Taking Lessons From Continuing Education

Thursday, November 1, at 12 noon, U.S. Eastern time

Since 2003, when he became vice president for adult and continuing education at Northeastern University, Christopher E. Hopey has overseen an operation that has grown in size and profitability. A former dean of the school of education at the University of Pennsylvania, Mr. Hopey says the most successful continuing-education programs take a tough-minded approach to finance and pay attention to customer service. As he told The Chronicle last year, "nonprofit doesn't mean nonbusiness."

A transcript of the chat follows.

Goldie Blumenstyk (Moderator):
    Greetings all and welcome to today's Brown Bag. I'm Goldie Blumenstyk, a senior writer in the Money & Management section here at The Chronicle. And we're thrilled to have Chris Hopey with us today to answer your questions about lessons to be learned from continuing education. So please, send them along, as I know Chris is eager to hear from you.

Question from Anonymous at a Connecticut College:
    How much does your school of professional and continuing education do online? And, do you think this was significant in your success and increased profit?

Christopher E. Hopey:
    We have increased our student enrollments considerably by online to roughly 33% of our students are enrolled online per year. In addition, an additional 20 percent are in hybrid online courses. Distance learning is roughly 50 percent of our adult learners. This has allowed us to increase revenue, increase enrollments and provide a much better service and experience to busy adults. It has been significant if not fundamental in the success of the school. And its prospects for the future.

Question from Terri, mid-size institution:
    I work for a university with a well-developed brand positioning and no school of continuing education. While we have considered starting one, there are extensive concerns that the University brand is not relevant for a CE target audience. Are there any lessons learned regarding optimizing the alignment between the University brand/mission and the School of CE brand/mission?

Christopher E. Hopey:
    Yes. It is my feeling in brand management that there are various levels of market segmentation. Companies like GM and GE do this well. GM has Cadillac and Chevy. They have common components and seen differently for different markets and they all have their own quality.

Continuing education can be at either the Cadillac or Chevy level. If you have a school of business obviously executive education tailored to executives is the Cadillac of continuing ed. But if you are trying to use continuing education as a way of people getting access you have to think about the brand. One enhances the brand and one changes the brand, not so much good or bad, but different. And together it may be even more powerful. The key is market segmentation.

Question from T. Scerbo, Qualcomm Inc.:
    What do you see as a successful relationship between corporations who have employees needed access to academic education and schools of continuing education? Follow-up question: When do corporate tuition assistance programs help or hinder access to quality continuing education for adult learners?

Christopher E. Hopey:
    We have a lot of good relationships with companies in the Boston area. For us, we try to be flexible by offering online and hybrid courses. We offer discounted and group pricing. And we are always looking to customize the curriculum for the clients specific needs.

On the individual basis, tuition assistance helps. But for many companies, they would like to do it as contract training. Depends on the needs of the company and their wants.

Question from Denise McFall, Savannah College of Art and Design:
    How can continuing education deans and directors affect the mind-sets of the "traditional arms of colleges and universities" to acknowledge the successes of CE programs in 1) meeting the academic needs of the nontraditional student market, and 2) in contributing significantly to the institution's financial coffers, when these very programs are too often viewed to be subordinate to and less than "regular degree programs?"

Christopher E. Hopey:
    This is an area that I happen to be an expert at. This may sound counter intuitive but the best way to get traditional parts of the university to acknowledge and be part of CE to have them have ownership over it. This is important because it creates a set of campus advocates who have a reason to and want to support it.

Ownership comes in many forms. Sometimes it's teaching, sometimes it's serving as an academic director of a program. Sometimes it is an endorsement of an academic department and return they have some financial gain that can be used to supplement budgets or traditional aspects of the university. Regardless of the method, it's a two way street.

At Northeastern, we have created a committee called the Academic Council which is appointed by the provost and the faculty senate and has approximately 15 faculty members, associate deans of other colleges and myself as chair. This body serves as oversight- faculty body- of the school. They are advocates and involved in the success of the school. It has been a hallmark of our success.

