September 12, 2007

State to Investigate Whether Arizona State U. Broke Law on Aid to Illegal Immigrants

Arizona’s treasurer plans to investigate whether Arizona State University is breaking a new state law by providing private institutional aid to some of its students who are undocumented immigrants, according to The Arizona Republic.

Dean Martin, the treasurer and a former Republican state legislator, was the lead sponsor of a ballot measure, approved last fall, that bars illegal immigrants from paying in-state tuition at public colleges or receiving state-based financial aid, among other state services.

Arizona State officials said that no state money — only private donations — had been used for the scholarships received by undocumented immigrants. The state also did not pay for raising any of those funds because they were handled by the university’s nonprofit foundation, Virgil Renzulli, the university’s vice president for public affairs, told the Republic.

Last month a Joint Legislative Budget Committee report said that nearly 5,000 Arizonans had been denied state-based financial aid, turned down in efforts to pay cheaper in-state college tuition, or rejected from adult-education classes since the ballot measure took effect.

The issue of whether to provide public aid to illegal immigrants has long been the subject of controversy in Arizona. —Sara Hebel

Comments

1. Dean Martin? Too bad this racist jerk demeans the name of a great singer.

   — Richard G.    Sep 12, 03:57 PM    #

2. Private or public funds, it’s about time some of our states have the guts to do something about illegal immigrants jeopardizing the oportunities for American children to pursue a higher education.

   — Pat L.    Sep 12, 04:28 PM    #

3. This particular situation just further illustrates the dilemma Americans face concerning illegal immigration. We need to pressure our elected leaders to face this issue head on.

   — Jason P    Sep 12, 04:40 PM    #

4. Goodness Richard. Why are you pulling the race card? What part of illegal immigrant do you not understand?

   — Jim    Sep 12, 04:47 PM    #

5. Whatever happened to the notion of America as the great protector? Or does that only apply to instances where oil/money/military power are at stake? Kudos to ASU for being creative in offereing educational opportunity to ALL children. Really, how many American students do you think were negatively impacted here?

   — Bruce    Sep 12, 05:22 PM    #

6. What does racism have to do with it?

   We’re talking about people who are breaking the law getting free money for college while law-abiding (and most likely tax-paying) US citizens are denied those dollars. Even though the aid may be from “private” sources, this state institution is using AZ tax dollars to facilitate the practice!

   Yeah, yeah, these “kids” had no choice when their parents brought them here illegally. But their parents have not taken the necessary steps to get them citizenship – nor have these 18-year-old ADULTS taken steps themselves.

   How about if these private donors instead sponsor these potentially productive Americans for citizenship?

   In the meantime, there’s one free service available to illegals – free transportation back to their own country.

   — Janice J.    Sep 12, 05:35 PM    #

7. It is unfortunate that some States in the United States, some cities like New york and others, and some colleges and universities and other organizations are providing financial aid to illegal immigrants at the cost of American citizens and other legal immigrants. All American citizens and legal immigrants should be allowed to pay instate tuition.

   — Kan Chandras    Sep 12, 05:42 PM    #

8. Do we, the United States of America, really want to jeopardize the future of people who were brought to this country through no fault of their own by denying them an education? That is kind of inhumane don’t you think? Furthermore, did any of us ask the inhabitants of this continent prior to 1492, if we could come over? Aren’t we all “illegal” then!!

   — Kathy G    Sep 12, 05:49 PM    #

9. This is one of the hot topics in higher ed and politics. Unfortunately illegal immigration is being blamed for everything, including the common cold. The current issue in Colorado is that legal kids of illegal immigrants can have in-state tuition if they qualify like any other students. This seeme eminently logical to me, but there are still plenty of people who disapprove.

