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News: Talk about how to cope with chronic illness, disability, and other health issues in the academic workplace.
 
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Author Topic: Teachers versus Students: Issues from both sides  (Read 41706 times)
kron3007
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« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2011, 1:34:25 PM »


Oh, and the choices aren't university or janitor.  For example, plumbing is a lucrative field that requires some training, but not a college degree.  Other types of specialized training can be found in the military or via apprenticeships.  Only people who only know people who have college-education kinds of jobs would think that a college education is required for a middle class income.  Also, some janitors in specialized places make more money than I do as an academic.  Being a US citizen with a good work ethic, the right geographic location, and the ability to get a high level clearance has its advantages.

I think if you were to factor in the time you spent in school not earning, and more often than not accumulating debt, plumbers and many other tradespeople would come out ahead economically.  During this time the wise plumber was earning money, saving for retirement, and investing in realestate etc.  Some of them have also started their own company and now have a team of plumbers working for them. 

The statistics regarding college grads making more money during their life is a little erroneous as correlation is not the same as causation.  While the figures are true, it is by no means a controlled study and neglects the many many confounding factors (ie, wealthy families persue higher education more frequently, you have selected for the more ambitious and studious portion of society with better grades, etc.).  As such, while college grads tend to earn more in their life, it may not be a result of the education but rather the combined traits of people who decide to go in the first place.

Back to the point though, calling them clients or customers is pretty irrelevant as either way they are paying for a service.  I agree that they have no reason to complain if they dont utilize the resources available, but they are still within their rights to evaluate if they are getting what they paid for.   

 
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larryc
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« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2011, 1:50:10 PM »

Another way to look at the student as "customer purchasing an opportunity" is the health club analogy.

I prefer the massage parlor analogy. You have to be an active participant if you want a happy ending.
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polly_mer
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Have you worked on that project today?


« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2011, 2:01:29 PM »

Another way to look at the student as "customer purchasing an opportunity" is the health club analogy.

I prefer the massage parlor analogy. You have to be an active participant if you want a happy ending.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I'm pretty sure that in the massage parlor analogy, the client can get a happy ending while being generally passive in the process.  Now, an extraordinarily happy ending will require active participation by the client, but not the run-of-the-mill happy ending.
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cj405
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« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2011, 2:25:48 PM »

Another way to look at the student as "customer purchasing an opportunity" is the health club analogy.

Your health club membership gives you access to the equipment and people.  However, what you do with that access is up to you.  The rumors I hear are that lots of people purchase health club memberships and then never use them, much as many students refuse to do the reading, attend classes, or participate in activities that could lead to learning.

On the other hand, even very diligent users of the health club facilities may never be world-class athletes.  The raw material just isn't there.  However, everyone who diligently uses the heath club (or attends the university) for a reasonable period of time does show improvement over the entry state for exactly the reasons that one would use a health club (or enroll in higher education).

This is perfect. 
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"These things sneak up on him for no reason, these flashes of irrational happiness.  It's probably a vitamin deficiency." -Margaret Atwood, Oryx and Crake
oldfullprof
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« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2011, 2:50:39 PM »

And a university education, in contrast to a massage parlor, produces positive externalities.
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ptarmigan
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« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2011, 3:43:31 PM »

Another way to look at the student as "customer purchasing an opportunity" is the health club analogy.

I prefer the massage parlor analogy. You have to be an active participant if you want a happy ending.

I'm totally using this one in class.

(no, not really)
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polly_mer
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Have you worked on that project today?


« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2011, 8:14:23 PM »

Another way to look at the student as "customer purchasing an opportunity" is the health club analogy.

Your health club membership gives you access to the equipment and people.  However, what you do with that access is up to you.  The rumors I hear are that lots of people purchase health club memberships and then never use them, much as many students refuse to do the reading, attend classes, or participate in activities that could lead to learning.

On the other hand, even very diligent users of the health club facilities may never be world-class athletes.  The raw material just isn't there.  However, everyone who diligently uses the heath club (or attends the university) for a reasonable period of time does show improvement over the entry state for exactly the reasons that one would use a health club (or enroll in higher education).

This is perfect. 

I stole the basic idea from someone around here years ago.  It made sense to me so now I share it.
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bioteacher
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Confused and sad. Or happy. I'm not sure...


« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2011, 8:48:22 PM »

Another way to look at the student as "customer purchasing an opportunity" is the health club analogy.

Your health club membership gives you access to the equipment and people.  However, what you do with that access is up to you.  The rumors I hear are that lots of people purchase health club memberships and then never use them, much as many students refuse to do the reading, attend classes, or participate in activities that could lead to learning.


You mean my health club membership doesn't just buy me the body I want? That svelte, ripped gal in the advertisement isn't guaranteed for me as a result of my purchase? I have to show up and <gulp> sweat myself into a pile of quivering protoplasm on a regular basis, monitor my caloric intake, and pick my parents better so I get the thin genes?

That's not FAIR! I paid for my membership. I should get the body I want as a result. The ad showed me the body I'll get in exchange for my membership fee. I'm a paying customer, so you fitness coaches must not be doing your job very well since so many of your club members are overweight and out of shape.

I'm telling my lawyer on you!

 
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ptarmigan
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« Reply #38 on: November 19, 2011, 1:04:23 AM »

No, no - I didn't buy a gym membership so I could get all sweaty and exhausted, nor do I expect to come out with a hot bod. Come on, now. All I want is the certificate that says I have the hot bod.
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He's on my roster, but if I've taught him anything, it isn't math.
cj405
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« Reply #39 on: November 19, 2011, 1:47:10 AM »

Another way to look at the student as "customer purchasing an opportunity" is the health club analogy.

Your health club membership gives you access to the equipment and people.  However, what you do with that access is up to you.  The rumors I hear are that lots of people purchase health club memberships and then never use them, much as many students refuse to do the reading, attend classes, or participate in activities that could lead to learning.

On the other hand, even very diligent users of the health club facilities may never be world-class athletes.  The raw material just isn't there.  However, everyone who diligently uses the heath club (or attends the university) for a reasonable period of time does show improvement over the entry state for exactly the reasons that one would use a health club (or enroll in higher education).

This is perfect. 

I stole the basic idea from someone around here years ago.  It made sense to me so now I share it.

Well, thanks for sharing.  I may use this with my students in the near future. 
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"These things sneak up on him for no reason, these flashes of irrational happiness.  It's probably a vitamin deficiency." -Margaret Atwood, Oryx and Crake
betterslac
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« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2011, 5:20:27 AM »

Tell us the truth:  You're not really a student/customer at all, are you?  You're writing an article.  C'mon, admit it.

My money is on an Ed.D dissertation.

Was the sparkling prose the clue?

Quote
Is other students having the same issues - workload of the student, present day mindset of students, am I being treated as a valued customer in the on-line environment.
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