we don’t have a shred of information. What we are talking about here is the behavior of Islam, worldwide. Are you denying the Islamic riots in France, Norway, England and Holland? Are you saying there aren’t death threats to anyone who dares criticize Islam in Europe – “Behead those who Insult Islam!” That freedom of Speech is not being curtailed in Europe? Are you denying the 911 bombings, the Spanish, English, and Bali Bombings? The Islamic Genocides occuring in Africa? The woman teacher who was arrested and threatened with death, because she allowed a Teddy Bear to be called Mohammed? Are you denying that Islamic Law calls for all Churches to be closed, for all Bibles to be confiscated? Tom, we aren’t Blind. We see no accommodation on the part of Islam, towards non-believers. You can continue to stick your head in the sand. Most of us, don’t want this happening in the US. We value our freedom, and we aren’t satisfied with these soothing assurances on your part. Capitulating to any aspect of Islamic Law, will result in a curtailment of our freedom. Period.
— JP Mar 3, 08:35 PM #
Oh “Tom”,
Don’t be so provincial. Go live in the muslim world for a year and witness the abuse of women, the torturn of gays and the promotion of child prostitution and then notice the deafening SILENCE of the cultures. If you did this, you wouldn’t be so naive as to say…
“What if Berkeley faculty and students can help make a positive impact on Saudi Arabian culture and work with them to solve today’s most pressing technological challenges?”
Reality to “Tom”…the US is a 200 year old adolescent and very naive democracy. Do you really believe it can exact change when up against an immovable, intolerant and intransigent cultural/religious monolith. Call me later and I’ll hand you some more spitballs.
— g Mar 3, 09:39 PM #
“Do you really believe it can exact change when up against an immovable, intolerant and intransigent cultural/religious monolith.”
Could someone please explain that to the Bush administration?
— Beth Mar 4, 09:10 AM #
I can smell the BS all the way from here. This is a financial transaction and not an educational one. Uni of Berkeley is just doing it for the money, and it’s a shame that they would even put their names on such a venture that blatantly discriminates against women. It is the antithesis of what education should be. This is not progress for Saudi, no matter how they sugar-coat this ugly financial exchange in the name of education.
— Eman Hassan Mar 4, 11:49 PM #
We congratulate the Saudi Arabian government on the first major step “ education reformation”, however the government must emphasis on the social, economic, religion and political reform like their neighboring countries such as Qatar, Bahrain, UAE etc…
— Doris Martin Mar 5, 09:32 AM #
Very interesting responses. What I hear from several of you is that we should completely withdraw from all interaction with Islamic countries and Muslim people, dig in, isolate, and fight like hell to keep our society free and pure from Muslim influence. Of course I won’t deny the genocides and awful things that some Muslims have done. Will you deny awful “Christian” horrors such as the Inquisition, the Crusades, the KKK, etc.?
On another note, the United States has a full diplomatic relationship with Saudi Arabia. My guess is that you haven’t petitioned Bush or been up in arms about our government’s relationship with Saudi Arabia in the same way you are criticizing Berkeley. Isn’t that hypocritical? Oh, and one last note for Eman: You are wrong about this being a “venture that blatantly discriminates against women.” That is not the case at all. My previous concern remains: we’re all blogging without referring to any source information. Today I found some on the Berkeley web site at: http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2008/03/04_kaust.shtml. Please read it so your rants can be based in some accurate information.
— Thomas Tarper Mar 6, 01:36 PM #
Tom brings up the same old Islamic propaganda – “Look at the Crusades, the Inquisition, etc”. For God’s sake, Tom, the Crusades were 700 years ago!! and they occurred after Europe first suffered three Islamic invasions! Saudi Arabia, and Islam are violent and oppressive, here and now, today! We are not being bigoted by stating the truth. It’s time for Islam to stop jihad, and persecution of other religions. And it’s understandable that we are very skeptical of the motives of Saudi Arabia. You do understand, Tom, that Islamic states do NOT have freedom of speech, or of religion…
— JP Mar 6, 03:39 PM #
A clarification to S. Britchky, EDN, jamil hussein, memomachine, William Duffy, and many others who seem to equate “Berkeley” with “UC Berkeley”. Berkeley the town, the “bluest of the blue” had nothing to do with this. We are not especially surprised in fact by the University, or a particular department, making unethical decisions for the sake of money. This is the history of the confrontation between the town, the Berkeley you either love or hate, and the University. It is a mistake to blame this on “progressives”.
— jfjrinvs Mar 7, 02:03 AM #
The ending quote from “…its first president, Choon Fong Shih … [who] expressed confidence that money would help draw researchers who could not find financing anywhere else.” is noteworthy in that it is, unfortunately, likely to be exactly correct.
— Fred Stafford Mar 14, 05:51 PM #