• October 30, 2014
October 30, 2014, 12:48:07 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with your Chronicle username and password
News: Talk about how to cope with chronic illness, disability, and other health issues in the academic workplace.
 
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
  Print  
Author Topic: Antisemitism and Tenure Denial  (Read 17031 times)
systeme_d_
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 16,154

No T, no shade. Usually.


« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2012, 4:54:57 PM »

Obviously you can understand my point, I suspect-- or not?  At a large state university there may be a dozen or so major world faith groups represented amongst the student body, with numerous sectarian variations, not to mention other smaller religions, all of which could easily have holidays within the year that they would want to have listed as 'no test date' dates.  This would possibly make testing and paper due date assignments all but impossible, if it really is true that such a policy is to be broad-based.  And if it is not, then it is discriminatory against practitioners of religious groups that do not make the cut. 

But Kay, I have done it for over 10 years now.  The universities at which I have worked strongly encouraged this.  It's actually not very hard at all.
Logged

tinyzombie
She of the Badass Abs, and a
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 15,136

elevate from this point on - chuck d


« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2012, 4:55:44 PM »

Obviously you can understand my point, I suspect-- or not?  At a large state university there may be a dozen or so major world faith groups represented amongst the student body, with numerous sectarian variations, not to mention other smaller religions, all of which could easily have holidays within the year that they would want to have listed as 'no test date' dates.  This would possibly make testing and paper due date assignments all but impossible, if it really is true that such a policy is to be broad-based.  And if it is not, then it is discriminatory against practitioners of religious groups that do not make the cut.  

You are deliberately not understanding MY point.

Read système_d_'s post ten times. Maybe then you'll get it.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 4:56:16 PM by tinyzombie » Logged

Quote from: usukprof
I think we have three of them, but the smallest one seems to be the leader.
Quote from: dolljepopp
Who needs real life when Sandra Bullock is around?
Quote from: systeme_d_
You are all my people, and I love you.
proftowanda
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 6,943

"Righter of wrongs, queen beyond compare."


« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2012, 5:34:53 PM »

Obviously you can understand my point, I suspect-- or not?  At a large state university there may be a dozen or so major world faith groups represented amongst the student body, with numerous sectarian variations, not to mention other smaller religions, all of which could easily have holidays within the year that they would want to have listed as 'no test date' dates.  This would possibly make testing and paper due date assignments all but impossible, if it really is true that such a policy is to be broad-based.  And if it is not, then it is discriminatory against practitioners of religious groups that do not make the cut. 

My state system also has the policy of equal recognition of all religious groups' holy days, most of which I have encountered in the huge and diverse student body on my campus, and the policy also includes the option of simply rescheduling for individual students -- even for dates that cannot always be determined at the start of the semester, such as Ramadan.  Did you read to the end of the description of the policy in the comment?

However, faculty and staff who have to take off for holy days are  to take vacation days -- because that includes Christians, as the result of a suit against my state for closing down campus (public) facilities in Holy Week (Maundy Thursday, Good Friday, etc.) 

In practice, though, we just don't keep track of that time off, if people get their work done, and on time, or if they arrange colleague coverage or the like.  I also have many Jewish colleagues who make clear on their syllabi that they do not do email from sundown Friday to late Saturday.  No problem from students on that, either, and it's actually good discipline for them that ought to be emulated by all of us for 24 hours per week!
Logged

"Face it, girls.  I'm older, and I have more insurance."     -- Towanda!
larryc
Troll Proof
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 22,995

Be excellent to each other.


WWW
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2012, 5:37:21 PM »

I want all the Pastafarian holidays off.
Logged

Trolling for sex is not what this forum is all about.
msparticularity
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 18,502

Assistant Professor cum bricoleur


« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2012, 8:39:23 PM »

Our small college town has a significant Muslim population, and I understand from a lot of the local business owners that this has made their scheduling far easier: there's always someone whose holy day it isn't.

The high school where I taught in our old place served an area with a significant population of Skinheads and assorted other White Supremacists. I would get students spouting anti-Semitic stuff, along with anti-everything else, as you can imagine. I would wait until I had gotten to know them well, and build a personal relationship, and then begin talking to them about my own family: my Jewish husband and in-laws, my African-American BIL, my gay brother and his husband, and so on. It led to some pretty enlightening moments, and oddly enough never escalated into anything unpleasant.

