Barbara A. Lee:

Our time is up--I've enjoyed your questions, and I apologize for not getting to some of you. Thanks for participating in the Brown Bag.

Paula Wasley (Moderator):

Sadly we’ve come to the end of our hour. Thanks to you all for the terrific questions, and thanks again, Barbara Lee, for sharing your expertise with us. A transcript of the discussion will be available soon at The Chronicle’s website.

Question from Nancy Gilson, University of CA, San Diego:

I teach a broad, year long survey course on diversity in the US. The difficulty most often is not whether religion can have space in the classroom, but what kind of space it is granted. To engage a student about his/her religious ideas in a meaningful way- that is to say, that takes them seriously and that engages without patronizing or dismissing- requires that the faculty have some knowledge about religious histories and texts. Most faculty are prepared for alternative explanations that are discipline based, but not ones that come from "outside." In your estimation, how does a faculty member honestly address a question with a religious foundation when his/her knowledge may be limited?

Barbara A. Lee:

I think you could go about it a couple of ways. The faculty member can say that he/she isn't familiar enough with the pertinent religious doctrine to be able to answer the question or respond to a comment in a meaningful way. It's always OK to say you just don't know the answer or have the background. I suppose another possibility is to reserve a little time for a guest speaker on that issue if you think it's important the the students' learning. I think you can teach about religious diversity and tolerance without being an expert on every religion represented in the class (or in the course).

Question from Ski, University of Texas at Arlington:

If not pertinent to the course topic, can you put on your syllabus that students cannot interject their religious beliefs into their papers?

Barbara A. Lee:

I wouldn't say it quite that way. I would say on the syllabus or in the assignment that the assignment is based on very specific requirements (whatever they are) and that students who do not follow the assignment will either lose points, receive a failing grade, or will be required to redo the paper (depending on what your preferences are in responding to a paper that doesn't comply with the assignment). I think to forbid a religious discussion on the syllabus suggests that you are going to penalize only that way of not complying with the course assignment.

Question from Jack Wall, Loyola University Chicago:

Increasingly we are experiencing students who express that they do not feel comfortable to share ideas, values and beliefs that are contrary to their peers, faculty, and professional Code of Ethics (social work). These issues can range from religious, polictical, and moral value differences. The balance between the univeristy being a free market of ideas and a professional school can be challenging.

Barbara A. Lee:

Yes, I agree--and the results of the University of Georgia survey were very enlightening. I'm thinking that perhaps institutions should create some out-of-class, non-graded mechanisms for exploring these differences so that students don't worry (whether or not their worries are justified) about any kind of impact of their ideas on grading or evaluation for their professional certification. Whether or not students would take advantage of co-curricular opportunities to explore value differences, I'm not certain, given the results of the survey I mentioned. It's too bad.

Question from arnold asrelsky, Queensborough Community College, retired:

A student in class claims that homosexuality is immoral. Another student claims the first is homophobic. How does the instructor respond?

Barbara A. Lee:

Is the topic of homosexuality related to the subject matter of the course? If not, then both comments are out of line and you should tell them that you do not intend to continue that discussion in class. If the topic is relevant, then I would tell both students that you will talk with them outside of class. This is not an argument that either student is going to "win," and I expect that you really don't want an extended discussion of either of these comments during class.

Question from CB,small community college in conservative area:

Most of my course centers on controversial topics since I teach sociology. I usually repeat over and over that the lectures are based on sociological theory not my personal belief system. Sometimes this works but I can tell from comments and body language that a few students get very upset. Does having a written contact or agreement provide some form of protection? My syllabus discusses the nature of the course and require each student to agree to requirements. Is that enough?

Barbara A. Lee:

I think making it clear on the syllabus that the course covers controversial topics and that you are approaching those topics from a theoretical perspective is the right approach. You can expand on that if you wish (and perhaps you already do) by saying that you are not discussing your personal beliefs and you don't expect students to have to disclose theirs, that this is a course that examines various sociological theories and that what is required of the students is that they learn and understand--but not necessarily agree with--those theories.

Question from Pam Wright, large public research university:

Could you explain how you would addres the following scenario: your students are writing papers in which they are asked to argue about the constitutionality of abortion laws. A student is writing a paper which has a thesis that does not engage the law, cases, and lectures on the subject, but rather states that abortion is morally wrong according to the Bible. How do you approach this situation?

Barbara A. Lee:

I would return the paper to the student, ungraded if you wish, and tell him/her that he/she didn't follow the assignment instructions and must redo the paper. The paper is to discuss what the law says--and the student isn't being asked to agree with the law, but to discuss what the courts have said. That is perfectly legal for you to do. An alternative is to fail the student on the paper, which is also legal, but if you have time to require a re-write, that is what I would do.

