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Author Topic: CC jobseekers -- thread?  (Read 269081 times)
amethyst
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« Reply #390 on: April 06, 2012, 10:47:48 PM »

Dear zuzu_

I’ve been teaching at a community college for the last four years, so I am hardly “out of touch” with what they are like. I have a Chronicle subscription and I have read Rob Jenkins’ articles.  I am also very familiar with the differences between CVs and résumés, having worked in the corporate and non-profit worlds for over twenty years before starting my academic career. I am not an idiot and I find your response to be incredibly condescending, not to mention unhelpful. A CV is “snobby”? Seriously?  I got my current job using a CV.

*You* are incorrect when you say that a CV lists “everything you have done.” Like a good résumé, a good CV is targeted to the job for which the candidate is applying; it has a specific structure and categories for organizing information. I suggest you read Joshua Eyler’s article “The Rhetoric of the CV,” which just appeared in the Chronicle this week.

Quote
I also don't know that a resume is supposed to contain "more detailed descriptions of jobs." For CC application, your resume should highlight your teachings skills and experience, and hence those areas should be detailed, but this is not the same as a detailed job description, since I would not recommend describing anything else (other than your teaching) in great detail.

Huh? This comment makes no sense at all. My current job is teaching at a community college, so if I were to create a résumé for the CC market, my description would of course give details about my “teaching skills and experience.” How would that differ from a “detailed job description?”
   
You seem to not understand my question at all, which had to do with people’s experiences regarding the interchangeability of CVs and résumés. I want to know if most HR departments/schools consider them interchangeable. My current employer does; I recently ran across one that may not.

Dear Histchick: Thanks for your response, which was very helpful and indicated an clear understanding of my question. I, too, have wondered the same thing about the online applications.
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galactic_hedgehog
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« Reply #391 on: April 06, 2012, 11:03:55 PM »

It doesn't matter what HR thinks about it, they're not the ones doing the hiring.  That's the SC's and dean's job.

And speaking as a CC SC member, I find a CV very helpful.
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zuzu_
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« Reply #392 on: April 07, 2012, 12:10:06 AM »

Dear zuzu_

I’ve been teaching at a community college for the last four years, so I am hardly “out of touch” with what they are like. I have a Chronicle subscription and I have read Rob Jenkins’ articles.  I am also very familiar with the differences between CVs and résumés, having worked in the corporate and non-profit worlds for over twenty years before starting my academic career. I am not an idiot and I find your response to be incredibly condescending, not to mention unhelpful. A CV is “snobby”? Seriously?  I got my current job using a CV.

*You* are incorrect when you say that a CV lists “everything you have done.” Like a good résumé, a good CV is targeted to the job for which the candidate is applying; it has a specific structure and categories for organizing information. I suggest you read Joshua Eyler’s article “The Rhetoric of the CV,” which just appeared in the Chronicle this week.

Quote
I also don't know that a resume is supposed to contain "more detailed descriptions of jobs." For CC application, your resume should highlight your teachings skills and experience, and hence those areas should be detailed, but this is not the same as a detailed job description, since I would not recommend describing anything else (other than your teaching) in great detail.

Huh? This comment makes no sense at all. My current job is teaching at a community college, so if I were to create a résumé for the CC market, my description would of course give details about my “teaching skills and experience.” How would that differ from a “detailed job description?”
   
You seem to not understand my question at all, which had to do with people’s experiences regarding the interchangeability of CVs and résumés. I want to know if most HR departments/schools consider them interchangeable. My current employer does; I recently ran across one that may not.

Dear Histchick: Thanks for your response, which was very helpful and indicated an clear understanding of my question. I, too, have wondered the same thing about the online applications.

Your tone indicates that I have offended you. That was not my intent, and in rereading my post, I apologize that my directness may have seemed snarky.

I base my comments only on my experience serving on five CC SCs, and on five years of intensely perusing the fora. (I really seem to remember reading an excellent article on this topic a few years back, but alas I cannot seem to locate it now. Perhaps someone else can find it.)

Of course I oversimplified the difference between a resume and a CV, and that recent article you mention does a good job of making the more complex points about a CV should be tailored.

To answer your question, the SCs at my CC absolutely do not use these terms interchangibily. Yes, I am in a bit of hick town, so that may influence how much stock you want to put in my experience. Unlike the SCs at galactic_hedgehog's CC, SCs on my campus will frequently criticize and/or toss CVs that include long lists of publications, conferences, etc.

