• October 31, 2014
October 31, 2014, 1:57:41 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with your Chronicle username and password
News: Talk about how to cope with chronic illness, disability, and other health issues in the academic workplace.
 
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7
  Print  
Author Topic: No, I think I'll skip developmental  (Read 24067 times)
ptarmigan
grad student & chief dork dumpling
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 4,142


« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2012, 2:56:08 PM »

It sounds bad for the developmental students and bad for the non-developmental students whose classes will (inevitably) be made weaker as profesors have to "teach the students they have" which will now include (even more) students who lack basic skills.
Logged

He's on my roster, but if I've taught him anything, it isn't math.
fishbrains
I've been called a [member], but never a
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 2,460


« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2012, 4:12:37 PM »

I found a bit of news coverage on this here. The reasoning is clearly driven by the latest craze for accountability, boiled down in this case to completion time: "Seven out of 10 students entering state community colleges take at least one non-credit remedial course, which hinders their ability to graduate in two years."


That financial aid considers a 12-hour semester load to be "full time" doesn't help. It's amazing how many students (and others) really, truly think that taking a 12-hour "full load" for four semesters/two years will net them a cc degree requiring 60 credit hours. 

The concept of a "two-year" degree is one of the biggest myths in cc education given the number of students taking remedial/developmental courses, attending part-time, taking the 12-hour load minimum, repeating courses, dealing with family and other issues, etc. 
Logged

Settle down, raise a family, join the PTA,
Buy some sensible shoes and a Chevrolet,
And party 'till you're broke and they drag you away.
It's okay: You can dare to be stupid!
~Weird Al
new_bus_prof
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 1,698


« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2012, 4:26:29 PM »

There is a bill to be voted on in the CT legislature. It would allow students open access to college credit-bearing courses. For example, if a student places into a developmental course, he or she can just say no and enroll in an EN 101 class. Same deal applies for math. A student places in Intro to Algebra but chooses to take College Algebra instead.

Do any of the rest of you have open access in your state? How is it working?

Sound like your college faculty and administrators need to get rolling on a college policy about students that place into a developmental course.

The school here has an admission policy that states: Students who have not met one or more of the admission requirements will be provisionally admitted to the university for one semester only. The admission requirements include a specific score for writing and math on the ACT, SAT or departmental placement exams. Students provisionally admitted must earn a 3.0/ 4.0 to continue with the university. * Admissions can only accept 5% of the freshman class as provisional.

5% may not sound like a lot, but that can be more than some of the majors/programs offered on campus. It also means we have a good selection of developmental courses for students to choose from, but the school's overall exposure to developmental students is limited.
Logged
dr_alcott
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 10,320


« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2012, 4:30:36 PM »

I found a bit of news coverage on this here. The reasoning is clearly driven by the latest craze for accountability, boiled down in this case to completion time: "Seven out of 10 students entering state community colleges take at least one non-credit remedial course, which hinders their ability to graduate in two years."

Well, of course it does. But that's not the fault of the curriculum. Obviously.

The concept of a "two-year" degree is one of the biggest myths in cc education given the number of students taking remedial/developmental courses, attending part-time, taking the 12-hour load minimum, repeating courses, dealing with family and other issues, etc. 

Indeed.
Logged

You must be your own snow, Dr_Alcott.  You must lift, and sparkle, and then melt away.

I love everyone here!
odessa
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 1,213


« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2012, 8:48:28 PM »


Apparently the lawmakers skipped Developmental Decision-Making.

VP
[/quote]

This, good grief, this.  Especially if it gets combined with pressure over D/F/W rates and student-performance measures tied to faculty retention or merit.

We have a related issue at my school.  A not insignificant portion of the student population is increasingly drawn from overseas.  Some of these students are fabulous, but many of them come in with not-ready-for-prime-college-time English language skills.  They get placed into ESL classes, but 1) we can't technically force them to take those courses and 2) they simultaneously get enrolled in 100 and 200 level gen ed classes since we don't have a true, full-time, let alone multi-semester ESL program.  It's a mess.  At least, it's a mess of our own institutional making and not imposed on us by the state!
Logged
goldenapple
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 1,667


« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2012, 10:14:39 PM »

I found a bit of news coverage on this here. The reasoning is clearly driven by the latest craze for accountability, boiled down in this case to completion time: "Seven out of 10 students entering state community colleges take at least one non-credit remedial course, which hinders their ability to graduate in two years."

Well, of course it does. But that's not the fault of the curriculum. Obviously.

The concept of a "two-year" degree is one of the biggest myths in cc education given the number of students taking remedial/developmental courses, attending part-time, taking the 12-hour load minimum, repeating courses, dealing with family and other issues, etc. 

Indeed.

I find it hilarious that it's the remedial courses keeping students from graduating. It's like saying that people on crutches take longer to climb a flight of stairs than people without crutches. What to do? Well, get rid of the crutches, obviously!
Logged
oldadjunct
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 4,987

LIFO. Enough said.


« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2012, 10:50:11 PM »

I found a bit of news coverage on this here. The reasoning is clearly driven by the latest craze for accountability, boiled down in this case to completion time: "Seven out of 10 students entering state community colleges take at least one non-credit remedial course, which hinders their ability to graduate in two years."

Well, of course it does. But that's not the fault of the curriculum. Obviously.

The concept of a "two-year" degree is one of the biggest myths in cc education given the number of students taking remedial/developmental courses, attending part-time, taking the 12-hour load minimum, repeating courses, dealing with family and other issues, etc. 

Indeed.

I find it hilarious that it's the remedial courses keeping students from graduating. It's like saying that people on crutches take longer to climb a flight of stairs than people without crutches. What to do? Well, get rid of the crutches, obviously!

