• October 31, 2014
October 31, 2014, 2:03:49 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with your Chronicle username and password
News: For all you tweeters, follow The Chronicle on Twitter.
 
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
Author Topic: being realistic about paper value  (Read 2970 times)
frogfactory
Totally Metal
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 10,600


« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2012, 4:00:41 AM »

I think all or most science journals include "date s ubmitted" as well as publication date.  If that's true in your field, that's an easy way to check the normal timeframe.
Logged


At the end of the day, sometimes you just have to masturbate in the bathroom.
msparticularity
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 18,502

Assistant Professor cum bricoleur


« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2012, 8:04:38 PM »

I think all or most science journals include "date s ubmitted" as well as publication date.  If that's true in your field, that's an easy way to check the normal timeframe.

I know this is normal in science, due to establishing primacy, but it's pretty much unheard of in a lot of other fields. Given the timeline noted by the OP, I'm guessing this is a humanities journal. <slight snark>

Logged

"Once admit that the sole verifiable or fruitful object of knowledge is the particular set of changes that generate the object of study...and no intelligible question can be asked about what, by assumption, lies outside." John Dewey

"Be particular." Jill Conner Browne
bwwm1
Senior member
****
Posts: 409


« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2012, 8:20:28 PM »

I think all or most science journals include "date s ubmitted" as well as publication date.  If that's true in your field, that's an easy way to check the normal timeframe.

I know this is normal in science, due to establishing primacy, but it's pretty much unheard of in a lot of other fields. Given the timeline noted by the OP, I'm guessing this is a humanities journal. <slight snark>



I've seen it in economic history journals.
Logged
jerseyjay
Senior member
****
Posts: 749


« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2012, 9:16:29 PM »

I think all or most science journals include "date s ubmitted" as well as publication date.  If that's true in your field, that's an easy way to check the normal timeframe.

I know this is normal in science, due to establishing primacy, but it's pretty much unheard of in a lot of other fields. Given the timeline noted by the OP, I'm guessing this is a humanities journal. <slight snark>



I've seen it in economic history journals.

I wish this were the norm in the history journals that I have published in. Some of the journals have taken as much as two years from submission to publication.

I would guess there are two reasons why this is not done. First, history is not exactly as cutting edge as science, so there is not such a big fear of being scooped or an article becoming obsolete while in press. Second, I think many journals would be ashamed by having the actual dates. Imagine--
Received, 20 April 2010
Accepted with revisions, 10 December 2010
Published, 10 December 2012.
Logged
sciencegrad
The youngest
Senior member
****
Posts: 984


« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2012, 9:44:07 PM »

Wow, I always thought humanities journals were just so picky that it would take two years of revisions to meet their standards. What are they doing during all that time from the final submission and the actual publication?
Logged

"Persons of good sense, I have since observed, seldom fall into [argument], except lawyers, university men, and men of all sorts that have been bred at Edinborough." -Benjamin Franklin
totoro
Friendly Neighborhood Troll and
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 4,962


« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2012, 9:49:56 PM »

I had an economics paper sitting in the in press section from 2010 to 2012. It was online but not assigned an issue or page numbers. Some people think this is to try to game impact factors. But it does seem to be beginning to disappear. Elsevier seem to be going to putting up "issues in progress" rather than a huge list of "in press" articles. Other journals are dropping page numbers altogether. Journal of Geophysical Research was one of the first I noticed when I published there back in 2002...
Logged
bwwm1
Senior member
****
Posts: 409


« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2012, 10:15:33 PM »

I also have a paper that's been in the forthcoming articles section for a year, and given how many others are in front of it, it'll be another year before it comes out.

I just had an article accepted and have been given July 2014 as publication date. Actually, that's an improvement, because they had originally told me 2015.
Logged
supersecret
Junior member
**
Posts: 79


« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2012, 10:16:51 PM »

Wow, I always thought humanities journals were just so picky that it would take two years of revisions to meet their standards. What are they doing during all that time from the final submission and the actual publication?

There is a pretty big journal in my field (humanities/cultural studies) that is currently so backlogged with articles that their acceptance letter says outright that it will take about two years from final acceptance, after revisions, to publication.  

I got them to speed it up a little in order to ensure that an article would come out well in advance of my book, which used material from the article in a revised format.

I guess a backlog like this just means that they are accepting too many articles?
Logged
frogfactory
Totally Metal
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 10,600


« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2012, 2:24:58 AM »

Wow, I always thought humanities journals were just so picky that it would take two years of revisions to meet their standards. What are they doing during all that time from the final submission and the actual publication?

There is a pretty big journal in my field (humanities/cultural studies) that is currently so backlogged with articles that their acceptance letter says outright that it will take about two years from final acceptance, after revisions, to publication.  

I got them to speed it up a little in order to ensure that an article would come out well in advance of my book, which used material from the article in a revised format.

I guess a backlog like this just means that they are accepting too many articles?