Good luck with your search.
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egilson
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« Reply #393 on: April 08, 2012, 10:32:14 AM »

Now you have all got me worried.

When a job asks for a C.V., I send one that details my education, teaching experience, presentations, awards received, service work, and so on. If a job asks for a resume, I send a chronological resume of my (decades-long and primarily unrelated) work experience, which includes the teaching and which in its Education section list a few selected awards and representative presentations in addition to school names, degrees, and dates. Does that sound about right? I figure that people who want a C.V. ask for one and don't care that I did corporate training and curriculum design a decade and a half ago, but people who want a resume might be interested in that.
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zuzu_
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« Reply #394 on: April 08, 2012, 11:29:37 AM »

I found the article! Here it is:

From C.V. to Résumé By Margaret Newhouse: http://chronicle.com/article/From-CV-to-R-sum-/45668/

It is old (1999), and it does not make reference to CCs in particular.


This 2009 column also tackles the question: http://chronicle.com/article/Answering-the-Mail/44838/

Here is one specific to science disciplines, but it goes in detail a lot more about the CV as opposed to the resume: http://chronicle.com/article/The-Basics-of-Science-CVs/46275/
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amethyst
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« Reply #395 on: April 08, 2012, 3:41:25 PM »

Dear Zuzu_:

I did feel that you were making unwarranted assumptions about my background. Just because I am a newbie to the forum does not mean that I am a newbie to the CC world—far from it. I appreciate that you were able see how your response might come across as a put-down.

Quote
To answer your question, the SCs at my CC absolutely do not use these terms interchangibily. Yes, I am in a bit of hick town, so that may influence how much stock you want to put in my experience. Unlike the SCs at galactic_hedgehog's CC, SCs on my campus will frequently criticize and/or toss CVs that include long lists of publications, conferences, etc.

From what you say here, it seems the problem isn’t the CV per se, but what the CV indicates about the candidate’s academic interests and focus. If, instead of CVs, those candidates had submitted résumés listing lots of research conferences and publications, would they have faired any better with your SCs?
   
Thanks for your comment, Galactic Hedgehog. One thing I find myself wondering now is whether or not the email I received came from some low-level HR person who doesn’t totally know what a CV is anyway. It's not like the SC chair gets to screen the hundreds of emails from prospective applicants.

Namaste.

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zuzu_
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« Reply #396 on: April 08, 2012, 5:07:25 PM »

Dear Zuzu_:

I did feel that you were making unwarranted assumptions about my background. Just because I am a newbie to the forum does not mean that I am a newbie to the CC world—far from it. I appreciate that you were able see how your response might come across as a put-down.



Yep, I did make unwarranted assumptions. My bad, and I apologize.



Quote
To answer your question, the SCs at my CC absolutely do not use these terms interchangibily. Yes, I am in a bit of hick town, so that may influence how much stock you want to put in my experience. Unlike the SCs at galactic_hedgehog's CC, SCs on my campus will frequently criticize and/or toss CVs that include long lists of publications, conferences, etc.

From what you say here, it seems the problem isn't the CV per se, but what the CV indicates aboutcandidate'sate’s academic interests and focus. If, instead of CVs, those candidates had submitted résumés listing lots of research conferences and publications, would they have faired any better with your SCs?
   

[/quote]

Yes, I suppose that is true, although excess length (of any sort) is still a problem that generally shows up on  CVs. Since theoretically a resume is only limited to two pages max, it is harder to include long lists, period. The CVs I'm thinking about that got tossed were often 10+ pages, and none of them were teaching focused. They were often accompanied by cover letters that did not focus on teaching.


Honestly, with your extensive CC experience, you probably don't need to worry about these problems. The SCs obviously will see that you know what you're getting yourself into, and they likely will not make unwarranted assumptions about you being clueless about CCs do.

Actually, when I was last on the market, five years ago, (before I served on SCs or read the fora) I actually used a CV/resume hybrid. It was focused like a resume, but it mimicked the look, style, and rhetoric of a CV. It was two pages long. I got plenty of interviews. I figured people who wanted a resume would see it as a resume, and people like g_h would see it as a CV.



