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Author Topic: 2012 Presidential race  (Read 215688 times)
southerntransplant
A man on a porcupine fence and a
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No recess.


« Reply #2385 on: November 18, 2012, 8:15:52 PM »

As a matter of fact, I have been a sailor all my life, baleful, and I can assure you that the luxury tax affected the sales of boats to ordinary people, since it taxed all boats that cost more than $100,000 (ignoring for the moment the loss of all those ordinary peoples' jobs who build boats).  If you've lived around boating communities all your life as you say, you would know that $100,000 doesn't buy much boat.  Heck, I bet half the rednecks in the south own a pickup truck that costs more than $50,000, what makes you think a $100,000 boat is out of reach for people one level above ordinary redneck?  I was looking at a couple new sailboats shortly before I left the US a few years ago - 30' & 28' loa, $82,000 & $93,000 without any extras, and motorboats cost more than that by a factor of about three (not that I'd ever be caught dead owning one).  You'll find boats that size trailered in back yards all over suburbia.

<snark>
I thought he was wrong at first, then went into my backyard and ran smack into a nice 30' sailboat I forgot I had.
</snark>

When you say that you "bet", it means that you do not know. While I have seen some expensive trucks, I wouldn't guess that half of whomever you ungenerously classify as "rednecks" own $50,000 trucks. A $50,000 pickup is a lot of pickup - probably something in the F450 Dually class with a crew cab.

If you want to make your argument (and you appear to have a desperate need to do so, being as you haven't made too many appearances in the more academic parts of the fora in awhile), it's always better received without throwing labels around.

(We now await a response post in which the good Doctor states that he's been around trucks all his life, that a truck was a friend of his, and that I am no truck.)

$50,000 is a brand new Ford SVT Raptor (ask me how I know).  Not many people are driving trucks that high end.

I'm considering a used Toyota Tacoma from Carmax and live in the southern Appalachians.  Does that make me a poor redneck or a poor hillbilly...or a poor redbilly?

So long as you can hitch up your boat trailer to the bumper, you're good...
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"...And on the other side of this wall is a whole 'nother studio that you'll never get to see...because, you know, fvck you guys."

Steve Albini, showing Dave Grohl and the Foo Fighters around his studio
prytania3
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Posts: 44,063

Prytania, the Foracle


« Reply #2386 on: November 18, 2012, 8:22:18 PM »

As a matter of fact, I have been a sailor all my life, baleful, and I can assure you that the luxury tax affected the sales of boats to ordinary people, since it taxed all boats that cost more than $100,000 (ignoring for the moment the loss of all those ordinary peoples' jobs who build boats).  If you've lived around boating communities all your life as you say, you would know that $100,000 doesn't buy much boat.  Heck, I bet half the rednecks in the south own a pickup truck that costs more than $50,000, what makes you think a $100,000 boat is out of reach for people one level above ordinary redneck?  I was looking at a couple new sailboats shortly before I left the US a few years ago - 30' & 28' loa, $82,000 & $93,000 without any extras, and motorboats cost more than that by a factor of about three (not that I'd ever be caught dead owning one).  You'll find boats that size trailered in back yards all over suburbia.

<snark>
I thought he was wrong at first, then went into my backyard and ran smack into a nice 30' sailboat I forgot I had.
</snark>

When you say that you "bet", it means that you do not know. While I have seen some expensive trucks, I wouldn't guess that half of whomever you ungenerously classify as "rednecks" own $50,000 trucks. A $50,000 pickup is a lot of pickup - probably something in the F450 Dually class with a crew cab.

If you want to make your argument (and you appear to have a desperate need to do so, being as you haven't made too many appearances in the more academic parts of the fora in awhile), it's always better received without throwing labels around.

(We now await a response post in which the good Doctor states that he's been around trucks all his life, that a truck was a friend of his, and that I am no truck.)

$50,000 is a brand new Ford SVT Raptor (ask me how I know).  Not many people are driving trucks that high end.

I'm considering a used Toyota Tacoma from Carmax and live in the southern Appalachians.  Does that make me a poor redneck or a poor hillbilly...or a poor redbilly?

That makes you a normal redneck. We rednecks love Tacomas.

As for yachts--technically most sailboats are considered yachts--even if they are twenty feet, which is not a big sailboat.

