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Author Topic: too many negative posts about students  (Read 158791 times)
polly_mer
practice makes perfect
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Posts: 37,440

Have you worked on that project today?


« Reply #75 on: November 04, 2010, 3:49:53 PM »

"Only students who are able to effectively present their warm, if comotose, bodies in class on a somewhat regular basis will earn the privilege of watching me sh!t kittens."  

How's that?  

That seriously creeps me out because I have the visual of what that physical process would occur and I don't want to deal with anyone who would be encouraged or motivated by the possibility of getting to watch me (or Grasshopper or whomever) do that.

No, no, no. Sh!itting kittens is a warm, affirming experience. Everyone gathers around and holds hands as the little tykes come tumbling playfully out, and once the last furry furbaby emerges, there's cake.

Uh-huh.  You are starting to sound like the natural childbirth people.  That power of positive thinking trap already has you in its clutches.

Hee hee. I did actually think about using the word "placenta" in that post, but decided against it. 


Fact: I did natural childbirth once, by accident.  Never again.

Since this thread needs a good hijack, I will comment that I believe the women who do natural childbirth and find it a rewarding experience.  However, considering the feedback I got from the doula (a strong proponent of natural childbirth), the midwife (a strong proponent of natural childbirth), and the obstetrician with 40 years experience who observed me giving birth, natural childbirth is a nice idea for certain women under certain conditions, not the optimal situation for all women everywhere.  I love to bring up the Queen Victoria story.  When natural childbirth was the only option, she did it.  When anesthetic was an option, she took it.  Queen Victoria was not a brainwashed shrinking violet trying to hide from life.
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I've joined a bizarre cult called JordanCanonicalForm's Witnesses.  I have to go from door to door asking people things like, "Good evening, sir!  Do you have a moment to chat about Linear Transformations?"
bms2000
Senior member
****
Posts: 368


« Reply #76 on: November 04, 2010, 3:59:32 PM »

"Only students who are able to effectively present their warm, if comotose, bodies in class on a somewhat regular basis will earn the privilege of watching me sh!t kittens."  

How's that?  

That seriously creeps me out because I have the visual of what that physical process would occur and I don't want to deal with anyone who would be encouraged or motivated by the possibility of getting to watch me (or Grasshopper or whomever) do that.

No, no, no. Sh!itting kittens is a warm, affirming experience. Everyone gathers around and holds hands as the little tykes come tumbling playfully out, and once the last furry furbaby emerges, there's cake.

Uh-huh.  You are starting to sound like the natural childbirth people.  That power of positive thinking trap already has you in its clutches.

Hee hee. I did actually think about using the word "placenta" in that post, but decided against it. 


Fact: I did natural childbirth once, by accident.  Never again.

Since this thread needs a good hijack, I will comment that I believe the women who do natural childbirth and find it a rewarding experience.  However, considering the feedback I got from the doula (a strong proponent of natural childbirth), the midwife (a strong proponent of natural childbirth), and the obstetrician with 40 years experience who observed me giving birth, natural childbirth is a nice idea for certain women under certain conditions, not the optimal situation for all women everywhere.  I love to bring up the Queen Victoria story.  When natural childbirth was the only option, she did it.  When anesthetic was an option, she took it.  Queen Victoria was not a brainwashed shrinking violet trying to hide from life.

I am a strong proponent of natural childbirth - for anyone who wants it.
Me, I outsourced the whole birth experience. Yay adoption. I fully admit that I would prefer teaching a room full of students like the poster who started this thread rather than deal with the whole childbirth thing. But that is because I am a wuss.
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I am 95% confident that I hate teaching statistics.
tee_bee
I've really made it in academe, now that I am a
Distinguished Senior Member
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Posts: 4,556


« Reply #77 on: November 04, 2010, 4:00:00 PM »

Ok, when I read that "most" college students do not know how to write at the collegiate level, is that not presumptious, and prejudice,  considering there may be "some" college students who can write very well? If I were a student today, I might be offended by that blanket remark. Or even, telling other lurkers that some students do not belong in college when all they may need is guidance from educators!? I am not saying they need to be hand-held, but a little encouragement can go a long way.

I must admit that if I were a student in a class with a professor who has that kind of negative prejudice toward students, I would be apprehensive about wanting to be a participant in his/her class.


Look, now you totally pi$$ me off. Which may be your point. Clearly, you're a third-rate, or below, intellect. As far as we know, you've never taught, and have never graded piles of dreck--that some people may reduce themselves to call "writing"--generated by a room full of bored, iPod-numbed protoliterates who are in our classes.

