In Her Own Words: Secretary Spellings Says 'Time Is of the Essence' in Carrying Out Commission's Recommendations

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Issues in depth: Federal Commission on the Future of Higher Education

Excerpts: Secretary of Education Will Propose More U.S. Aid for Students and a Database to Track Their Progress in College

Speech: Secretary Spellings's Prepared Remarks at the National Press Club

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The secretary of education, Margaret Spellings, talked to The Chronicle's Kelly Field and Jeffrey Selingo on Monday, previewing a speech she is scheduled to give today regarding her Commission on the Future of Higher Education. She elaborated on some of the changes she calls for in her speech, including the creation of a database that would keep track of individual students' progress in college, increased spending on need-based student aid, and more accountability for colleges. Following are excerpts from the interview.

Q. Last week, [Grover J.] Russ Whitehurst [director of the Education Department's Institute of Education Sciences] told the National Board for Education Sciences that the department had been developing a database that would resolve privacy concerns by involving a "trusted third party in the process" that would change the Social Security number and name to a student ID number. Is this the prototype for what you're proposing for a student-tracking system?

A. That's the way the system can be developed so that we can ensure privacy is protected, which of course we fully intend to do and must do. The purpose here is to figure out how to have better information, better understanding about higher education in America as a consumer good. ... This is the same kind of thing we have done in K-12 education. ... We have great understanding ... of what schools teach third graders how to read better than others, and how well they do it for African-American kids and Hispanic kids. I can tell you that Ms. Smith's class seems to be getting better results than Ms. Jones's class and on and on. We have empowered our system with that information, and we have empowered our parents with that information, and it's serving kids better.

So I guess I'm wondering, as the secretary of education: If that's good enough for third graders, why shouldn't we have that kind of understanding about [higher education]? Just like in every other area of American life, we have come to expect information when we buy something -- particularly something that's expensive, that's so important for your life. We ought to know more. Our strategy has been previously to put the money in and hope for the best. And when higher education was nice to have, as opposed to a must-have, that might have been OK. But we have a third of the American people who have a college education and 90 percent of the fastest-growing jobs requiring it. Big disconnect.

Q. How do you intend to get over the opposition to the unit-record database among those in Congress and among some in higher education?

A. The first is understanding what it is we're talking about. I intend to do a better job at really what that means. When you buy a ticket to a movie online, you're creating a unit record; when you make a dinner reservation on the Internet, you create a unit record; when you buy a book from Amazon, that's a unit record. We have millions of unit records all over our lives. That's the kind of thing we intend to do and should do for this product. I guess what I'm wondering is, Why are people opposed to that? Why aren't we for this kind of empowerment and information?

Q. Do you think the prototype that has been developed addresses those privacy concerns?

A. Obviously, it's just a prototype. What we're proposing is that we ought to have a voluntary system that higher-ed institutions could participate in and get this kind of information. Lots of folks in the public systems that I'm aware of ... are crying for this ability to go to their state legislatures and make the case for resources because they know that their college of education is doing a great job. They are crippled by the lack of information as well. They want to be able to be more productive and more proficient and more customer-oriented, but without information it's hard for them to manage the enterprise. Just like in the old days of K-12 education, when we said get out and do good. Well, without being precise about how well we were serving which kids in what subjects, your hands are tied behind your back.

Q. Would colleges be required to report new data under this system?

A. That's obviously to be determined as part of the prototype process. These are glimmers in the commission's eye at this moment and actualizing through technology and so forth are the kinds of things we hope to work on.

Q. Have you talked to Congressional leaders about the fact that you're going to endorse this, and are they behind it?

A. Yes, I have talked with people about it. I am going to tell them as part of the story that really, except for the private colleges, the higher-education community is for this. The community colleges have endorsed this. The public colleges have endorsed this. As a customer of a private college [Ms. Spellings's daughter attends Davidson College, a private institution], I'm concerned that they fear this.

Q. Is there a way to put the unit-record database in place administratively through regulations if you can't get Congressional backing?

A. I don't know. That's the kind of discussion we ought to have with the Congress. I'm seeking resources so that we can provide assistance to the states who want to be part of this voluntary pilot program, so that we can develop a system like this, so that we can test it, so we can make sure the safeguards are in place, so that we can make sure it does all the things we hope it can do before we leap off into anything beyond that. It's totally and completely voluntary.

Q. How much money are you requesting?

A. I'm not going to pre-empt discussion of the president's budget when we are literally in the throes of negotiating it.

Q. You mention the importance of need-based aid in your speech. Will you propose any specific increase or endorse the commission's proposal to increase the Pell Grant to cover 70 percent of the average public-college tuition?

A. Well, the president has been a fan of the Pell Grant for a long time. We've just gotten these new Academic Competitiveness Grants and the Smart Grants. He has proposed Pell increases since the 2000 campaign. As for a specific number, no, I'm not going to call for it. Again, that's something that will be negotiated as part of the budget-development process.

Q. You say in your speech that money is not the answer. But is more money at least part of the answer?

A. Just like in K-12 education, money has been part of the answer, but I'm saying that we're just chasing our tail on price unless we know for what. Why? Plus, what the commission recommends does speak to the need for cost containment in control of rising tuition. There's kind of a quid pro quo in the commission's recommendation as something for something, not something for nothing. I know that many in the higher-ed community would like more free money, and butt out. But that's not what the commission has recommended.