We also make things transparent so people can see what we're doing, why we're doing them and finally, we celebrate our graduates and share that universally across the university. It is hard to argue when we have a successful CEO who went to the continuing education program and gives back to the university in time, energy and money. Everybody wins because ultimately that CEO is one of our successes.

Question from Talbert B. Spence, Westchester Community College:
    What hybrid models have you implemented or witnessed that nurtures a healthy non-credit and credit program collaborations?

Christopher E. Hopey:
    We actually don't combine credit and non-credit. However, we do use our noncredit business as much more of a professional development to world class experts on a very narrow topic such as OSHA training. Whereas the credit is much more focused on degree earning programs.

Question from Mathias Mbah, Bowie State University:
    How can continuing education be used to generate external funding in an institution?

Christopher E. Hopey:
    The federal and state governments are huge consumers of training. Here at Northeastern, we have GSA certification, which gives federal employees access to a schedule of our courses. This works much like a contract or grant on the research side. Second, continuing education should not be something you don't do- but a delivery model for things you are good ad. So what are the successes of Bowie State and do those successes have additional markets or populations they want to our could serve. That's one way to be successful. Build from your base, from your successes.

Question from Mary Ann Waclawik, Brookdale Community College, Lincroft, NJ:
    What is the biggest trend you have seen in continuing education over the past 10 years? Describe your most successful venture in this area? What resources or infrastructure should colleges be putting in place to capitalize on CE's growing position in education? Have you seen the credit side of the house--specifically faculty--getting anxious about CE's growing trend? If so, how is this issue to be addressed? Thank you, Mary Ann Waclawik

Christopher E. Hopey:
    The biggest trend is distance learning. Our successful venture in this area is an online hybrid master's in sports leadership where students take courses online during the academic year and are required to come to Boston for an intensive set of courses during the summer - that can only be taken on campus. We are blessed to be in a great sports city and thus, utilize the Red Sox, the Patriots and others as venues to give our students practical exposure to the world of sports. This has made our program very successful.

We have not seen the faculty get anxious about CE's growing trend. At Northeastern, they have embraced it. Leaders of continuing education must articulate constantly the role of CE, its importance to the institutions, mission of being extensive and shared governance in that. We address the issues of anxiety directly by being transparent, listening, building from our strengths and sharing in our successes all through shared governance.

Question from JoAnn Rolle, LIM College, small college:
    Any advice for an institution that is beginning to think about delivering continuing education?

Christopher E. Hopey:
    Yes. Do some market research. I work with a firm called Eduventures here in Boston. We do a lot of analysis on markets and programs. It is worth every last dime we spend to get that advice because it helps us make the right decisions and be successful.

Question from cheryl arnold:
    How can I get financial help for returning to college as a working adult with not enough money to pay for continuing with a family of five and too much money to qualify for financial aid. It seems the online available help asks you to buy a book to get information.

Christopher E. Hopey:
    There are a number of places to help you get aid. However, the majority of continuing education students now use student loans to help defray the cost. Although for many people, loans are not seen as the best option. If you do the actual fiscal analysis they tend to be more than worthwhile because a degree or new skills will increase your earning potential. You should talk to your financial aid office at the institution you are planning to attend. They can and should guide you and help you find the best option possible- loans, grants and institutional aid. Make sure you shop around because different institutions will help you.

Question from Mary Ann Waclawik, Brookdale Community College, Lincroft, NJ:
    How do you analyze the market in your area?

Christopher E. Hopey:
    With Eduventures we are part of their learning collaborative, which includes over 100 programs in the US. We also work with Aslanian Associates out of NY and a group called Brand Monitor that researches client perceptions. We spend significant dollars tracking and monitoring our marketplace. We can't predict the future but we can plan for it and good research helps with planning.

Question from Goldie Blumenstyk:
    Chris, we've had quite a few questions about market research. Obviously, you do a lot of it. Can you tell us what you are looking for? Interest? Some sense of what people are willing to pay? How far they are willing to drive? Are these the questions?