"A little encouragement can go a long way?" Do you hail from Planet Hello Kitty? Do you read (are you capable of reading?) the discussions in the fora? Have you seen how people here agonize over how to help students, how to explain to them how their work habits and habits of the mind will lead to something between mediocrity and failure? Have you seen how that care, concern, and advice is often ignored? Reading really is fundamental, isn't it?

Given that you have, rounded to the nearest whole number, zero experience with teaching, you are awfully presumptuous. I can prove empirically that many, and sometimes most (this does not mean "all"; read the phrase again to see the subtle distinction) of my MA students can barely muster a 500 word paper without a cornucopia of writing errors, style lapses, and punctuation abuses that should have been cured in the fifth grade. Indeed, it appears that your education has not served you well in the ways of standard English composition. Yes, N=1 here, but for the love of God, don't go criticizing some of us who hope that, some day, our students might learn to communicate clearly when you, yourself, have not yet mastered fundamentals of the English language.

And you're g-ddam'd right you'd better be apprehensive about taking my classes. Because if you displayed the same level of self-righteousness, cluelessness, lack of preparedness, illogic, and third-rate writing skills in my class that you show here, you'd be on the express train to failure, and deservedly so. I have no particular prejudice against students--I'd be in the wrong racket if I did--but I do discriminate between students who can read, write, reason, and follow directions, and those who cannot or will not do any of these things. Yeah, I am kickin' it old school here. Because I sort of think college is a Big Deal, and a meritocracy, sorry.

People in academia work hard. They don't need trolls (or idiots or both) making ill-informed comments about what we do or don't do. We can hear enough of that from the fake-bake Rotarians who get elected to state legislatures and start waxing expert about higher ed, when they barely got through their bachelor's degree.

Yes, mystictechgal, I realize this person is a troll. But he/sh/it sounds enough like a state legislator to really annoy me. And now I am going to go sh!t some kittens, just out spite. These will grow up to be really mean cats, and I will not declaw them.
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polly_mer
practice makes perfect
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 37,440

Have you worked on that project today?


« Reply #78 on: November 04, 2010, 4:19:25 PM »

"Only students who are able to effectively present their warm, if comotose, bodies in class on a somewhat regular basis will earn the privilege of watching me sh!t kittens."  

How's that?  

That seriously creeps me out because I have the visual of what that physical process would occur and I don't want to deal with anyone who would be encouraged or motivated by the possibility of getting to watch me (or Grasshopper or whomever) do that.

No, no, no. Sh!itting kittens is a warm, affirming experience. Everyone gathers around and holds hands as the little tykes come tumbling playfully out, and once the last furry furbaby emerges, there's cake.

Uh-huh.  You are starting to sound like the natural childbirth people.  That power of positive thinking trap already has you in its clutches.

Hee hee. I did actually think about using the word "placenta" in that post, but decided against it. 


Fact: I did natural childbirth once, by accident.  Never again.

Since this thread needs a good hijack, I will comment that I believe the women who do natural childbirth and find it a rewarding experience.  However, considering the feedback I got from the doula (a strong proponent of natural childbirth), the midwife (a strong proponent of natural childbirth), and the obstetrician with 40 years experience who observed me giving birth, natural childbirth is a nice idea for certain women under certain conditions, not the optimal situation for all women everywhere.  I love to bring up the Queen Victoria story.  When natural childbirth was the only option, she did it.  When anesthetic was an option, she took it.  Queen Victoria was not a brainwashed shrinking violet trying to hide from life.

I am a strong proponent of natural childbirth - for anyone who wants it.
Me, I outsourced the whole birth experience. Yay adoption. I fully admit that I would prefer teaching a room full of students like the poster who started this thread rather than deal with the whole childbirth thing. But that is because I am a wuss.

I am not a wuss, but some days I look back on 23 hours of pitocen-induced labor to give birth to a ten-pound baby with a 14-inch circumference head (for reference, I'm about 115 pounds and 5 feet four inches tall) and think, "Yeah, that was bette,r even before the epidural kicked in, than tomorrow's class is going to be now that I'm halfway through grading these papers."
Logged

I've joined a bizarre cult called JordanCanonicalForm's Witnesses.  I have to go from door to door asking people things like, "Good evening, sir!  Do you have a moment to chat about Linear Transformations?"
concordancia
Distinguished Senior Member
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Posts: 13,889


« Reply #79 on: November 04, 2010, 4:21:41 PM »

I told a student today that he had half assed an assignment and I expected more from him. He promised to deliver in the future, we shall see.
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I like money.  I like to buy stuff and experiences with money.  
tee_bee
I've really made it in academe, now that I am a
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 4,556


« Reply #80 on: November 04, 2010, 4:24:15 PM »

My wife and I had a Bradley method "natural childbirth" coach, who, among other things, noted that

1. The Bradley method is really great because it's natural, and, in nature, mammals just up and give birth without any interference from the Western Medical Establishment. My wife's dad is a large animal veterinarian; draw your own conclusions.