Question from MC, public comprehensive state institution:

I was a new adjunct this past spring teaching a graduate level course at a private, four-year institution. One of the students in my course was very passionate about the topic (critical issues in higher education) but sometimes would derail into somewhat negative commentary about individuals or groups outside of the course. What is the appropriate response here?

Barbara A. Lee:

You as the instructor can stop the student if he/she wanders off topic and tell him/her that the discussion needs to be focused on that day's topic. It is ok to interrupt a student if he/she is not staying on topic. You can tell the student that he/she can discuss other issues with you after class but that class time--scarce as it is--has to be reserved for discussion that is relevant to that day's topic.

Question from John, large public instituion:

In an overseas program (ex. study abroad) many educational activities and excursions which are integral parts of the overall course may fall on days where religious customs and activites interfere with the scheduled events. Students often request to skip the day's excursion on religious grounds. Can the instructor require the student to be responsible for the information she missed due to the absence or must the instructor provide alternate materials (notes, slides, etc.)? What other accomodations may need to be made?

Barbara A. Lee:

Interesting question. I think the approach should be the same as the approach used back home at your institution. How do you handle making up material/assignments missed because of a religious holiday on your U.S. campus? Do you require students to get notes from classmates or the instructor back home? How much of the course content has the student missed? In the future (I know this won't help at present) would it be possible to try to schedule around these holidays to try to minimize the problem? Can you arrange a make-up visit to a museum without substantial additional cost or time? Perhaps your study abroad information could notify students ahead of time that important excursions or activities will occur on a specific day so that they can take that into consideration when they apply for the program. To the degree that the instructor can provide supplementary material without having to create it only for that student, I think it would be reasonable to provide it--or even to offer to provide it to any student, whether they participated in the excursion/activity or not.

Comment from Samuel Barnett, UMUC:

Thanks for the clarification. Now I get it.

Question from David Wolfe - Champlain College:

Would you suggest providing a content disclaimer in the syllabus or before each lecture in anticipation. In particular, the evaluation of web resources in web design critique sesssions can take folks to obscene web sites as the click-throughs are studied. As a follow up, obscenity is defined by community standards. IN the classroom, who is the ciommunity? The community of learners, teachers, the hosting community? How does that change within the context of distance learning/LMS systems.

Barbara A. Lee:

Well, that's a lot of questions! Yes, I would put a content disclaimer in your syllabus and it wouldn't hurt to remind students, either before the next class or at the beginning of a particular class, about the content you will be covering. There hasn't been much litigation involving community standards with respect to college curricula. The best approach, I believe, is to have some consensus on the pedagogical justification for course content--we do that instinctively as faculty when we develop a new course or revise an existing one. What will this particular book, website, or case contribute to the students' learning experience? Why this one and not another one? We have limited time and resources--what is most important? When a court reviews a challenge to course content or some college production (such as a play), it will generally defer to the college or faculty member's academic expertise with respect to selecting course or curricular material, particularly if the academic judgment is genuine. For example, in a couple of cases involving claims of sexual harassment by students who didn't like certain course assignments, the reviewing courts deferred to the faculty members' academic, pedagogical justifications for requiring, for example, that a student write an essay about Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal," even though students found it offensive to read and think about. The courts deferred to the academic judgment of the faculty members--but, of course, there needs to be thoughtful consideration by the faculty member of the pedagogical contribution of whatever assignment or resource is used. I don't think the courts would act any differently if the course were taught through distance learning.

Question from Samuel Barnett, University of Maryland University Collect:

In your last answer you said, "And if the course is not required for a major in art, for example, I think you are on even firmer ground." Is this correct? Did you mean to type "if your course IS required ..."? I would think that the content of a required course would carry more weight in the argument than the content of a non-required course.

Barbara A. Lee:

No, I meant "isn't required." If the course isn't required for a major then the student has the option not to take it in the first place and has a much weaker argument--either legally or pedagogically--for insisting on avoiding certain subjects or requirements.

Question from University of Texas at Arlington:

What do you do with students who want to give their religious testimony in classes or in their papers?

Barbara A. Lee:

In part it would depend on what the subject of the class is. Unless their religious testimony is relevant to the subject matter of the class, I would tell them that they may not do this--that if they want to testify outside class and certain class members wish to be involved, they can arrange it. I would also apply that to their papers. If the testimony is about a topic related to the subject matter of the course, I think you should allow them to speak about it and write about it (if it is relevant to the assignment). But you can limit the amount of time or focus you give to the religious testimony, as long as you do the same for the comments of other students that are not based upon religion.