It means they either need to employ more staff or give their reviewers much larger kicks up the backside, surely.  I find it hard to believe a two year turnaround reflects a sustainable publishing model.  Surely even in the humanities a two year old study is a dated study?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 2:25:35 AM by frogfactory » Logged


At the end of the day, sometimes you just have to masturbate in the bathroom.
seniorscholar
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 7,506


« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2012, 9:44:20 AM »

The close friend who was formerly the editor of my sub-subfield's leading journal used to say "a good night's sleep is having a two-year backlog of publishable articles." NOT meaning that s/he deliberately held onto articles, or gave reviewers longer than 6 weeks to respond or delayed sending articles out, but that in a relatively narrow specialist topic, really good articles are sometimes thin on the ground and publication schedules (under contract with a university press that can assess penalties if there are not enough pages on the correct date) produce anxiety in a conscientious editor.
Logged
bwwm1
Senior member
****
Posts: 409


« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2012, 10:58:25 AM »

Surely even in the humanities a two year old study is a dated study?

No. In history, studies that are fifty years old can still be relevant. They evidently have flaws and lacunae, but they many times contain basic groundwork that will never be irrelevant.
Logged
watermarkup
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 2,037


« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2012, 10:15:13 PM »

And on some topics in the humanities, the most significant research dates from the 19th century. For one subtopic I briefly dealt with in my dissertation, the authoritative statement had been published in 1899, and no work on the topic since then has come close to surpassing it. The worst example I know of concerns one very popular late medieval text, where the only available edition was printed in the 17th century.

The bigger problem with long publication times in humanities journals is the havoc it wreaks on professional communication. An article in a recent journal might be a product of a research project that the author last worked on seriously several years ago.
Logged
quasihumanist
Senior member
****
Posts: 894


« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2012, 10:43:51 PM »

Backlogs:

I know of one mathematics journal that publicly announces a backlog of 5-6 years.  This is because of a combination of a editorial commitment to reasonable but not too high standards combined with a limited budget for printing.  They believe their editorial policy is important to encourage broader participation in the field and apparently believe this backlog might put pressure on someone to announce funding or start another similar journal to take the pressure off them.

Timeliness of research:

I'm working now on a paper that addresses a special case of a question that was asked 100 years ago, using ideas that were around 100 years ago.  We do rely on a couple of recent papers, but neither of them (or at least not the parts we use) requires anything less than 100 years old either.  (Okay - we are planning to generalize to a slightly less special case using ideas from the 1960s.)

To be fair to lots of mathematicians, interest in this kind of question (and especially interest in particular specific cases of this kind of question, rather than the question in an abstract generality) the paper addresses almost completely disappeared in the 1940s and didn't really reappear until the 1980s.

If we decided to do the historical research on the origins of the problem, we could easily have a median citation date in the 1960s, but that probably won't happen because we aren't historians and would have a hard time locating all the old literature or understanding it (the old notation would be more of a barrier than our atrocious though not nonexistent German), so we will either cite more modern sources (i.e. graduate-level textbooks) or just leave various facts uncited since they would be well-known to experts anyway.
Logged
frogfactory
Totally Metal
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 10,600


« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2012, 2:10:54 AM »

Backlogs:

I know of one mathematics journal that publicly announces a backlog of 5-6 years.  This is because of a combination of a editorial commitment to reasonable but not too high standards combined with a limited budget for printing.  They believe their editorial policy is important to encourage broader participation in the field and apparently believe this backlog might put pressure on someone to announce funding or start another similar journal to take the pressure off them.


Someone needs to start an OA journal in that field.  Assuming whoever funds maths gets behind publishing on that model, it's financially quite doable, and turnaround can be quite fast.  Online only models, too, obviate the problem of printing costs.
Logged


At the end of the day, sometimes you just have to masturbate in the bathroom.
quasihumanist
Senior member
****
Posts: 894


« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2012, 12:38:49 PM »

Backlogs:

I know of one mathematics journal that publicly announces a backlog of 5-6 years.  This is because of a combination of a editorial commitment to reasonable but not too high standards combined with a limited budget for printing.  They believe their editorial policy is important to encourage broader participation in the field and apparently believe this backlog might put pressure on someone to announce funding or start another similar journal to take the pressure off them.


Someone needs to start an OA journal in that field.  Assuming whoever funds maths gets behind publishing on that model, it's financially quite doable, and turnaround can be quite fast.  Online only models, too, obviate the problem of printing costs.

There is already an online OA journal in that field, with more stringent standards than this one.

That OA journal is already swamped and has trouble finding volunteers to help handle the growing administrative burden.  It doesn't have funding to hire an administrative assistant.  (In fact, it gets no funding beyond free web hosting.)

Anyone in mathematics who has funding is publishing in far stronger journals than the 5-6 year backlog one; there is frankly no interest in funding mathematics research at that level, just as there is not much interest in funding the vast majority of history research.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.9 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
  • 1255 Twenty-Third St., N.W.
  • Washington, D.C. 20037
subscribe today

Get the insight you need for success in academe.