2. Doctors are monsters who will use giant forceps to crush your baby's skull! And midwives are lame because they are under the thrall of evil doctors.

3. Ultrasound will make your baby all defective; here's a study from 1969 that shows that cells move around a lot under the presence of ultrasound!

and, the kicker.....

4. My kids (13 and 10) aren't immunized, because that causes autism. (The classes were at Bradley-hippie's house).

The books were great. But we couldn't get out of her house fast enough.

Now, the thread is fully hijacked!!
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grasshopper
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Posts: 15,424

Grade Despot


« Reply #81 on: November 04, 2010, 4:58:38 PM »

WOW! Grasshopper, you have single-handly dismissed every word I just wrote. Congratulations!

Well, yeah. On account of not agreeing with you on any point.
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larryc
Troll Proof
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Posts: 22,995

Be excellent to each other.


WWW
« Reply #82 on: November 04, 2010, 5:13:46 PM »

The OP is an exceptionally poor advocate of a good cause.

People, if you adopt a default attitude of hostility, sarcasm or condescension you are going to become a lousy teacher. No one plans to be a bitter academic and few are born that way, one falls into it through a series of steps, and denigrating your students is one step along the path. If you consistently refer to students as "snowflakes," if your greatest joy is denigrating their abilities to other professors, if their ignorance is something to make fun of instead of something to work on--you are a lousy teacher. And also a jackass.

I don't think that there are actually very many forumites who fit the above description, but all of us can fall into those habits of mind sometimes, and it is to be guarded against.
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Trolling for sex is not what this forum is all about.
bioteacher
chocolate loving
Distinguished Senior Member
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Posts: 7,410

Confused and sad. Or happy. I'm not sure...


« Reply #83 on: November 04, 2010, 5:21:08 PM »


Now, the thread is fully hijacked!!

Not quite. For one thing, you have not yet heard of my son's birth story. All 9 lbs 2 oz and 23 inches of him which caused third degree lacerations and a loss of 750 mls of blood due to a postpartum hemorrhage that got us an extra night in the hospital and nearly got me a transfusion. Yes, I had drugs. Good thing, too. It hurt plenty after the intrathecal fentanyl kicked in. But those drugs got me through 4 hrs of hard labor including a solid 2 hours of pushing and being told this contraction would surely be the one to deliver said giant.

Secondly, no one has mentioned zombies or Hitler yet.

NOW the thread is hijacked. Shall we connect the different themes together with an analysis of how a fear Hitler made zombies forgo all drugs during their somewhat unnatural births?


Autism rates have continued to climb even in populations who eliminated vaccination or the use of mercury in vaccines. Clearly, vaccination is an effective agent for preventing autism. Anyone with questions about the logic should see "professor" kempmaer for clarification.
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Lifesaving dream crusher and member of the Real vs. Zeal club.
tee_bee
I've really made it in academe, now that I am a
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 4,556


« Reply #84 on: November 04, 2010, 5:30:26 PM »

The OP is an exceptionally poor advocate of a good cause.

People, if you adopt a default attitude of hostility, sarcasm or condescension you are going to become a lousy teacher. No one plans to be a bitter academic and few are born that way, one falls into it through a series of steps, and denigrating your students is one step along the path. If you consistently refer to students as "snowflakes," if your greatest joy is denigrating their abilities to other professors, if their ignorance is something to make fun of instead of something to work on--you are a lousy teacher. And also a jackass.

I don't think that there are actually very many forumites who fit the above description, but all of us can fall into those habits of mind sometimes, and it is to be guarded against.

I do like teaching, or wouldn't be in this business for >20 years. And I find my good students inspiring. Even this semester's students are pretty good and a fun group.

I would never vent at my students the way I do here. For one thing, my customer satisfaction ratings would take a beating. But the fora are a good place to vent, provided that that one's vents are restricted to here, and, sometimes, to local watering holes. But I will vent at the OP, because I agree--the OP is a poor advocate. And I can say that my research productivity is close to zero this term, because I redesigned my courses to provide more effective and consistent feedback. That is, I hope they do. I know they are griping about my insistance that they know the course material, and how to write about it.

But the OP crossed the line long ago. My students are not deserving of ad hominem ridicule. But the OP richly deserves a rhetorical tarring and feathering.
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larryc
Troll Proof
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 22,995

Be excellent to each other.