I operate now in an island of calm in the midst of the largest CC system in the country (400k students, I think.  I don't really pay much attention to that stuff).  My chair and all the rest of us (FT and not) take seriously  course retention and program completion rates.  But as most of us here know, the fundamental mission of all CC's is to give students one last shot knowing that the majority of them won't make it. 

This semester out of 75 students, I have four who have each attempted first semester college credit Comp I seven times, two of them twice with me; they have been at this school longer than I have.  Among that same 75, another eight have already disappeared without comment, and one who had reasonable promise dropped last week, as I turned back to him my rare B+ paper, because he had to work for his father's business. 
Logged

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan

OMG!  My partner gave me hu!  What do I do to get rid of hu?
galactic_hedgehog
Procrastinating, Python-quoting, Blue Blazer-drinking, chocolate-chip cookie-eating, Pastafarian, Not So
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 19,201

Mind Ninja


WWW
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2012, 12:28:58 AM »

From the article MsP cited:
Quote
[David Levinson, a member of the Board of Regents for Higher Education] added that allowing ill-prepared students to skip remedial classes could produce a kind of Darwinian result where they fail introductory classes in large numbers.

I would argue that right now, its pretty Darwinian, Bye said.

I get it.  It's sorta like an Endangered Species Act for Snowflakes.

That is phenomenally poor decision-making.  My discipline doesn't have a developmental studies level, but I can only imagine that this would wreak havoc for English & mathematics.  Urgh.

And for science.  And for history.  And for, well, everything.
Logged

fosca
Peripatetic Professor
Senior member
****
Posts: 934


« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2012, 9:34:58 AM »


That is phenomenally poor decision-making.  My discipline doesn't have a developmental studies level, but I can only imagine that this would wreak havoc for English & mathematics.  Urgh.

And for science.  And for history.  And for, well, everything.


Welcome to my world.  I've been living this (having students who don't score high enough to get into college English or college Reading (!) take my course) for almost eight years, and complaining about it here nearly as long, and it is indeed a nightmare.  Students are allowed in the class who don't have a hope in hell of passing it, due to lack of skills, but they have to take something . . . and they fail or vanish in large numbers.  And yet the problems with retention/failure rate is all my fault.
Logged

They equate learning with "understanding magically everything that [the professor] teaches us because it's all so easy" not "expanding their knowledge and ability to apply that knowledge to new situations and problems."
prytania3
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 44,063

Prytania, the Foracle


« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2012, 12:00:41 PM »

From the article MsP cited:
Quote
[David Levinson, a member of the Board of Regents for Higher Education] added that allowing ill-prepared students to skip remedial classes could produce a kind of Darwinian result where they fail introductory classes in large numbers.

I would argue that right now, its pretty Darwinian, Bye said.

I get it.  It's sorta like an Endangered Species Act for Snowflakes.

That is phenomenally poor decision-making.  My discipline doesn't have a developmental studies level, but I can only imagine that this would wreak havoc for English & mathematics.  Urgh.

And for science.  And for history.  And for, well, everything.

I know David Levinson. He's a good man and a smart one, and I don't know why Beth Bye (who's a Dem, btw) thinks she has more knowledge on education than Dr. Levinson. I think this whole plan is catastrophic. It will be a blood bath.

Now, I admit, my pass rate (counting the D/F/W) is about 60%, give or take depending on the semester, but as someone else pointed out (I think Ms. P.), the ones falling through the cracks are the ones who simply don't do the work. They are at the college playing student. Many of my students who get out of developmental English go on to do very well.
Logged

I'm not a narcissist. I'm just angry and violent.
theritas
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 2,693


« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2012, 10:07:32 AM »

Well, if it were high school, it would still be the teacher's fault if the underprepared student failed the class and then the standardized test.  And then the teacher's results would be published in the newspaper.  Right?
Logged
unusedusername
Member
***
Posts: 155


« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2012, 11:25:22 AM »

The inevitable next step is pressure by the legislature to "increase completion rates" in our college-level courses because of the large number of failures.  Either Connecticut is Lake Wobegon or the dumbing down of college continues.
Logged
galactic_hedgehog
Procrastinating, Python-quoting, Blue Blazer-drinking, chocolate-chip cookie-eating, Pastafarian, Not So
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 19,201

Mind Ninja


WWW
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2012, 1:03:54 PM »

The inevitable next step is pressure by the legislature to "increase completion rates" in our college-level courses because of the large number of failures.  Either Connecticut is Lake Wobegon or the dumbing down of college continues.

I'm waiting for something like this to be applied to grad school.  I'm thinking of getting a PhD in Serbian Literature and don't think I should have to learn the language.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 1:04:27 PM by galactic_hedgehog » Logged

prytania3
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 44,063

Prytania, the Foracle


« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2012, 6:21:45 PM »

I talked to a friend of mine, who works for the union, and he said the bill will pass. No one else seems to be bugging but me. I'm wondering if I should change my schedule for the fall. Everyone is being very lackadaisical about the whole thing. I count on teaching a class overload, and now I'm not even sure my developmental classes will run. They are at prime time, but still.

Beth Bye is an idiot.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2012, 6:23:49 PM by prytania3 » Logged

I'm not a narcissist. I'm just angry and violent.
mountainguy
The no longer carbonated
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 17,125


« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2012, 7:25:46 PM »

Wow, Pry. That sucks.

Re-reading the article, I'm struggling to understand Beth Bye's rationale for the legislation. What is it supposed to accomplish? Does she really think it's going to result in more students successfully completing degrees? Or does she want colleges to admit fewer students in the first place? It just doesn't make sense to me.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 7
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.9 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
  • 1255 Twenty-Third St., N.W.
  • Washington, D.C. 20037
subscribe today

Get the insight you need for success in academe.