   — Al    Sep 12, 06:09 PM    #

10. Kathy G.: We may be (or have been) illegal at one time, but to point out that we “illegals” destroyed the civilization that was here first is no way to gain sympathy for a new wave of illegals. It just points out he dangers. If there are those who want to put up their own money to pay out-of-state tuition for illegals, more power to them. But granting instate tuition, financial aid, and other benefits to illegal aliens is, to me, rediculous. I’m sorry they don’t have the same opportunities afforded to those who are here legally. I’m sorry they wouldn’t even have those opportunities in their own countries. If fairness is the goal, consider how unfair it is for us to shoulder the burden of problems largely created by corrupt foreign governments. Our own politicians should also act more responsibly to prevent the entrance and entitlement of illegals.

    — Tracy    Sep 12, 06:22 PM    #

11. Isn’t aiding and abetting an illegal alien a felony? So wouldn’t knowingly giving money to help an illegal alien invader stay in the USA to attend college be a felony?

    — Lilathe    Sep 12, 07:06 PM    #

12. Encouraging and Harboring Illegal Aliens

    It is a violation of law for any person to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection in any place, including any building or means of transportation, any alien who is in the United States in violation of law. HARBORING MEANS ANY CONDUCT THAT TENDS TO SUBSTANTIALLY FACILITATE AN ALIEN TO REMAIN IN THE U.S. ILLEGALLY. The sheltering need not be clandestine, and harboring covers aliens arrested outdoors, as well as in a building. This provision includes harboring an alien who entered the U.S. legally but has since lost his legal status.

    Actual specific knowledge is not required. For example, a newspaper article stating that ballrooms depend on an illegal alien work force of dance hostesses was held by the courts to be a reasonable ground for suspicion that unlawful conduct had occurred.

    IT IS ILLEGAL FOR NONPROFIT OR RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS to knowingly assist an employer to violate employment sanctions, REGARDLESS OF CLAIMS THAT THEIR CONVICTIONS REQUIRE THEM TO ASSIST ALIENS. Harboring or aiding illegal aliens is not protected by the First Amendment. It is a felony to establish a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of federal immigration law. Violators may be fined or imprisoned for up to five years.

    — Lilathe    Sep 12, 07:10 PM    #

13. Institutions seek diversity of all kinds. Having illegal students on campus to add to the dialouge about these very issues and potential solutions is exactly what we need. If they were academically more prepared than other students, they deserve the private funds. If you think differently, you are not respecting the notion of the American dream…which is WHY people immigrate to our country in the first place. What kind of Americans are you? The statue of liberty reads:
    “Give me your tired, your poor,

    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

    — Admissions Officer    Sep 12, 07:19 PM    #

14. Let’s be pragmatic and realistic – you won’t get free tuition in Mexico or most other countries because you have to be a citizen. If one is illegal in the country, like those of us who may be from another state than the state we’d like to attend college (even tho’ federal taxes are collected from all states and are then given back to states to support colleges/tuition), we have to pay out-of-state tuition. It makes no sense for those who ARE citizens who HAVE been paying(or parents paid for us) taxes to pay out-of-state tuition when there are those who are NOT citizens, who HAVEN’T been paying taxes (and many of those illegal folks work grey market+ paid in cash at a cheaper rate to avoid paying taxes or steal another’s SS # /identity to work for a paycheck) to get in-state/in-country.

    Enough of this blahblahblah – if you are old enough to attend college, you are old enough to apply to be a citizen. Get over the pity – get real – no matter what countrry you go to, you have to learn the language if you want to live there, you have to follow the laws, you have to at least get a ‘green card’ or whatever the status is – then you are legal.

    okay, you want to come here and you sneak in to work and send your money back home – fine but you aren’t entitled to services like the rest of us till you are legal. That’s the benefit of being legal. No matter where we came from, we all had to do it – get legal. The difference with MX people from other countries, is due to the distance , once you are here, it’s too hard to go back, where for the MX folks, it’s relatively easy to go back and forth across the border so they don’t feel much connection to here – not a lot of roots here – not much intention to settle in to become citizens – other wise they’d bother to learn the lingo/laws here and become legal.