Question from Bob Spivey,Society for Values in Higher Education:

In view of general religious illiteracy in the United States, how feasible is study about religion at the public school level?

Barbara A. Lee:

I can't really speak about K-12 curriculum matters, except as the parent of a former public school student. Some public high schools have classes on the Bible as literature. Others teach comparative religion courses. I think as long as these courses are electives and are taught as comparative or literature courses, they should pass constitutional muster.

Question from Gary Davis, University of Illinois at Springfield:

Could you suggest an effective strategy for me to use when one of my students insists that it is his "free speech right" to make disrespectful comments about "prehistoric theists" whose religions have "covered the globe with blood."

Barbara A. Lee:

Well, since you're at a public institution, he does have some free speech rights. But he doesn't have the right to interject his personal opinions at every possible opportunity, particularly if they're not on point. I would talk with the student outside of class and tell him that you understand his point of view (after all you have heard it frequently) but that you expect him to provide constructive comments that are clearly related to the subject matter of the discussion. You can also insist that students speak only when called on by you (obviously you would have to apply this to all your students) and then limit the number of times you call on him. I have had students like this one, and making it clear that you want to hear from him when he has something relevant and constructive to say should help deal with this problem.

Question from Shelley Kostrinsky, University of Washington:

What is your opinion as to the impact in the classroom of the recently decided case by the Third Circuit, DeJohn v. Temple University?

Barbara A. Lee:

The case, for those of you who haven't read it, is troubling because the court ruled that the prior sexual harassment policy at Temple University, whose language followed quite closely the language used by the EEOC in its guidelines for responding to sexual harassment in the workplace, was unconstitutional. The outcome of the case appears to require that a harassment policy only be applied if the conduct or speech deprives a student of the ability to participate equally in the academic experience. That's a pretty high standard to meet before disciplining someone for violating a harassment policy. That said, the professor can have his/her own policy regarding the way that classroom discussions are conducted. Stating a policy of no personal attacks, tolerance of viewpoints with which you disagree, discussion closely related to the subject matter of the course--all of these should help reduce conflict. When a student makes a comment or asks a question in my class that isn't relevant to the subject matter, and I think it may elicit a negative reaction from one or more students, I just tell the student I'll be happy to discuss the matter with him/her after class, and that has worked for me--at least so far!

Question from Bryce Brimer, Rogers State University:

I have students sign a contract, stating they are aware my Art Appreciation course will show some possibly offensive pieces of art. This is a Gen. Ed course not required. Is it legal to have them sign this contract? What do I do if they don’t sign it, or if they don’t comply on religious grounds? Does this contract protect me legally?

Barbara A. Lee:

I'm not sure that you need to have students sign a "contract" about this if you add this statement to your syllabus and make sure that you draw students' attention to that statement (and, of course, give them the syllabus). I do something similar in a course I teach on employment discrimination, saying that it will deal with controversial subjects [such as affirmative action]. I also say that I expect them to conduct themselves with respect and tolerance for the perspectives of other students. This seems to work--at least it has so far. I think the syllabus statement would protect you because the student is on notice of the type of materials that will be included in the course.

Question from Bryce Brimer, Rogers State University:

What should I do when a student refuses to draw a nude figure in a figure drawing class, saying that is is immoral?

Barbara A. Lee:

I don't know enough about art to know whether drawing a nude human body is an important aspect of learning to draw. If it is--then I think you could require it. This is a tough one, however. I would consult with your departmental colleagues and get some consensus on whether drawing a nude is an important component of the course/curriculum and what alternatives, if any, would be acceptable on a pedagogical basis. If the purpose of the assignment is for students to learn how to portray muscles, bones, etc. that underly the skin, would drawing an animal provide a similar type of learning opportunity, or must it be human? You need to ground your decision, whatever it is, in the pedagogical justification for the assignment. And if the course is not required for a major in art, for example, I think you are on even firmer ground.

Question from Texas A&M University-Kingsville:

Some institutions Native American student populations. Could you provide information on spirituality (such as smudging) and the issues in law versus treaties with Native populations in regard to FERPA or other issues? Thanks, Barbara!

Barbara A. Lee:

I'm not sure that I understand your question or how tribal practices interact with FERPA. And I'm not really familiar with the contents of treaties with Native American populations. Would you mind expanding on your question a bit and I'll try again?

Question from John K. Wilson, collegefreedom.org:

I think this fear of a lawsuit is rather silly; I've never heard of a successful lawsuit claiming religious or political bias over a course assignment (except for the ridiculous University of Utah theater case) or a classroom discussion. The fear I have is that informal pressures cause professors to avoid difficult conversations and controversial topics. What can colleagues and institutions do to encourage professors to add controversy to their classes?

