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Author Topic: Another Article on Aging Professors  (Read 43199 times)
polly_mer
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Have you worked on that project today?


« Reply #135 on: March 31, 2012, 9:02:09 PM »

I tried an inverted classroom, but students kept passing out from the blood rushing to their heads. - DvF

Well, you do have to keep flipping the students around to prevent that from happening..  That's why the common term is "flipping the classroom".
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oldfullprof
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« Reply #136 on: March 31, 2012, 9:08:15 PM »

I think many of my classes work because the have the pleasant, perhaps interesting feeling Polly cited when referring to her talk Monday night.  Paulo Friere discussed more open instruction of this sort when he criticized the "banking model" of instruction (where we try to program things into the students.) 
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« Reply #137 on: March 31, 2012, 9:11:25 PM »

I tried an inverted classroom, but students kept passing out from the blood rushing to their heads. - DvF

Well, you do have to keep flipping the students around to prevent that from happening..  That's why the common term is "flipping the classroom".

Awesome.

I heart you guys.
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polly_mer
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Have you worked on that project today?


« Reply #138 on: March 31, 2012, 9:26:25 PM »

I think many of my classes work because the have the pleasant, perhaps interesting feeling Polly cited when referring to her talk Monday night.  Paulo Friere discussed more open instruction of this sort when he criticized the "banking model" of instruction (where we try to program things into the students.) 

Oh, the banking model of instruction definitely doesn't work, despite how much some of my colleagues and most of my students want it to.  Discussion works if true discussion can be had (who doesn't "love" discussion that has two students who read and thought about the material, 3 students who read the material, and 10 students who not only didn't read this week's material, but haven't read any material in three weeks nor did they listen during the previous discussions by people who had prepared?).  If no one prepares for discussion, then an interactive lecture would be better.
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proftowanda
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« Reply #139 on: April 01, 2012, 12:04:27 AM »

My very bright child gave up on college too soon after too many classes in which, he said, students did all of the talking and had nothing to say.  He said that he had gone to college to hear what the professors had to say.

When he found a different campus less prone to the latest trendy acronym, and he had professors who did the teaching, he did fine -- and finally got to graduation.
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« Reply #140 on: April 01, 2012, 5:17:33 AM »

My very bright child gave up on college too soon after too many classes in which, he said, students did all of the talking and had nothing to say.  He said that he had gone to college to hear what the professors had to say.

When he found a different campus less prone to the latest trendy acronym, and he had professors who did the teaching, he did fine -- and finally got to graduation.

This.

You know what? Lectures aren't the only way to go, but really, for a lot of students a lot of the time, they are an excellent model.
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aandsdean
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« Reply #141 on: April 01, 2012, 7:57:55 AM »

I tried an inverted classroom, but students kept passing out from the blood rushing to their heads. - DvF

Educationally speaking, that's a much better place for it than where it usually is among college students.
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neutralname
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« Reply #142 on: April 01, 2012, 8:05:19 AM »

I heard this week that one of our dinosaurs is retiring.  I cheered. 
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polly_mer
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Have you worked on that project today?


« Reply #143 on: April 01, 2012, 9:05:27 AM »

My very bright child gave up on college too soon after too many classes in which, he said, students did all of the talking and had nothing to say.  He said that he had gone to college to hear what the professors had to say.

When he found a different campus less prone to the latest trendy acronym, and he had professors who did the teaching, he did fine -- and finally got to graduation.

This.

You know what? Lectures aren't the only way to go, but really, for a lot of students a lot of the time, they are an excellent model.

This depends hugely on what one wants students to learn.

No one learns a lab science by watching a lecture.  People have to try.

To learn math, at some point, people have to try.  One of the reasons for huge failure rates in intro math and science courses that require math is that students have no clue after lecture, go home, get discouraged because they have no clue, and then don't try any more.  Being in a classroom seeing that nearly everyone is struggling, working together in groups of 3-5 to logic out the problems together, and asking questions right then in the middle of the struggle tends to produce people who learn the math and related logic skills for science. 

But, yeah, let's knock all group work and all discussion because it's trendy and students didn't pay to learn from each other.  Last time I checked, what students paid to do was like joining the gym--some expert will provide and maintain the equipment, allow students to find their right level, and provide advice on what to do with that equipment and the offered workshops.  Whether the student gets an education is up to whether the student puts in the effort to use the equipment and show up for the right workshops.
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spork
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« Reply #144 on: April 01, 2012, 2:28:23 PM »

My very bright child gave up on college too soon after too many classes in which, he said, students did all of the talking and had nothing to say.  He said that he had gone to college to hear what the professors had to say.

When he found a different campus less prone to the latest trendy acronym, and he had professors who did the teaching, he did fine -- and finally got to graduation.

This.

You know what? Lectures aren't the only way to go, but really, for a lot of students a lot of the time, they are an excellent model.