    Bottom line – if you give tuition/financial aid to non-citizens, regardless of where you come fromthen you must abolish out-of-state, out-of-district tuition fees for everyone.

    As for the dude in CO who is legal from illegal parents, s/hes legal – end of story – entitled to the same as you or I. That’s another pragmatic/realistic thing, leave the bias out of it.

    — glclib    Sep 12, 09:46 PM    #

15. One thing I would like to point out after a little bit of research in ASU’s fact book…

    As of the 2005-06 school year, 66% of degrees awarded were to WHITE students, hispanics the closest ethinicity following at 10.7%.

    I’d also like to point out that its a quick assumption to think that the students are of mexican descent. Illegal immigrants can come from any country, any continent. Also, the last time I heard about any government process, it takes a while for things to happen, for example its takes a few months to get a passport to even get OUT of this country legally. I would think it would be logical that these “illegal” immigrants are working towards a legal status, but haven’t reached it yet.

    — Anne V    Sep 13, 09:19 AM    #

16. There is a cost to the infrastructure NOT covered by the “private donor funds” that these illegal students incur. And this is borne by the tax paying, legal citizens. The parents can be blamed for their status through the act of bringing them to this country or giving birth to them here illegally. That isn’t a blame or a cost I’m willing to bear. I have children too. I think that if we do not “sour the milk” and make it difficult for the individuals abusing our laws now, it will only get more difficult to enforce those laws later.

    — shawn    Sep 13, 09:54 AM    #

17. It is a quick assumption to think that the students are of Mexican descent, but it is probably not an invalid one. Don’t set up a straw man by claiming that the noncitizens could be from “any county, any continent” when you know darn well where most of the illigals in Arizona come from. Of course they don’t need a passport to get out. They can do so just as easily as they got in. As for quick assumptions, the “logical” conclusion that these illegals are working toward legal status but haven’t yet reached it is based upon pure conjecture.

    Shawn: I hadn’t thought about the infrastructure cost that is not covered by donations. I agree that if we don’t get a handle on the problem now, we may never be able to.

    — Tracy    Sep 13, 11:06 AM    #

18. The article seems to have an inherent bias when it refers to these illegal immigrants as Arizonians, they are not. We do need a means by which individuals can better obtain legal status but until then we need to enforce the law. That might even pressure the congress to come up with a better system.

    — jim    Sep 13, 11:20 AM    #

19. Wow – what a surprise to read traditional right-wing arguments (and poor spelling) on the Chronicle blog – I’m a new subscriber and assumed most people posting would have a more liberal stance on this complex issue – you keep surprising me! Good heated debate.

    — Linda    Sep 13, 11:49 AM    #

20. Proper spelling is important. Thanks for pointing that out. While spelling errors are sometimes a sign of poor education, so is bad inference—which is what you commit by inferring that arguments against illegal immigration are “traditional” or “right-wing,” and that only by taking a liberal stance can we solve complex issues. Moreover, you further illuminate your bias by assuming that liberals don’t (or shouldn’t) oppose illegal immigration. I recommend that you continue to focus on spelling, as it seems to be your strong point.

    — Tracy    Sep 13, 12:38 PM    #

21. Admissions Officer: “What kind of Americans are you?” Law-abiding and legal – my great grandparents emigrated according to the laws of the time and became productive, law-abiding CITIZENS.

    Your argument that we need illegal aliens (criminals) on campus for diversity is patently ridiculous and a slap in the face to students of all ethnic backgrounds who attend US colleges legally.

    You should be ashamed of yourself!

    — Janice J.    Sep 13, 01:07 PM    #

22. Janice: Is it conceivable that the children of immigrants who entered the US illegally would like to also become productive citizens? This pathologizing of folks who just want to contribute in the same ways you and I do seems less than humble to me. Are we to assume that White folks who came to the US a century ago have a monopoly on righteous immigration?

    — Bruce    Sep 13, 02:00 PM    #

23. The larger illegal immigration problem has been allowed to be institutionalized within a weak, profit-oriented Congress.

