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Author Topic: How many campus visits before you begin to suspect "it's not you, it's me"  (Read 17592 times)
federale
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« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2012, 3:51:46 PM »

Interesting about the rockstar pros and cons.

I guess I was wondering about the distinctions between, say, a Meryl Streep (highly nominated, multi-Oscar winner) and Glenn Close (highly nominated, never Oscar winner). Clearly both are good, but something is different.
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polly_mer
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« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2012, 4:06:00 PM »

I guess I was wondering about the distinctions between, say, a Meryl Streep (highly nominated, multi-Oscar winner) and Glenn Close (highly nominated, never Oscar winner). Clearly both are good, but something is different.

But would you call Glenn Close a loser?  In a factual sense of the word, she has lost all the Oscars competitions.  However, she works a lot.  I can think of times that I would cast her over Meryl Streep because they play different parts, despite having similar appearances.  I can absolutely see Glenn Close winning a specific part over Meryl Streep, much as some people are well qualified and will find a place if they keep trying.

Sometimes, people lose because they shoot themselves in the foot.  Other times, people are great, doing all the right things, and haven't yet taken number one in a particular type of contest because of some quirk of fate in the handful of contests.  If someone is regularly interviewing and no one says, "Damn it, you shot yourself in the foot", then I'd subscribe to the quirk hypothesis. 

I would change my mind after 50 interviews and go actively looking for problems, but I can see 10 interviews spread over two years being unlucky.
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federale
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« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2012, 4:27:44 PM »

Well, technically, yes, Glenn Close is a loser in the example given. Close but no cigar. Sure, she is a great actor, but not an Oscar winner yet. The Close vs. Streep edge is what the OP may be looking for.

Interestingly, I just read that Glenn Close is near the record for nominations without winning (six). So, it is historically unprecedented to be nominated seven times, but come up empty handed. Not sure how that translates....

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oldfullprof
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« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2012, 4:55:19 PM »

Tilda Swinton is hott.  Glen Close and Meryl Streep are not.  Diane Keaton is really not hott, even when she was younger.
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mleok
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« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2012, 4:56:33 PM »

I think it just goes to show that in this game, it's not just about how good you are, it's a question of how good you are relative to your competition.
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polly_mer
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« Reply #50 on: March 06, 2012, 5:57:48 PM »

Well, technically, yes, Glenn Close is a loser in the example given. Close but no cigar. Sure, she is a great actor, but not an Oscar winner yet. The Close vs. Streep edge is what the OP may be looking for.

Interestingly, I just read that Glenn Close is near the record for nominations without winning (six). So, it is historically unprecedented to be nominated seven times, but come up empty handed. Not sure how that translates....

Let's look at some lists, shall we?  http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-actors-to-never-win-an-oscar.php

Peter O'Toole, 8 nominations
Cary Grant, only 2 nominations and that just ain't right.
 
Both of them are/were fabulous actors and at least for O'Toole, looking at the winners for the year, I can't say that the judges of the Oscars were wrong in a head-to-head comparison.
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voxprincipalis
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« Reply #51 on: March 06, 2012, 6:49:56 PM »

I guess I was wondering about the distinctions between, say, a Meryl Streep (highly nominated, multi-Oscar winner) and Glenn Close (highly nominated, never Oscar winner). Clearly both are good, but something is different.

But would you call Glenn Close a loser?  In a factual sense of the word, she has lost all the Oscars competitions.  However, she works a lot.  I can think of times that I would cast her over Meryl Streep because they play different parts, despite having similar appearances.

And there is the kind of Oscar to take into consideration. Which is trump: a Best Actor nominee or a Best Supporting Actor winner? Heck, sometimes people have large supporting parts, 90% of which end up on the cutting room floor -- and not because the acting wasn't good, or even stellar, but because the director judged that the overall needs of the film demanded less focus on that role. That doesn't make Glenn Close "a loser." She doesn't perform any better or worse because she did or did not win an Oscar. Similarly, a job candidate does not automatically become a better or worse teacher/researcher based on the outcome of any given job search.

VP
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mleok
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« Reply #52 on: March 06, 2012, 6:53:37 PM »

That doesn't make Glenn Close "a loser." She doesn't perform any better or worse because she did or did not win an Oscar. Similarly, a job candidate does not automatically become a better or worse teacher/researcher based on the outcome of any given job search.

Well, to an extent, it does make a difference, since such success provides an actor or academic with opportunities and resources that allow them to grow professionally.
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westcoastgirl
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« Reply #53 on: March 06, 2012, 6:55:49 PM »

The "gramps" comment made me laugh out loud in the library, especially after reading that the referent is a woman. That's all I have to contribute, except to say I've noted that posters with ambiguous screen names quickly get mistaken for men.
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polly_mer
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« Reply #54 on: March 06, 2012, 7:05:52 PM »

The "gramps" comment made me laugh out loud in the library, especially after reading that the referent is a woman. That's all I have to contribute, except to say I've noted that posters with ambiguous screen names quickly get mistaken for men.

Even people without ambiguous screen names often are mistaken in gender.  I respond to sir.
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federale
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« Reply #55 on: March 06, 2012, 8:39:03 PM »

The "gramps" comment made me laugh out loud in the library, especially after reading that the referent is a woman. That's all I have to contribute, except to say I've noted that posters with ambiguous screen names quickly get mistaken for men.

Agreed. Pretty darn funny.

Now, back to Oscars. I certainly don't know much abou that topic, of course, but some people win and others get second place. The supporting win vs. leading loss is a cool contrast, but I don't think that crosswalks to the job hunt. While it is true that getting a lot of interviews is great. It is cold comfort if one keeps coming up short. We all need to eat after all.
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polly_mer
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« Reply #56 on: March 06, 2012, 8:53:01 PM »

Now, back to Oscars. I certainly don't know much abou that topic, of course, but some people win and others get second place. The supporting win vs. leading loss is a cool contrast, but I don't think that crosswalks to the job hunt. While it is true that getting a lot of interviews is great. It is cold comfort if one keeps coming up short. We all need to eat after all.

Well, just like actors/actresses who don't win the Oscar still continue to work in the business, not having a TT job isn't synonymous with not working in the field.

The work I've done for the past 7 years feels pretty real, led to publications, and seems to count as teaching and service experience even though I didn't have assistant professor attached to my name.  I doubt that much will change in the fall when I have assistant professor attached to my name.  It's still teaching, service, and research in various combinations that count on my annual assessment and whether I get to continue in that job or not.
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glowdart
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« Reply #57 on: March 06, 2012, 9:07:53 PM »

And, just like with the Oscars, your competition in any given year might be stiffer than in other years, and/or you might not be the flavor of the year in terms of your research (subject matter), director (advisor), field (movie), etc.  If you're caught up in a sweep of nostalgia for black and white movies, for example... then is it really about you? 



You kids get off my lawn and take your pop-culture-job-search-analogies with you! 
-Gramps
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polly_mer
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« Reply #58 on: March 06, 2012, 9:44:24 PM »

You kids get off my lawn and take your pop-culture-job-search-analogies with you! 
-Gramps

Does that mean I'm now competent in pop-culture?  Can I put that on my CV as a differentiating factor?
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oldfullprof
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« Reply #59 on: March 06, 2012, 10:40:49 PM »

Someone once told me that those godawful Philosophy of {Simpsons, Survivor, Deep Throat, Seinfeld...} books were like sociologists doing "pop culture."  No, they're stupid.  So are the sociology ones like this.

Now, if you had Philosophy of DaSeinfeld, you might have something.
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Taste o' the Sixties
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