This depends hugely on what one wants students to learn.

No one learns a lab science by watching a lecture.  People have to try.

To learn math, at some point, people have to try.  One of the reasons for huge failure rates in intro math and science courses that require math is that students have no clue after lecture, go home, get discouraged because they have no clue, and then don't try any more.  Being in a classroom seeing that nearly everyone is struggling, working together in groups of 3-5 to logic out the problems together, and asking questions right then in the middle of the struggle tends to produce people who learn the math and related logic skills for science. 

But, yeah, let's knock all group work and all discussion because it's trendy and students didn't pay to learn from each other.  Last time I checked, what students paid to do was like joining the gym--some expert will provide and maintain the equipment, allow students to find their right level, and provide advice on what to do with that equipment and the offered workshops.  Whether the student gets an education is up to whether the student puts in the effort to use the equipment and show up for the right workshops.


You mean paying money to do nothing but sit in a room with other people won't make me physically fit or smart? That is so unfair.
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proftowanda
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« Reply #145 on: April 01, 2012, 3:06:12 PM »

My very bright child gave up on college too soon after too many classes in which, he said, students did all of the talking and had nothing to say.  He said that he had gone to college to hear what the professors had to say.

When he found a different campus less prone to the latest trendy acronym, and he had professors who did the teaching, he did fine -- and finally got to graduation.

This.

You know what? Lectures aren't the only way to go, but really, for a lot of students a lot of the time, they are an excellent model.

This depends hugely on what one wants students to learn.

No one learns a lab science by watching a lecture.  People have to try.

To learn math, at some point, people have to try.  One of the reasons for huge failure rates in intro math and science courses that require math is that students have no clue after lecture, go home, get discouraged because they have no clue, and then don't try any more.  Being in a classroom seeing that nearly everyone is struggling, working together in groups of 3-5 to logic out the problems together, and asking questions right then in the middle of the struggle tends to produce people who learn the math and related logic skills for science. 

But, yeah, let's knock all group work and all discussion because it's trendy and students didn't pay to learn from each other.  Last time I checked, what students paid to do was like joining the gym--some expert will provide and maintain the equipment, allow students to find their right level, and provide advice on what to do with that equipment and the offered workshops.  Whether the student gets an education is up to whether the student puts in the effort to use the equipment and show up for the right workshops.


Of course, your applied courses are not the same as discussion by students who have not prepared by doing readings nor by getting hands-on work.

The problem that especially discouraged my child, and that I have witnessed as well, was lack of classroom command by instructors who let some students dominate "discussion" (read: monologues).

Lab work, well-designed group work, he enjoyed, but those were rare -- as science was not his field -- at a time when the campus was under pressure (I saw many memos) by admins dissing "the sage on the stage." 
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oldfullprof
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« Reply #146 on: April 01, 2012, 3:23:28 PM »

Well, the sage should try to be interesting...But sage isn't a bad way to go.  About 30 minutes is a good time to lecture.
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daniel_von_flanagan
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« Reply #147 on: April 01, 2012, 8:52:09 PM »

One of the reasons for huge failure rates in intro math and science courses that require math is that students have no clue after lecture, go home, get discouraged because they have no clue, and then don't try any more. 
The evidence for this remains rather scant, especially for genuinely college-level classes.

There is some evidence that certain types of organized group work in mathematics helps weaker students, though few studies a scientist would be happy with.  I switch to organized group work for special topics and review sessions, but find it terribly inefficient and would not be able to cover the required material if I used it regularly.  I do like inverting the classroom, but my experience with it has been spotty (and the class gets rather awkward when 30% of the students haven't watched the lecture). - DvF
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octoprof
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« Reply #148 on: April 01, 2012, 9:04:54 PM »

One of the reasons for huge failure rates in intro math and science courses that require math is that students have no clue after lecture, go home, get discouraged because they have no clue, and then don't try any more. 
The evidence for this remains rather scant, especially for genuinely college-level classes.

There is some evidence that certain types of organized group work in mathematics helps weaker students, though few studies a scientist would be happy with.  I switch to organized group work for special topics and review sessions, but find it terribly inefficient and would not be able to cover the required material if I used it regularly.  I do like inverting the classroom, but my experience with it has been spotty (and the class gets rather awkward when 30% of the students haven't watched the lecture). - DvF

This pretty well describes my experience in accounting.

Most students of mind who are struggling are struggling because they haven't attempted much of the work, watched the lectures (and even thought of taking notes), or read any of the textbook. Very few of them are struggling because the course material is too difficult intellectually.
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proftowanda
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« Reply #149 on: April 01, 2012, 10:25:22 PM »

Well, the sage should try to be interesting...But sage isn't a bad way to go.  About 30 minutes is a good time to lecture.

Well, of course.  Where was anyone arguing that lectures should be boring?  Point us there in this thread, so we can do another pile-on off topic, and you can come in and sagely denounce it.

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