Most people think of boating sizes as the following:

0-50 ft = Boat
51-199 ft = Yacht
200-999 = Ship
1000+ = Island

A gas powered yacht of 51' feet generally takes two motors and costs a fortune to run. The slips aren't as expensive as you'd think.
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galactic_hedgehog
Procrastinating, Python-quoting, Blue Blazer-drinking, chocolate-chip cookie-eating, Pastafarian, Not So
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Mind Ninja


WWW
« Reply #2387 on: November 18, 2012, 8:48:07 PM »

  Oh, sorry, he would have to raise the cost of his pizzas by $2 apiece, which is actually more than 10 times the actual cost of healthcare for his workers.
What makes you so certain that people would buy his pizzas at $2 more?

If he could make more revenue by raising his prices, he already would have.

He doesn't raise his prices because then he wouldn't be undercutting his competition, which, if forced to compete with on a "which is a better pizza" basis, he would lose easily.
You say "undercutting the competition" as though offering goods more cheaply than competitors is a bad thing.

Being able to choose between the "better and more expensive" vs. the "cheaper" benefits the consumer.

I believe, however, that mouseman's point was that the $2/pizza is far more than what would be necessary to cover the cost of health insurance. 

I believe the cost is something like 14 a pizza.  Hell, round it up to a quarter and that's a profit.

Re: "offering goods more cheaply than competitors is a bad thing."  Yes, it can be, if to do so means you pay your employees less and don't give them benefits; if it means driving your competition out of business, thus harming the local economy; if it means offering a crap product.
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mad_doctor
1337
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« Reply #2388 on: November 19, 2012, 12:06:11 AM »

Well, color me optimistic for thinking a compromise between the left and business/ entrepreneurs might be possible.  What I'm hearing is the anti-business/ anti-entrepreneur demonizing, persecutions, and hate will continue, and I should be a bit more cynical about the prospects for my countrymen.  Some sort of detente going forward would inspire a little confidence, and release some of the capital that will be desperately needed to fund the entitlement state in years to come.  The wave of layoffs and cutback in hours worked that happened last week is not an illusion, though - that is really happening, and it's only just beginning.  This is also fine by me, since elections do have consequences...
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southerntransplant
A man on a porcupine fence and a
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Posts: 11,105

No recess.


« Reply #2389 on: November 19, 2012, 12:29:58 AM »

Well, color me optimistic for thinking a compromise between the left and business/ entrepreneurs might be possible.  What I'm hearing is the anti-business/ anti-entrepreneur demonizing, persecutions, and hate will continue, and I should be a bit more cynical about the prospects for my countrymen.  Some sort of detente going forward would inspire a little confidence, and release some of the capital that will be desperately needed to fund the entitlement state in years to come.  The wave of layoffs and cutback in hours worked that happened last week is not an illusion, though - that is really happening, and it's only just beginning.  This is also fine by me, since elections do have consequences...

Your posts have sought little in the way of detente, so the "forgive them for they know not what they do" bit is disingenuous.

For the record, I'm not extremely liberal nor anti-business. I don't believe in the goodness of small business as a default position. I've lived in really small towns where local business played havoc with the customers' goodwill until a big box retailer came to town and forced the local shops to find a niche market, improve their respect for the customer by offering personalized service, or close.

On the other hand, I don't see how GE paying zero taxes helps me, who pays a much greater number than zero in total percentage of income in tax. Moreover, I don't see how corporations who outsource all their labor are helping the US worker. I don't understand that at all.

Maybe you would consider this post a wholesale demonization of the entrepreneur/businessman. That would figure.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 12:33:44 AM by southerntransplant » Logged

"...And on the other side of this wall is a whole 'nother studio that you'll never get to see...because, you know, fvck you guys."

Steve Albini, showing Dave Grohl and the Foo Fighters around his studio
spinnaker
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Posts: 1,902


« Reply #2390 on: November 19, 2012, 1:20:48 AM »

Well, color me optimistic for thinking a compromise between the left and business/ entrepreneurs might be possible.  What I'm hearing is the anti-business/ anti-entrepreneur demonizing, persecutions, and hate will continue, and I should be a bit more cynical about the prospects for my countrymen.  Some sort of detente going forward would inspire a little confidence, and release some of the capital that will be desperately needed to fund the entitlement state in years to come.  The wave of layoffs and cutback in hours worked that happened last week is not an illusion, though - that is really happening, and it's only just beginning.  This is also fine by me, since elections do have consequences...

It should be fine with Mitt Romney too. He loves layoffs.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 1:21:50 AM by spinnaker » Logged

"I never agree with Spinnaker, but..."
daniel_von_flanagan
<redacted>
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Works all day. Posts all night. Needs sleep.