Barbara A. Lee:

Actually there have been several lawsuits about art exhibits, the performance of plays, and, of course, the Axson-Flynn case that you refer to. Referring to my opening statement, as long as the course assignments and class discussion are germane to the subject matter of the course and the instructor handles student concerns with sensitivity and fairness, there are unlikely to be legal problems. And the courts have rejected challenges to the decisions of several institutions to require all first year students to read the same book and discuss it, either at orientation or early in the semester. These challenges were on religious grounds (the books typically involved a discussion of Islam), and were dismissed by the courts. In response to your question about encouraging professors to "add controversy," that, I believe, is an individiual faculty decision. Some institutions have policies that allow students to request alternative assignments on religious grounds, and an appeal process if the faculty member rejects that request. I think this is a sensible approach, and one that, even if used rarely, gives the student an opportunity to object and have his or her concerns reviewed and resolved.

Question from Harriet, urban community college:

One of our instructors raised the issue of taking attendance where a student is in a veil covering the entire face with a screen of lace covering the eyes. The instructor felt it was impossible to determine if the student was who she said she was, given the clothing. The student, of course indicated that the garb was mandated by her religion. We are required to take attendance under a variety of grant regulations. How should this issue be dealt with?

Barbara A. Lee:

Assuming that the instructor calls the roll, the student would presumably answer that she is "here." That is all that is required, as far as I can tell from your question. I would leave it at that.

Question from F. McLaughlin, small community college:

In the past I have not provided alternate reading assignments for students who object to an assignment on the basis of religion, race, or morality in general. Usually, students react to the first paragraph(s) of an assignment without attempting to understand the actual intent of the piece, so I encourage them to complete the reading and then come talk to me about it privately if they have concerns. (I do not make the assignment optional.) Am I putting myself or my school in jeopardy by doing this?

Barbara A. Lee:

I think your strategy is a good one. It is not a violation of free speech or religion, or academic freedom, to require students to read a text that is relevant to the course material, and your sensitivity to the student's concerns is very important to deflecting any potential legal liability. The instances in which colleges have been found to have legal liability centered on giving some students alternate assignments but not others when those students denied the exemption or alternative assignment objected on religious grounds. If your practice is consistent with respect to having the student read the material first and then speak with you about the assignment--perhaps adapting it in some ways that still meet your pedagogical goals but meeting some of the student's concerns--I think you should be OK.

Question from Michael, 4 yr comprehensive public college:

Teaching Gen Ed survey of Biology, I discuss the nature of science and how scientific "truths" are different from religious "truths"; I point out that, even though individual scientists may be religious, the scientific enterprise is "a-theistic" in that God can't be used as an explanation. Suppose a religious student wishes to be excused from answering test questions on this discussion. Am I on firm ground to insist that s/he must answer or lose points?

Barbara A. Lee:

I think you can insist that she answer the question--you are asking her, I assume, basically to repeat what you have stated in class. You could tell her that she may add to her answer that she does not agree with this characterization of scientific truths, and you should not take points off if she does that, but you do have a right to ascertain that she has learned the course information. As long as you are not asking her to agree with you, you can enforce course requirements equitably.

Barbara A. Lee:

The curriculum at most colleges and universities is full of potentially controversial subjects--religion, politics, race and ethnic relations, women's concerns--and discussions about these issues can raise strong passions. Although many faculty are convinced that an important part of becoming an educated person is having one's beliefs and viewpoints challenged, a recent study of students at the University of Georgia demonstrated that many students don't wish to have their beliefs challenged and are uncomfortable with classmates whose beliefs differ from theirs. The instructor needs to create a classroom climate in which students can share their thoughts about course topics without feeling intimidated or disrespected--and, particularly in public colleges and universities--without running afoul of free speech or academic freedom protections for students. Setting expectations at the very beginning of the course for students should help create and maintain a classroom atmosphere of respect for the viewpoints of others and civil discourse. Students should not be belittled or taunted--by either other students or by the instructor--for discussing viewpoints or beliefs that differ from others'. The instructor sets an important example for the stuents by his or her response to provocative or unpopular comments or questions.

Paula Wasley (Moderator):

Hello and welcome to today’s Brown Bag discussion on dealing with religion in the classroom. I’m Paula Wasley, a reporter covering teaching and curriculum issues for The Chronicle. Many thanks to our guest, Barbara A. Lee, for joining us today. We have a lot of good questions coming in, so let’s get started.