• October 31, 2014
October 31, 2014, 11:50:44 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with your Chronicle username and password
News: For all you tweeters, follow The Chronicle on Twitter.
 
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 10 11
  Print  
Author Topic: Academically Adrift  (Read 170718 times)
oldfullprof
Ridiculous
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 11,359

Representation is not reproduction!


« Reply #105 on: February 01, 2011, 11:46:56 AM »

Quote
As Martin Trow has observed, higher education has been transformed from a privilege into an assumed right--and, for a growing proportion of young adults, into an expected obligation. Although growing proportions of high school graduates are entering higher education many are not prepared for college-level work and many others have no clear plan for the future. From Academically Adrift, Arum and Roska, The University of Chicago Press, 2011, page 33.
That's a very expensive way for young adults to spin their wheels while hoping their efforts will result in a good paying job. Perhaps the solution is to downsize liberal arts programs.

OTOH, the solution might be to downsize your paragraphs. 
Logged

Taste o' the Sixties
cecelia_mg
New member
*
Posts: 29


« Reply #106 on: February 01, 2011, 11:49:03 AM »

Quote
Yeah, that makes sense.  Swell the under/unemployed masses with undereducated and bitter people. That will not be expensive in the long run at all.    And, while we're at it, let's just remove liberal arts from K-12 as well - no reason to get their hopes up since there's nothing practical to come out of studying, say...civics. 
sez ellaminnow

Quote
"For many years "middle class values" have been a topic of debate in American public life. Many academic intellectuals hold middle-class values in contempt." From The bell curve: intelligence and class structure in american life. Herrnstein and Murray, Free Press, 1994, page 263.
Quote


Civility! Moving beyond your obvious sarcasm, it might be possible to place you in a managerial position in one of our fine factories.
 

Logged
cecelia_mg
New member
*
Posts: 29


« Reply #107 on: February 01, 2011, 11:56:13 AM »

Oldassprof:
Quote
"the solution might be to downsize your paragraphs."

Beginning with yourself Oldassproff, I presume. You can start by deleting some of those 4000+ postings of yours.
Logged
changinggears
Senior member
****
Posts: 938


« Reply #108 on: February 01, 2011, 12:02:31 PM »

Oldassprof:
Quote
"the solution might be to downsize your paragraphs."

Beginning with yourself Oldassproff, I presume. You can start by deleting some of those 4000+ postings of yours.

<pulls up lawnchair and offers popcorn to any of those who wish to join>
Logged

Quote from conjugate:
I am impressed at the level of self-awareness you show in describing your posts as "digital diarrhea," however.
polly_mer
practice makes perfect
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 37,443

Have you worked on that project today?


« Reply #109 on: February 01, 2011, 12:26:17 PM »

Oldassprof:
Quote
"the solution might be to downsize your paragraphs."

Beginning with yourself Oldassproff, I presume. You can start by deleting some of those 4000+ postings of yours.

<pulls up lawnchair and offers popcorn to any of those who wish to join>

<takes handful of popcorn and pours on some caramel while seriously addressing>


I teach in the pre-K-12 education programs.  Many of those students will make close to $50K upon graduation.


Are you sure? I ask because I was under the impression that you lived in a pretty low cost of living area and I have lived in cities where this is not true. Nationally, the median for these jobs is in the $40's - starting tends to be in the $30's.

In some places, teachers do only start in the low $30's.  However, the specialities that many of my students have will start them with higher salaries, if they can find jobs in those specialities and are willing to move.  Other students will be paid more because they are working in the worst of the worst pits under special government programs where the pay is high in an attempt to get anyone to do it for a whole academic year instead of running away.

You are also correct that $50K seems high compared to national medians.  However, that $50K is an arbitrary number that Cecelia_mg pulled out of the air as an indication of not-being-an-indentured-servant.  Therefore, I feel equally justified in doing a cost-of-living-adjustment to indicate that many of our students who stay in the geographic area will be above the not-being-an-indentured-servant standard of living, despite technically not showing a paycheck that matched her arbitrary number. 

According to the US government, in 2008, the median salary for people aged 25-34 with a college degree was $46K.  Checking here, the average starting salary for teachers in my state and neighboring states is near the top with several of the neighboring states in the top ten in comfort zone (comparison of salary to standard of living costs).
Logged

I've joined a bizarre cult called JordanCanonicalForm's Witnesses.  I have to go from door to door asking people things like, "Good evening, sir!  Do you have a moment to chat about Linear Transformations?"
cecelia_mg
New member
*
Posts: 29


« Reply #110 on: February 01, 2011, 2:59:56 PM »

Polly_mer author of 21,753+ posts sez:
Quote
"You are also correct that $50K seems high compared to national medians.  However, that $50K is an arbitrary number that Cecelia_mg pulled out of the air as an indication of not-being-an-indentured-servant.  Therefore, I feel equally justified in doing a cost-of-living-adjustment to indicate that many of our students who stay in the geographic area will be above the not-being-an-indentured-servant standard of living, despite technically not showing a paycheck that matched her arbitrary number." 

You want to repeat the word "arbitrary" a number of times because you know it's not and are curious as to its' source.