Q. So what would the money be conditioned on?

A. Their condition is the slowing of the cost.

Q. Would you endorse the 70-percent figure if it's tied to controlling costs?

A. I'm not going to a jump onto a 70-percent figure or necessarily anything specific as we negotiate. But that's obviously a phased-in thing over time. But part of that question is 70 percent of what? I don't know what the Congress is going to say. Information, affordability, cost issues are on the minds of most Americans, particularly those of us who are sending their kids to school, and then recourses are certainly part of it. We have increased Pell. We haven't increased our purchasing power.

Q. Mr. Whitehurst has also said that the department was redesigning the College Opportunities Online Locator, or COOL, to give students and parents the ability to create their own tables of colleges. Is this something that was prompted by the commission?

A. I do think we envision, or the commission certainly envisions, to have a more customized approach to figuring out the value of higher education. That way, if I'm in Virginia, and I'm looking at Virginia and North Carolina schools, and my daughter is interested in engineering and Spanish, and we hope to have her go to a publicly funded institution, those are the sorts of flags you could put in, and those could net out a list, and you'd know something at the end of the day. I wish I had something as a parent when I was shopping for schools. My daughter got the feeling at a place that costs about $40,000 a year. I wish she could have gotten the feeling for a little less than that, but you know. It's not a very smart way to buy something that expensive.

Q. Do you foresee COOL replacing the U.S. News rankings system that is so popular with consumers?

A. It's popular with the people who are in the top-five rank, and everyone else thinks it's a beauty contest of self-reported information. It doesn't measure the most important thing. The reason I'm sending my daughter is that I hope she is learning something. I hope she will know something that will either allow her to continue her studies or get a good job when she is done. That seems like a reasonable thing to expect from that.

Q. In trying to explain why costs are increasing, colleges have cited things like salaries, utilities, etc. Do you buy that?

A. Those are the kinds of things you find in [the] housing [sector, too]. In housing, they have to buy a lot of gas; people employed in the housing industry have health-insurance premiums also. Why should this enterprise be up 375 percent over the period from 1982 to 2005, but medical care, which people are in uproar about, is up 223 percent? I think that [college costs] are outpacing every other indicator.

Q. For no good reason?

A. I'm not saying it's for no good reason. I'm just saying that I'd like to know the reasons. ... I have theories. Without any data, it's hard to really know if you're right or not.

Q. What are those theories?

A. I think there is a lack of productivity in the institutions. ... Institutions are not used on Fridays, and it's an enterprise that has a big, highly attractive, very adequate physical plant that is not used very much, or certainly has a lot of down time. That's part of it. Obviously, salaries are an issue. The need to attract talent is one. I don't know. Those are theories. I'd like a little information.

Q. Colleges will say they are like nothing else in the economy, that they can't be compared to health care or housing, etc.

A. Then they have nothing to fear. If it's a product that has those attributes, then they'll be able to convince their publics and their consumers that the 400-percent price increase is righteous and worth it.

Q. A lot of people were surprised about how quickly you acted to implement these recommendations. Why did you move so quickly?

A. Time is of the essence. There is an urgency here. The academy is underestimating the American public -- the anxiety and the urgency about this. We have sold the dream of college. Kids believe they should go. They believe they must have it. They believe this is the key to their futures. And more and more, it's unattainable, with respect to affordability and preparedness.

If it's in fact the case that the world is flat and that we're going to be the world's innovator, and the world's leader, and that we're not going to compete with the world on price, then we'd better be the world's leader on innovation. And how are we going to do that? Education. There is an urgency here. If we don't address this, I'm afraid the world will pass us by. Are American institutions of higher education going to rise to the occasion and be lean fighting machines for American consumers or not? Because someone is. That's the way education and knowledge work. I believe they will. I believe they have it in them.

Q. Have you responded to the letter from Senators [Edward M.] Kennedy and [Michael B.] Enzi expressing concern about the Education Department's plans for rulemaking and their claim that most of the commission's recommendations would require legislative action before they could be included in regulation?

A. I have. I have said that I have no intention of usurping the legislative authority they have by any stretch.

Q. What did you think of David Ward's being the only member of the commission not to sign on to its report? What does that say about the academy? [Ward is the president of the American Council on Education.]

A. He has membership issues, I guess. I'm encouraged that Nasulgc [National Association of State Universities and Land-Grant Colleges] and the community colleges and the large publics [support it]. There is a lot of support in large parts of his membership.

Q. Are you confident that colleges will be collaborative partners in getting these recommendations implemented?

A. I think a lot of people in higher education know this, get this, and are working on it. I think we can be their partner and help them do it better and faster. ... Organizations don't typically change themselves. I think they want and need help.

Q. We're about to go into a midterm election, into the last two years of this administration, so how are you going to ensure that this stays on the front burner?

A. I know I'm going to talk about it a lot because I know this is what my next-door neighbor is worried about, what your next-door neighbor is worried about. People are worried about higher education in America. They are worried about affordability, about attainability -- they understand what it means for their family and for our country -- and so I think the public is highly sensitive to this issue.

Q. Will this overtake the No Child Left Behind Act in terms of importance for your office in the last couple of years of the administration?

A. We can walk and chew gum at the same time up here.

Q. Will it take as much priority as No Child Left Behind?

A. We're at a different stage with this issue. ... This is the beginning of the discussion. I've been encouraged that there's been a lot more written in the press about this subject. I think this is a journey.

Q. Over all, are you satisfied with the commission's report?

A. I'm pleased and satisfied. I think it's very thorough. It's thorough. It's powerful. It's a good piece of work.