Christopher E. Hopey:
    I look for three things. 1. Does the idea or potential program have an audience of substantial size and sustainability, which we define as 5 years. 2. Does the potential program lend itself to a variety of delivery formats and is the audience open to those formats- hybrid, online, etc. 3. Finally, what is the price elasticity of the student demand. In other words, how much are they willing to pay.

From our own experience, willingness to pay has a lot to do with teaching and the type of credential, pay more for doctorate, master's degree, etc. How far are they willing to drive depends on how far they are willing to go. If they have to drive twice a week, we have suburban locations and online.

The most important question is can we deliver a high quality program that fits the nature of our institution. At a Liberal arts college it will be difficult to launch a medical lab science program because start-up costs would be higher, the market will be unfamiliar with your institution and the culture of your institution may not support this program. These are some of the other questions to ask yourself. It is always important that the market have context. Build from your successes. Think. Strategize. Underestimate and be conservative in your projections.

Question from Robert, community college:
    What are your thoughts on the role of community colleges in workforce development activities? Are you a competitor or a partner to community colleges (not just competition for students, but also funding, etc.)? Thanks, Robert

Christopher E. Hopey:
    The community college has a major role in workforce development as does the university. They could be at different or the same levels or together or separately. When people ask me questions about competition, I answer it in the following way. I'm not worried about what my local community college is doing. I'm worried about India and Bejing and Phoenix, Arizona. Traditional CE has lots of competitors - the nonprofit world of higher ed and the public world of higher ed need to work together to solve basic education issues in their communities but also around the world. So we tend to enter our local conversations from a partnership standpoint and share. Our ultimate goal is to serve our various communities and not necessarily to always have excess revenue and contributions.

Question from Sal Liberto from Newbury College in Brookline, MA:
    What do you think the future holds for traditional so-called "ground only" CE programs? Will they they continue to lose market share to on-line options? Thanks.

Christopher E. Hopey:
    My belief is that traditional on ground CE programs will be stretched in the coming decade. It doesn't mean they will go away but they will need to be different. To specialize more or to add higher value or perhaps go hybrid. I believe there is a place for the traditional evening CE program but like any market-driven organization, who is dependent upon enrollments, students/customers are asking for, in fact demanding, alternative delivery models. If you don't diversify you may die.

Question from Janet Spetko, Brookdale CC.:
    Are you using distance learning in all areas of CE? More than just healthcare?

Christopher E. Hopey:
    We are using them across the board. Even in on ground courses, all of our courses utilize Blackboard. We purchased our own Blackboard system whether it is onground, online or hybrid courses. Blackboard serves as the starting point and the umbrella of our programs. This has made it easier for students who take courses on ground to also take courses online. Students have been able to get up to speed quicker with online technology.

Question from Seth, Private Research University:
    Three questions: How often are continuing education students seeking admission into the “traditional” institution, do you market the CE program as a way to “get in” and what are the differences between these students and those who are not looking to matriculate?

Christopher E. Hopey:
    We do not. The units are demarcated as residential and part-time/adult. Again, we do this because we believe there are multiple markets that large research universities serve. One size does not fit all and as an institution we do not take that approach. This allows us to incubate ideas in CE, serve markets we have traditionally not served and provide executive level education and also serve as an access point to adults who may have missed an opportunity to go to a residential college when they were younger. There are times when the flow of students comes from the residential college when they are not retained but want to come back later in life.

Question from Anonymous at a Connecticut College:
    Thank you for your answer about online delivery of adult programs. Your growth in revenue and enrollment certainly confirms, for me, that online is the way to go with busy adults. I have another question about marketing for online programs. What have you found works the best to reach out to adults with your online programs?

Christopher E. Hopey:
    This is an interesting questions. We have found two things increase online business. 1. Online advertising through Google, Yahoo and we use a service called CUNET to manage more than 1,000 websites and online advertising of those. 2. Another website for boston is Boston.com, which is part of the Boston Globe. It gives us the ability to reach target audiences. We use targeted direct mail (Program targeted) to speciality audiences such as sports leadership marketed to athletic directors in colleges and high schools. Transitional doctorate in Physical Therapy to physical therapists.