Welcome to the fora, amethyst.
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galactic_hedgehog
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« Reply #397 on: April 08, 2012, 11:13:06 PM »

It's not like the SC chair gets to screen the hundreds of emails from prospective applicants.

It depends.  I am sure there are some places where HR does a initial screening for minimum qualifications (and requested materials) but there are others where it's all left to the SC.  Not only do we get to separate the wheat from the chaff, but also the chaff from the astroturf.
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amethyst
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« Reply #398 on: April 09, 2012, 5:35:31 PM »

Quote
Topic Summary
Posted on: Yesterday at 10:13:06 PMPosted by: galactic_hedgehog 
Insert Quote
Quote from: amethyst on Yesterday at 02:41:25 PM
It's not like the SC chair gets to screen the hundreds of emails from prospective applicants.


It depends.  I am sure there are some places where HR does a initial screening for minimum qualifications (and requested materials) but there are others where it's all left to the SC.  Not only do we get to separate the wheat from the chaff, but also the chaff from the astroturf.
 

Hi Galactic Hedgehog:

I think my response may have been a little unclear. I am not talking about the actual applications and supporting materials; I am talking about routine email inquiries that prospective candidates sometimes make before submitting an application. You know, stuff like “Should I send my reference letters now?” or “Do you need a separate teaching statement?” Most job descriptions are pretty clear about what the SC wants, but I have run across some that are vague about the documents required with the application.

In my experience, these types of questions are almost always answered by someone in HR.
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galactic_hedgehog
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« Reply #399 on: April 10, 2012, 12:57:08 AM »

Quote
Topic Summary
Posted on: Yesterday at 10:13:06 PMPosted by: galactic_hedgehog 
Insert Quote
Quote from: amethyst on Yesterday at 02:41:25 PM
It's not like the SC chair gets to screen the hundreds of emails from prospective applicants.


It depends.  I am sure there are some places where HR does a initial screening for minimum qualifications (and requested materials) but there are others where it's all left to the SC.  Not only do we get to separate the wheat from the chaff, but also the chaff from the astroturf.
 

Hi Galactic Hedgehog:

I think my response may have been a little unclear. I am not talking about the actual applications and supporting materials; I am talking about routine email inquiries that prospective candidates sometimes make before submitting an application. You know, stuff like “Should I send my reference letters now?” or “Do you need a separate teaching statement?” Most job descriptions are pretty clear about what the SC wants, but I have run across some that are vague about the documents required with the application.

In my experience, these types of questions are almost always answered by someone in HR.

Ah.  Yes, that's true, especially if only contact info is given for HR and the the actually SC.
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truuly
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« Reply #400 on: April 23, 2012, 11:23:14 AM »

I just wanted to pop in and thank all the contributors to this thread.  I received a job offer from a community college and the discussion here really helped me with my application materials and with my interviews.  Thanks for sharing your collective wisdom!
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zuzu_
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« Reply #401 on: April 23, 2012, 3:14:15 PM »

I just wanted to pop in and thank all the contributors to this thread.  I received a job offer from a community college and the discussion here really helped me with my application materials and with my interviews.  Thanks for sharing your collective wisdom!

Congrats! Yay!
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dr_alcott
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« Reply #402 on: April 23, 2012, 8:54:12 PM »

I just wanted to pop in and thank all the contributors to this thread.  I received a job offer from a community college and the discussion here really helped me with my application materials and with my interviews.  Thanks for sharing your collective wisdom!

Congrats! Yay!

Congrats from me too, Truuly, and welcome to our ranks!
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seniorscholar
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« Reply #403 on: April 29, 2012, 9:59:02 AM »

Note: local cc ads for "adjunct pool" have been in the city's Sunday paper classified section for the last two weeks -- and I believe that the Sunday paper and their own websites are the only places these schools advertise.

So, even if no such ads are around your vicinity, this suggests that many places are, with the last week of the semester looming, figuring out how many people they're likely to need for adjunct (and even some FT) positions come August.

Or: this is a very good time to send your query letter and c.v. to all the schools within reach if you're hoping to find work for fall 2012.
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histchick
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« Reply #404 on: April 29, 2012, 10:35:22 AM »

Note: local cc ads for "adjunct pool" have been in the city's Sunday paper classified section for the last two weeks -- and I believe that the Sunday paper and their own websites are the only places these schools advertise.


I know of several institutions who post ads for their adjunct pools (online and F2F) on higheredjobs.com as well. 

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