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Author Topic: Got tenure but denied promotion. Would you hire me at your school?  (Read 21751 times)
clean
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« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2012, 10:48:37 PM »

You have not asked, but I will say that I think that this is one of the most idiotic things that a university could do. 

What have they accomplished?  They have given you a job that would be very difficult to fire you from and Royally pissed you off.  You dont HAVE to go up for promotion again ever.  All you have to do is enough to keep your job. 

Do you really think that, should you stay, that you will be an outgoing, eager, first to volunteer type person? 


Again, you didnt ask, but when I was faced with such decisions while I was on the committee, if I could not vote to promote, then I would not vote to tenure.  (Not that it mattered, they were tenured anyway, but not promoted.  And that person all these years later has not once made an effort to go up for promotion.  I am now on post tenure review, and would not be surprised to see that person come up some day). 

In all of my time as a faculty member, I have met a number of people that have been denied tenure and found other places to work.  I can not think of a single one that wishes that they were back where they were denied.  They have all gone on to better (at least for them) places.  I think that every one that I know is happier where they are now than where they left. 

I didnt marry all (any actually) of the women I dated.  One way or another each one of us has found a better fit.  Universities are like that too.  Not every one will meet your needs, and you may not meet theirs.

I believe that I advised you before to get on the market and look for a better place to work.  Life is too short to have to spend a lot of time with people you dont like.  The best news is that you are not forced to leave.  You can take some time to keep looking and not have to take the first offer that comes along.

Good luck to you.
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luckychance
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« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2012, 9:14:23 PM »

Why worry about it? You've got tenure - ride that gravy train as long as you can.
I agree though I'm sure if I were in the OP's situation, I'd do some worrying. Just think of how fortunate you are to have tenure though.
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revolver1966
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« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2012, 12:05:17 AM »

My experience was the exact opposite. I was promoted, but denied tenure (both in the same year, by the same committee).

Go figure.

I did win the appeal, however, so I now have tenure.
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octoprof
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« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2012, 12:15:37 AM »

My experience was the exact opposite. I was promoted, but denied tenure (both in the same year, by the same committee).

Go figure.

I did win the appeal, however, so I now have tenure.

Congratulations!

So if you didn't win the appeal, would you still be employed long term if you didn't have tenure? How would that have worked out? I'm curious because it seems so backward to me to get promoted but not tenured (other way around not so much).
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revolver1966
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« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2012, 12:18:12 AM »

Had I lost the appeal, I would have been given a one-year terminal contract.
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octoprof
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« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2012, 12:24:04 AM »

Had I lost the appeal, I would have been given a one-year terminal contract.

That's what I was afraid of. So weird to give promotion and deny tenure! I'm so glad it worked out for you!
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proftowanda
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« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2012, 5:47:10 PM »

OP, I'm sorry.  I got caught in a perfect storm, too -- backlash about denial of a similar tenure case that cause national headlines, network coverage, etc., at my campus -- and I was denied both tenure and promotion, which are tied at my campus.  So I appealed, asked for a different senior prof to take my case into the room, and I won.  It was a horrendous few months in the interim, but it gives me empathy for you!

Thus, I ask:  Have you investigated procedures for appealing this decision?  Also, if any raise is tied to promotion and not to tenure, your campus could have a problem -- you are a minority, you are a woman? -- and especiallly if you can show that others with comparable promotion packets were promoted.  That's an important step in an appeal of your sort, I think.  Can you get access to their tenure packets?  But start with procedures to be sure that you don't wait too long, if there is a deadline.

Anyway:  I did stay, and decades later, I'm glad that I did.  Don't unnecessarily uproot your life, if you don't wish to do so, and if there are other routes to accomplish your goals at your current campus.  On the other hand, as I know from my previous career, sometimes we need a wake-up call to assess our situation and go.
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arpodah
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« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2012, 8:37:50 PM »

I'd like to know, if you don't mind sharing, the general reason why they gave tenure and not promotion.  I know that these two are separated by many, if not most, schools, but what causes the decoupling?  Are you a great teacher and require more research?  A great researcher but need to make more of a mark in teaching? Not enough leadership/committee positions?

The situations I am familiar with, when there is decoupling, are promotion without tenure, not the opposite.


   In my institution, a tenure-tracked professor typically applies for promotion and tenure simultaneously.  But the University policy stipulates that tenure is considered by the Tenure and Promotion Committee separately from and before promotion.  The T&P Committee reserves the right to grant tenure without granting promotion.  If tenure is denied, promotion will not even be considered.  I think this is an appropriate policy for a school like mine, a "comprehensive" institution with the main focus on undergraduate teaching (VERY  HEAVY LOADS often exceeding 18 hours of class contact hours of multiple class assignments for professors in my unit), such that some candidates who may have been tenured but not promoted need another three years or so to enhance their publication and grant-writing records before making a subsequent promotion-only bid.

   I envy those persons who have been able to manage their time and resources well enough to establish an effective balance of teaching and research.  After all these years, I've still not found that balance.  And I'm not sure that I ever will.
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oldfullprof
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« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2012, 9:18:57 PM »

Unfortunately, too, you're much more appealing on the market as an assistant professor.  Sorry this happened.  I had strange adventures along the way also.  Try to publish a bit more.  It's often the coin of the realm.
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