Question from Mike Massey, University of Georgia, research university:
    Chris, How do top continuing education/lifelong learning units typically finance their growth? is it through what businesses would call retained earnings from last years' "profits," or have universities/colleges begun to invest in these services for historically unserved populations, such as retirees?

Christopher E. Hopey:
    We finance our growth through basically RCM- responsibility center management budgeting model. Thus, for every dollar we make some share goes to the university, a large portion goes to running the program, some to marketing and some into our venture capital fund. We use this internal venture capital to start up and fund new programs. It is clear to me that we give most new programs a three year window to be able to meet their RCM responsibilities. Many programs do not fulfill their contribution share to the university in their first two years.

Obviously, there are various market segmentations that have price elactiscity associate with them- retirees are one market that is more of a service market, even though it is grown, because the price elasticity is high. High price, less students. It is a volume business. As we have an executive doctorate in law and policy where we have low price elasticity where price is almost irrelevant to the demand. In fact the more we charge, the more want to come.

Question from Mathias Mbah, Bowie State University:
    What has been the impact of Continuing Education on specific academic programs, enrollment, retention and graduation?

Christopher E. Hopey:
    We have been very creative in increasing retention and enrollment. It has always been my feeling that CE programs nationally have always focused on enrollments rather than retention. However, we have found that much of our success has been in retaining students through accelerated programs, tutoring, coaching, alternative delivery formats and creative scheduling. For example, we have 8 entry points instead of the traditional 2 and we run cohort programs and provide online tutoring and coaching through Inside Track. The combination of these have increased retention and graduation rates 15 -20 percent over the last few years, which has had significant impact on our bottom line.

Question from Gloria Pickar, Compass Knowledge Group:
    What are your new student induction strategies you employ to improve persistence/retention of new online students? Who is responsible for these strategies (role, title)? Have you done any research around effectiveness of such strategies?

Christopher E. Hopey:
    We outsource the service to a group called Inside Track, out of San Francisco. It is called enrollment and success coaching and every single one of our students who applies and enrolls is given a coach. Adult learning is like the Boston Marathon. It is a long haul and not a sprint. During that long haul different things happen in people lives- goals, lives and jobs change. The coaching provides two things- a constant support structure and an opportunity for students to go someplace when they need help navigating a large institution. This personalize, customized service has helped in retention of our students and increased satisfaction considerably.

Question from Simmons, Indiana:
    What advertising mode do you reap the most benefit? (mailings, web, etc.)

Christopher E. Hopey:
    The web has been most successful for us recently. However, direct mail has also been very successful but expensive. In the world of technology although there are better ways of reaching people it is also more expensive.

Question from Doug, ACT College:
    Are there specific economic and social conditions/forces that account for innovations in course offerings and delivery at this time in our history? Has the success of the for-profit education industry been partly responsible for innovations that have taken place at traditional institutions of higher education?

Christopher E. Hopey:
    The for profit businesses have forced changed. However, nonprofit doesn't mean non business. I think there is much to learn from the for profit world and they have much to learn from us. We at Northeastern have learned from their successes and we are also better at many of the things they do. Our success has been to embrace those things that makes the for profit world attractive to a CE student, acceleration, convenience, ease of service while at the same time tapping into the breadth and depth of a major research institution via faculty, ideas and innovations on the curricula side and applying them together. This is why we have been growing and are successful.

Goldie Blumenstyk (Moderator):
    Thanks folks, we'll have to wrap things up with that. On behalf of The Chronicle, I'd like to thank Chris for being our guest today and for all those very thoughtful answers.

Please join us next Thursday, when our guest will be Sirin Tekinay of the National Science Foundation, who will answer question about ways the agency is trying to deploy high-powered computing to new fields of research, and again on November 15, when we'll have a view from the trenches on emergency preparedness with guest John Nicholas of Beloit College, which is known for its mock-disaster drills.

Christopher E. Hopey:
    Colleagues I want to thank you very much for your great questions. Feel free to contact me or visit us at Northeastern if you want more information. Best, Chris