This is not to say that it's always easy, but I do suggest that much of this has to do with personal experience and relationship, and it often can only be approached in that way, and not on the level of universals. The research on multicultural education supports this as well; it's one of the justifications many institutions use for admissions processes that favor a cultural mix of students. Unfortunately, however, the current political climate (in the Supreme Court and on campuses) is too often facilitating intolerance instead, since the real priority is economic these days.
Logged

"Once admit that the sole verifiable or fruitful object of knowledge is the particular set of changes that generate the object of study...and no intelligible question can be asked about what, by assumption, lies outside." John Dewey

"Be particular." Jill Conner Browne
ochreluna13
dreaming...
Junior member
**
Posts: 82


« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2012, 9:40:11 PM »

I want all the Pastafarian holidays off.
Could we make the Pastafarian calendar have holidays every Wednesday?  Thanks!  :)
Logged
larryc
Troll Proof
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 22,995

Be excellent to each other.


WWW
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2012, 12:19:35 AM »

The high school where I taught in our old place served an area with a significant population of Skinheads and assorted other White Supremacists. I would get students spouting anti-Semitic stuff, along with anti-everything else, as you can imagine. I would wait until I had gotten to know them well, and build a personal relationship, and then begin talking to them about my own family: my Jewish husband and in-laws, my African-American BIL, my gay brother and his husband, and so on. It led to some pretty enlightening moments, and oddly enough never escalated into anything unpleasant.

You are a great teacher.
Logged

Trolling for sex is not what this forum is all about.
frogfactory
Totally Metal
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 10,600


« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2012, 8:49:26 AM »

It's not that hard to check a calendar and maybe do a bit of quick research to make sure that a date doesn't coincide with a religious holiday.

It's actually rather more complicated than that.  If you did that, for instance, you might conclude that you couldn't schedule anything on any Saint's day.  But there's no injunction to not work on those days for anyone.  I need a calendar with more comprehensive information.
Logged


At the end of the day, sometimes you just have to masturbate in the bathroom.
usukprof
Not sure he's been around long enough to really be a
Member-Moderator
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 10,606

.


« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2012, 9:03:56 AM »

I want all the Pastafarian holidays off.
Could we make the Pastafarian calendar have holidays every Wednesday?  Thanks!  :)

I thought t' only pastafarian religious holiday wl a specific date be Sep. 19.  Aaaar.
Logged

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.  --Dean Vernon Wormer
tinyzombie
She of the Badass Abs, and a
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 15,136

elevate from this point on - chuck d


« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2012, 10:52:21 AM »

It's not that hard to check a calendar and maybe do a bit of quick research to make sure that a date doesn't coincide with a religious holiday.

It's actually rather more complicated than that.  If you did that, for instance, you might conclude that you couldn't schedule anything on any Saint's day.  But there's no injunction to not work on those days for anyone.  I need a calendar with more comprehensive information.

I disagree. I know next to nothing about Christian religions, but I wouldn't be scared off by a saint's day. Plus, it's not hard to find someone to ask if you don't know (at your institution or not).

If you really want to know how simple it can be, ask S_D!
Logged

Quote from: usukprof
I think we have three of them, but the smallest one seems to be the leader.
Quote from: dolljepopp
Who needs real life when Sandra Bullock is around?
Quote from: systeme_d_
You are all my people, and I love you.
ruralguy
Super Duper Zillion Star Member
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 6,665

Full Prof; STEM; SLAC; Rural US


« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2012, 11:03:28 AM »

As my moniker suggests, I'm in a rural area. It happens to be one thats majority Christian.
This is true of our student population as well (though its spilt up between Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, etc).

Our student Jewish population is very small, and most of them are non-observant.

The faculty Jewish population is a bit higher, but still pretty small.

In any case, the policy of my college is that religious holidays are excused absences, and professors must
allow students to make up work they missed due to excused absences. Professors may also take off on these days and
make up the day some other way. However, its always up to a student and
his/her advisers to pick courses and such that wouldn't horribly conflict with religious matters or something else.
That is, if you are an observant Jew, don't sign up for the friday afternoon section of lab, and then ask the professor to run the lab just for you every single week at some other time.  If thats the only section, and you need it for the major, well then, the professor will have to make some sort of accomodation. At least, those are the rules at my school. In all my time here, I only had one student mention the Jewish holidays specifically (and, of course, allowed the absence), and some of the Catholic students in particular have mentioned Good Friday (which we don't get off).
Logged
proftowanda
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 6,943

"Righter of wrongs, queen beyond compare."


« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2012, 11:17:53 AM »

It's not that hard to check a calendar and maybe do a bit of quick research to make sure that a date doesn't coincide with a religious holiday.

It's actually rather more complicated than that.  If you did that, for instance, you might conclude that you couldn't schedule anything on any Saint's day.  But there's no injunction to not work on those days for anyone.  I need a calendar with more comprehensive information.

Ummmm, you do understand, I hope, that every day is some saint's day?

Not that it matters.  Saints' days are not holy days, and the discussion is about holy days, i.e., days when observant faithful of any faith are to attend worship services or otherwise observe requisite rituals that also may require not being at work and/or doing classwork.
Logged

"Face it, girls.  I'm older, and I have more insurance."     -- Towanda!
frogfactory
Totally Metal
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 10,600


« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2012, 12:14:23 PM »

It's not that hard to check a calendar and maybe do a bit of quick research to make sure that a date doesn't coincide with a religious holiday.

It's actually rather more complicated than that.  If you did that, for instance, you might conclude that you couldn't schedule anything on any Saint's day.  But there's no injunction to not work on those days for anyone.  I need a calendar with more comprehensive information.

Ummmm, you do understand, I hope, that every day is some saint's day?

Not that it matters.  Saints' days are not holy days, and the discussion is about holy days, i.e., days when observant faithful of any faith are to attend worship services or otherwise observe requisite rituals that also may require not being at work and/or doing classwork.

Yes, that's my point.  How can you expect someone from a secular culture to a) know that and b) know which Jewish/Muslim/Sikhish/Hindu 'days' are holy enough for a day off?  Do you really think everyone has a friend from every possible religion to hand to ask?  Or to care all that much?  A calendar that had some degree of clarification about which days were just for observance, which were entirely optional (like Saints' days) and which were mandated days off for at least some proportion of every possible religious group would be a help.
Logged


At the end of the day, sometimes you just have to masturbate in the bathroom.
kaysixteen
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 7,749


« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2012, 4:12:47 PM »

My point should have been easy enough to understand. [Edited for personal attack -moderator]

It is simply NOT possible for a professor within any given semester to accommodate all possible religious observance dates that any given student practitioner of any given religion, however obscure or even idiosyncratic, might choose to require observance of, and it is certainly not up to a state or secular private uni to decide that my religion deserves such accommodations but yours does not.  So, in such circumstances, like it or not, the school must set up policies whereby people can be excused from tests on religious dates of their choosing, and allowed reasonable time to make them up, etc., but to require calendrical alterations in syllabi is just not reasonable, at least not for all groups likely or even potentially likely to be represented in the student body.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 11:30:17 AM by moderator » Logged
corny
maizetastic, grained-up
Distinguished Senior Member
*****
Posts: 1,928


« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2012, 4:45:44 PM »

It's not that hard to check a calendar and maybe do a bit of quick research to make sure that a date doesn't coincide with a religious holiday.

It's actually rather more complicated than that.  If you did that, for instance, you might conclude that you couldn't schedule anything on any Saint's day.  But there's no injunction to not work on those days for anyone.  I need a calendar with more comprehensive information.

Ummmm, you do understand, I hope, that every day is some saint's day?

Not that it matters.  Saints' days are not holy days, and the discussion is about holy days, i.e., days when observant faithful of any faith are to attend worship services or otherwise observe requisite rituals that also may require not being at work and/or doing classwork.

Yes, that's my point.  How can you expect someone from a secular culture to a) know that and b) know which Jewish/Muslim/Sikhish/Hindu 'days' are holy enough for a day off?  Do you really think everyone has a friend from every possible religion to hand to ask?  Or to care all that much?  A calendar that had some degree of clarification about which days were just for observance, which were entirely optional (like Saints' days) and which were mandated days off for at least some proportion of every possible religious group would be a help.

FF, I like to use this calendar for precisely that reason: http://www.interfaithcalendar.org/index.htm. While it doesn't tell me which days people might expect to have off, it does at least indicate which holidays are the major ones for a whole slew of religions.
Logged

It may just be bourbon in the garden today, and making the best of things.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.9 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
  • 1255 Twenty-Third St., N.W.
  • Washington, D.C. 20037
subscribe today

Get the insight you need for success in academe.