WWW
« Reply #85 on: November 04, 2010, 5:40:31 PM »

"Venting" is what happens in the teacher's lounge as well. "We're just letting off some steam! It won't affect our public attitude towards our students."  Right.
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Trolling for sex is not what this forum is all about.
moodymoodie
Zeal vs. Real
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 2,585


« Reply #86 on: November 04, 2010, 5:41:48 PM »

"Only students who are able to effectively present their warm, if comotose, bodies in class on a somewhat regular basis will earn the privilege of watching me sh!t kittens."  

How's that?  

That seriously creeps me out because I have the visual of what that physical process would occur and I don't want to deal with anyone who would be encouraged or motivated by the possibility of getting to watch me (or Grasshopper or whomever) do that.

No, no, no. Sh!itting kittens is a warm, affirming experience. Everyone gathers around and holds hands as the little tykes come tumbling playfully out, and once the last furry furbaby emerges, there's cake.

Uh-huh.  You are starting to sound like the natural childbirth people.  That power of positive thinking trap already has you in its clutches.

Hee hee. I did actually think about using the word "placenta" in that post, but decided against it. 


Fact: I did natural childbirth once, by accident.  Never again.

Since this thread needs a good hijack, I will comment that I believe the women who do natural childbirth and find it a rewarding experience.  However, considering the feedback I got from the doula (a strong proponent of natural childbirth), the midwife (a strong proponent of natural childbirth), and the obstetrician with 40 years experience who observed me giving birth, natural childbirth is a nice idea for certain women under certain conditions, not the optimal situation for all women everywhere.  I love to bring up the Queen Victoria story.  When natural childbirth was the only option, she did it.  When anesthetic was an option, she took it.  Queen Victoria was not a brainwashed shrinking violet trying to hide from life.

I am a strong proponent of natural childbirth - for anyone who wants it.
Me, I outsourced the whole birth experience. Yay adoption. I fully admit that I would prefer teaching a room full of students like the poster who started this thread rather than deal with the whole childbirth thing. But that is because I am a wuss.

I agree with you both (and hey, another reason to love Queen Victoria). However, I am a wuss of the highest order, and no way was natural childbirth in my plans. Unfortunately LittlerMoodie was in a big rush and there was no anesthesiologist in the Moosebreath hospital at 2 a.m.  

Bioteacher, yikes! That is a big, long baby.


Mystictechgirl, the feeling is entirely mutual.
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kempmaer
New member
*
Posts: 41


« Reply #87 on: November 04, 2010, 5:46:47 PM »

Ok, I have read through all the posts and polly and tee bee have really helped me understand what professors have to go through day in and day out. I appreciate the thoughtful remarks. It helps me to believe that there are some educators out there looking out for the students and at the same time setting expectations for those students who attend a class.

The half ass remarks from other posters that I am some kind of incompetent fool are unnecessary and unhelpful.

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tee_bee
I've really made it in academe, now that I am a
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 4,556


« Reply #88 on: November 04, 2010, 5:54:27 PM »

"Venting" is what happens in the teacher's lounge as well. "We're just letting off some steam! It won't affect our public attitude towards our students."  Right.

I wouldn't say that. I would say that, while venting, we do need to check our attitudes to make sure that venting becomes a standard attitude. I used to worry about that, but I approach every semester with some degree of excitement, and I love redesigning my classes, developing assignments that students will enjoy doing while learning something, etc. I also start with the assumption that my students read the assignments, and can write papers. So I start on a positive note. But after grading a stack of papers, it's hard to be chipper all the time.
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mystictechgal
Happy in my "full, rich adulthood", and as a
Member-Moderator
Distinguished Senior Member
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Posts: 16,271

One step at a time


« Reply #89 on: November 04, 2010, 5:57:07 PM »

"Venting" is what happens in the teacher's lounge as well. "We're just letting off some steam! It won't affect our public attitude towards our students."  Right.

I wouldn't say that. I would say that, while venting, we do need to check our attitudes to make sure that venting becomes a standard attitude. I used to worry about that, but I approach every semester with some degree of excitement, and I love redesigning my classes, developing assignments that students will enjoy doing while learning something, etc. I also start with the assumption that my students read the assignments, and can write papers. So I start on a positive note. But after grading a stack of papers, it's hard to be chipper all the time.

I think you meant to include a "doesn't" in your post. <insert emoticon here>
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Quote
You must realize that a university cannot educate you. You must do that for yourself, although a college or university is the place where it is likely that you can study most efficiently.
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/chapman.htm

"Is all the same, only different" -- HL
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