« Reply #2391 on: November 19, 2012, 7:55:15 AM »

Well, color me optimistic for thinking a compromise between the left and business/ entrepreneurs might be possible. 
I don't know what your background is, but I grew up in a small-business family.  Much of the rhetoric on the extreme right in the name of entrepreneurship is not small-business/entrepreneur-friendly, it is at best multinational-friendly. - DvF
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qrypt
Qryptacular & not really a Member-Moderator
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Posts: 6,322

I just LOVE that VOICE. It's so NICE


« Reply #2392 on: November 19, 2012, 8:15:47 AM »

Well, color me optimistic for thinking a compromise between the left and business/ entrepreneurs might be possible. 
I don't know what your background is, but I grew up in a small-business family.  Much of the rhetoric on the extreme right in the name of entrepreneurship is not small-business/entrepreneur-friendly, it is at best multinational-friendly. - DvF


...which is unsurprising, given the substantial funding those multi-nationals give to their think-tanks to propagate that rhetoric. 
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mythbuster
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Posts: 1,433


« Reply #2393 on: November 19, 2012, 9:49:27 AM »

Well, my neighbor three doors down has decided that things are so bad he needs to fly his American flag upside down. We first noticed it on Fiday, and it has been this way all weekend. Given that they are a retired Navy family, I'm tempted to go ask where the gang of pirates are that took over his house! In reality I am deeply offended by this- as military, he KNOWS what doing that really means.  I will report back on how long he is allowed to do this.  I doubt the HOA will look kindly on this, considering political signs are not allowed on our lawns.
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quantmeister
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Posts: 397


« Reply #2394 on: November 19, 2012, 10:29:41 AM »

Re: "offering goods more cheaply than competitors is a bad thing."  Yes, it can be ... if it means driving your competition out of business, thus harming the local economy.

Wow, that's a new one on me. So now, when weighing whether or not to pursue some particular course of action, in addition to workers, suppliers, customers, the environment, etc., etc., business owners/managers need to assess the effects on competitors. And if enough competitors are going to be sufficiently injured, it'd probably be best to pass up an opportunity to satisfy (more of) society's material wants with less (the same) amount of resource inputs. Damn, business has gotten complicated.
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amlithist
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« Reply #2395 on: November 19, 2012, 12:07:42 PM »

This one is very, very late, and it may well have already been mentioned here, but even so, it's worth a second chuckle:  W voted for Obama.
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tinyzombie
She of the Badass Abs, and a
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elevate from this point on - chuck d


« Reply #2396 on: November 19, 2012, 12:14:11 PM »

This one is very, very late, and it may well have already been mentioned here, but even so, it's worth a second chuckle:  W voted for Obama.

That's the kind of satire that reads like truth.
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jackit_n_tyy
Post-apoptosis
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« Reply #2397 on: November 19, 2012, 2:36:38 PM »

This one is very, very late, and it may well have already been mentioned here, but even so, it's worth a second chuckle:  W voted for Obama.

Too. Damn. Funny.
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dr_alcott
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Posts: 10,320


« Reply #2398 on: November 19, 2012, 2:55:25 PM »

This one is very, very late, and it may well have already been mentioned here, but even so, it's worth a second chuckle:  W voted for Obama.

That's the kind of satire that reads like truth.

No kidding. One of my Facebook friends posted this article about Santorum, and was absolutely outraged. He had to be told that it was satire. The Currant is smart that way.
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spinnaker
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« Reply #2399 on: November 19, 2012, 3:17:54 PM »


Finally, the Republicans can't have it both ways.  Either the "job creators" like Mitt Romney and his financial supporters are "good Americans" and "patriots" want to invest in this country, or they're a$$holes who don't give a sh!t about anything but making money who will bugger off to China if they're not treated well.  If they want to invest in the USA, they should be willing to make a couple of million dollars less, so that their American workforce can afford healthcare.  Just like that sh!thole CEO of Papa John's, John Schnatter, who can afford to give away 2,000,000 pizzas to NFL fans, but claims that Obamacare would force him to lay off workers.  Oh, sorry, he would have to raise the cost of his pizzas by $2 apiece, which is actually more than 10 times the actual cost of healthcare for his workers.

Or he could convert his employees to 28 hours per week positions and then declare that people who have sought part time work are getting benefits and sustenance through their spouses.
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