    Get over the witless arguments about the Indians being here first (NOT) or the fact that we are all immigrants. That is so trite and merely avoids the larger issue of selective law enforcement and liberal attitudes that seem to be based on anything but law, morality, right and wrong. If you don’t get a dose of these values in grade school or at home—you probably don’t have a clue what it’s all about.

    Congress has been in bed with the aggies , hotel/moteliers and cheap labor industries for many decades. Those billion dollar industries don’t share those monies downward—only upward. Congress allowed its own members to accept a few favors to allow this gross social injustice to take advantage of Chinese, Japanese and more recently, Mexicans.

    A gutless leaderless Congress has allowed this social problem to matastize throughout the SW and our own national inbreeding has then allowed it to grow exponentially. It’s another cancer on society and people want to hand out aspirin.

    It’s getting more difficult to tell what illegals want to prosper here or just blow it up and then go somewhere else. As the Mexican president said recently, wherever there are Mexicans there is Mexico. So much for assimilation into the American culture. What a joke.

    With one of the world’s largest oil reserves and bountiful resources, our corrupt neighbor stiil finds it easier to aggressively dump its citizens elsewhere and deprive them of a good life and the pursuit of happiness in what could have been a proud nation.

    The US can no longer save the world by itself. We need help. Let’s get some from Mexico.

    By the way—we were on the moon first. Do we own it or will the Chinese claim it like we took the west? Let your kids fix that one!

    — Otto T    Sep 13, 04:51 PM    #

24. Equity must prevail for the ultimate benefit of students.

    William Allan Kritsonis, PhD

    — Dr. William Allan Kritsonis    Sep 13, 05:05 PM    #

25. Bruce: If illegal immigrants wanted to become productive citizens, we would see it in their behavior. They have made no action to become citizens, not even to get a student visa. That speaks volumes.

    — Kathy    Sep 13, 07:32 PM    #

26. Bruce: Sounds like you’re the one “pathologizing” – which BTW means “to view or characterize as medically or psychologically abnormal.” Did you by chance in your humility mean “criminalizing?”

    Also whatever made you assume that my great grandparents were white? Which part of “it’s not about race” do you not understand?

    — Janice Jimenez    Sep 14, 08:21 PM    #

27. Lilathe seems to have nailed it. The law is clear. As the father of a college student, how can I teach my son which laws to obey and which not to obey?
    “Son, don’t ever lie or cheat or steal,” I say.
    “Why, dad?” asks he.
    “It’s against the law; it’s a felony!”
    “So what?” says he.
    “Well, let me see…hummm, that’s a good one son, ya really got me!”

    — Ron    Sep 17, 04:45 AM    #

28. I actually find a great deal of truth in both the so-called liberal and right-wing rhetoric represented. I agree that law and order are imperative for the long term good of any nation. Universities in this country generally do not award diplomas to people whose classes were all in Spanish, so the legality /appropriateness of the financial aid issue directly contradicts the weak argument that “none of them (Mexicans?) want to learn English”. Having worked in administration at a selective university in the past 15 years I have easily observed hundreds of privileged, pampered, “prepared” or in other cases legacy and politically admitted children of donors who flopped out in their first year. Then rules were bent (“broken?”) to allow them to continue their enrollment. Here’s some more conjecture – I haven’t seen many letters to the editor condemning tens of thousands of Russian or Eastern European brides who come here on spouse visas then get divorced as soon as it is feasible. They send lots and lots of money home and apply to bring siblings and family members to the U.S.“legally”. There doesn’t seem to be much public outcry against undocumented (“illegal”) Chinese Chinatown inhabitants. Maybe if “we” like the food or brides provided, and it is not a numerical threat (as in so many of “you “that “we” have to now hear “press 3 for Mandarin or press 4 for Russian”) it is not too much to get upset about. So while frustration is voiced about law breakers, let’s cover those other areas as well, shall “we”?

    — M Dixon    Sep 17, 02:18 PM    #

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