You can discover how I arrived at the number of $50,000 as a starting salary by reading the August 2006 issue of The Quarterly Journal of Economics.  The article's title is, Pay, reference points, and police performance by Alexandre Mas.
Logged
nebo113
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 3,210


« Reply #111 on: February 01, 2011, 3:07:16 PM »

Adding a drink with umbrellas to the popcorn.  Who wants what?
Logged
polly_mer
practice makes perfect
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 37,443

Have you worked on that project today?


« Reply #112 on: February 01, 2011, 3:19:37 PM »

Polly_mer author of 21,753+ posts sez:
Quote
"You are also correct that $50K seems high compared to national medians.  However, that $50K is an arbitrary number that Cecelia_mg pulled out of the air as an indication of not-being-an-indentured-servant.  Therefore, I feel equally justified in doing a cost-of-living-adjustment to indicate that many of our students who stay in the geographic area will be above the not-being-an-indentured-servant standard of living, despite technically not showing a paycheck that matched her arbitrary number."  

You want to repeat the word "arbitrary" a number of times because you know it's not and are curious as to its' source.

You can discover how I arrived at the number of $50,000 as a starting salary by reading the August 2006 issue of The Quarterly Journal of Economics.  The article's title is, Pay, reference points, and police performance by Alexandre Mas.

You are citing police performance as relevant to the general discussion of education affecting life how?  What about something good like The US Census Bureau?  Three year median household income by state shows that 20 states have median household income at or below that $50K mark.  That's 20 out of fifty states.  Are all those people living in indentured servitude?  Hmm, I'm betting not since Michigan isn't known for its huge indentured servitude population nor is Kansas, Ohio, Indiana, or Florida.

Technically, I can't think of a single state in these United States where indentured servitude is possible since it's been illegal for quite a while (check that history book left over from college).  People are flat out poor and scraping to make ends (notice how I didn't mention West Virginia or New Mexico or Louisiana), but that's not the same as indentured servitude.  

Cite me a source for $50K being a threshold for avoiding indentured servitude that takes into account the diversity of the US and the fact that having little income is not the same as having a terrible life (hint: consumer culture with a marketplace based on money is not the only way that people live in these United States).

I like money.  I like to buy stuff and experiences with money.  However, a decent education should indicate that money is a tricksy thing so that putting a number on it to speak for everything and everyone is always going to be arbitrary.  Always.  You can make it seem less arbitrary by stating your assumptions, but that's an academic, intellectual endeavor that requires having and using the equivalent of a good college education.

So, support your argument instead of throwing out a journal article that there's no reason I would have read while claiming that my use of the word "arbitrary" in the absence of any evidence by you is in someway meaningful.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 3:21:49 PM by polly_mer » Logged

I've joined a bizarre cult called JordanCanonicalForm's Witnesses.  I have to go from door to door asking people things like, "Good evening, sir!  Do you have a moment to chat about Linear Transformations?"
oldfullprof
Ridiculous
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 11,359

Representation is not reproduction!


« Reply #113 on: February 01, 2011, 4:42:03 PM »

I like the expensive popcorn with caramel and almonds.  Don't ever buy the Boy Scout popcorn.
Logged

Taste o' the Sixties
ellaminnowphd
Curiously Strong
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 3,824


« Reply #114 on: February 01, 2011, 4:47:55 PM »

I'm a big fan of mixing Tony Cachere's Creole Seasoning on my popcorn.  Anybody wanna try some? 

I don't like trolls.  Please tell me when the scary part of the movie is over. 
Logged

nebo113
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 3,210


« Reply #115 on: February 01, 2011, 4:58:37 PM »

Wonder if I could make a bourbon seasoning for popcorn?
Logged
popcorn_pimp
Member
***
Posts: 108


« Reply #116 on: February 01, 2011, 5:43:25 PM »

Wonder if I could make a bourbon seasoning for popcorn?

You could mix it with the sugar while heating to make caramel popcorn!
Logged

cecelia_mg
New member
*
Posts: 29


« Reply #117 on: February 01, 2011, 5:56:15 PM »

This Polly_mere:
You can discover how I arrived at the number of $50,000 as a starting salary by reading the August 2006 issue of The Quarterly Journal of Economics.  The article's title is, Pay, reference points, and police performance by Alexandre Mas. Is my source.

The accessibility to that article is your concern, not mine. I'm not interested in engaging in any form of digital diarrhea with you.
Logged
fiona
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 14,072


« Reply #118 on: February 01, 2011, 5:59:22 PM »

Woo hoo. Well, I guess we have here a nasty poster, someone snowed in maybe? Maybe that's what "academically adrift" means, as a bad pun.

Gimme some popcorn, too.

The Fiona
Logged

The Fiona or Them FionŠ or Fiona the Sublime

Professor of Thread Killing, Fiork University
nebo113
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 3,210


« Reply #119 on: February 01, 2011, 6:10:32 PM »

Woo hoo. Well, I guess we have here a nasty poster, someone snowed in maybe? Maybe that's what "academically adrift" means, as a bad pun.

Gimme some popcorn, too.

The Fiona

Bourbon flavored, creole, caramel & almonds, or plain?  And to drink with that?
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8] 9 10 11
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.9 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
  • 1255 Twenty-Third St., N.W.
  • Washington, D.C. 20037
subscribe today

Get the insight you need for success in academe.