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[dqa9653]

I should be so lucky, but… Counter offers: Do they still exist? If so, how specific should one be when telling a potential employer that you received another offer? Would the potential employer want to know which institution has made an offer, and/or the exact details; would they want to see a correspondence from the other institution with a job offer? And if they do – how much information should you provide? What is the "point of no return" (of either verbal or written agreement) after which you would consider it wrong to entertain offers from other institutions – or can you change you mind at any time? Thanks.

[systeme_d_]

When I told my dean that I had an offer from another institution, I was asked for the exact amount of the salary offer, so the dean could determine whether my institution could or would match it.

They needed the exact amount and the location of the second institution so that they could do a cost-of-living adjustment to determine what "matching" would actually mean in exact dollars.

In my case, I ended up taking the offer from the other institution, so I don't have a personal experience of a "point of no return."

[dqa9653]

Thanks! So your dean did not ask to know exactly which institution it was, and did not ask to see a written offer? I am also more curious about experiences of counter offers by potential employers (i.e. choosing between two institutions you are applying to, rather than one where you already work). Thank again!

[systeme_d_]

No, my dean didn't need documentation of any sort, and I did mention the name of the institution as well as its location.  I had known my dean for a decade, and we were operating from positions of mutual trust.

The dean did need to determine whether the offered position would be down, equal, or up in rank, as well as whether the institution itself would be a lateral move (or a move up or down) when calculating a counteroffer.  

Let me also be clear on this point:  In negotiations, when you propose a counteroffer you are refusing an offer.  This means that the institution has every right to stop negotiations right there, and withdraw the offer.  Keep that in mind.

[tortugaphd]

First, congratulations on being in the fortunate position of entertaining multiple offers!

I've only once been in the position of juggling more than one offer.  I don't think I did the best possible job at working one offer to leverage the other because I was a newbie (if I could turn back the clock, I'd do it differently knowing what I know now), but I would advise you to ask for anything you can think of right now that would be beneficial to your taking either one of the offers.  Salary is only one factor.  If the institution is unionized, they may have little wiggle room with the salary.  However, there is also: start up funds, course reductions, timing of junior leave, accelerated tenure clock, summer stipend, spousal hire, etc. that they may be able to throw in for you.

In my particular case, neither of the institutions asked about the identity of the other, but I was surprised that they didn't.

As a newbie I was shy about pushing too hard on these things.  I asked for only a little and, thus, got only a little.  After I started the job, I realized what a mistake that was because others had gotten more.  Don't make the same mistake I did.  Ask, ask, ask!

[babbinacara]

This made me think: "Fries with that?"
"Supersize that for you?"

Don't mind me; carry on.

[zharkov]

Get a copy of Getting to Yes, an excellent introduction to negotiations, available at many libraries and bookstores.

[janewales]

I have not been in the position of choosing between two or more offers, but I have negotiated with my own institution on the basis of interest from other universities. In my case, the dean and provost wanted to know the identity of the other institutions, because they had a policy of competing only with peer or better institutions (in other words, if the offer came from somewhere they considered below us in the rankings, they wouldn't make a counter offer). They did not ask for documentation.

There will doubtless be considerable variation in the way institutions handle competing offers. Do you have a trusted mentor with whom you can discuss the specifics?

[firstgeneration]

Yes, they do still exist.  My current dean made it incredibly difficult for me to sign the new offer I received.

[bassethound]

Let me also be clear on this point:  In negotiations, when you propose a counteroffer you are refusing an offer.  This means that the institution has every right to stop negotiations right there, and withdraw the offer.  Keep that in mind.

I don't understand this. One could argue that asking (as a poster above also suggests) for other considerations/additions to the deal would cause the offering institution to rescind their offer. But we know they don't do that -- it's negotiation.
How many people have had an offer rescinded when they proposed a counter-offer from another institution?

[msparticularity]

Let me also be clear on this point:  In negotiations, when you propose a counteroffer you are refusing an offer.  This means that the institution has every right to stop negotiations right there, and withdraw the offer.  Keep that in mind.

I don't understand this. One could argue that asking (as a poster above also suggests) for other considerations/additions to the deal would cause the offering institution to rescind their offer. But we know they don't do that -- it's negotiation.
How many people have had an offer rescinded when they proposed a counter-offer from another institution?

There have been accounts here in previous years of precisely this happening. In most cases, I have had the impression that the problem may have been in the way that it was handled: the individual approached "negotiation" by giving an ultimatum or making a demand, which led to the offer being withdrawn.

Also, realize that there are very definitely administrators out there who do not believe in negotiations: offers are made on a "take it or leave it" basis, and it is not always possible to know this until it is too late. This is why some here suggest beginning any conversation about an offer by asking politely whether there is any room for negotiation. Doing it that way can avoid the impression that one has rejected the initial offer.

[zharkov]

Let me also be clear on this point:  In negotiations, when you propose a counteroffer you are refusing an offer.  This means that the institution has every right to stop negotiations right there, and withdraw the offer.  Keep that in mind.

I don't understand this. One could argue that asking (as a poster above also suggests) for other considerations/additions to the deal would cause the offering institution to rescind their offer. But we know they don't do that -- it's negotiation.
How many people have had an offer rescinded when they proposed a counter-offer from another institution?

There have been accounts here in previous years of precisely this happening. In most cases, I have had the impression that the problem may have been in the way that it was handled: the individual approached "negotiation" by giving an ultimatum or making a demand, which led to the offer being withdrawn.

Also, realize that there are very definitely administrators out there who do not believe in negotiations: offers are made on a "take it or leave it" basis, and it is not always possible to know this until it is too late. This is why some here suggest beginning any conversation about an offer by asking politely whether there is any room for negotiation. Doing it that way can avoid the impression that one has rejected the initial offer.

Exactly.  The first thing that gets negotiated is the negotiation process.  I believe in a process that is fair, businesslike, based on objective data, and as transparent as possible/reasonable.  If either party wants to play a win/lose game, either by being a demanding applicant or a "take it or leave it" admin, I see such behavior as a red flag, indicative of trouble down the road.   When I've hired people, I tell them the job pays $X, we have budgeted $X, and tell the admin to offer $X.  I think it is childish to play a game of offering $X-5K, leaving room to negotiate, but people do that all the time. So maybe I'm the oddball.

[seniorscholar]

I should be so lucky, but… Counter offers: Do they still exist? If so, how specific should one be when telling a potential employer that you received another offer?

To my eye, this post is about two competing offers from other institutions; most of the posters seem to be using the phrase as it is most commonly used in academe: using an offer from somewhere else to try to get a raise at the school you're currently working for.

So which is it? Two offers for other jobs, or a TT/continuing current job and an offer from elsewhere? The negotiating process is quite different in these two cases.

[msparticularity]

Let me also be clear on this point:  In negotiations, when you propose a counteroffer you are refusing an offer.  This means that the institution has every right to stop negotiations right there, and withdraw the offer.  Keep that in mind.

I don't understand this. One could argue that asking (as a poster above also suggests) for other considerations/additions to the deal would cause the offering institution to rescind their offer. But we know they don't do that -- it's negotiation.
How many people have had an offer rescinded when they proposed a counter-offer from another institution?

There have been accounts here in previous years of precisely this happening. In most cases, I have had the impression that the problem may have been in the way that it was handled: the individual approached "negotiation" by giving an ultimatum or making a demand, which led to the offer being withdrawn.

Also, realize that there are very definitely administrators out there who do not believe in negotiations: offers are made on a "take it or leave it" basis, and it is not always possible to know this until it is too late. This is why some here suggest beginning any conversation about an offer by asking politely whether there is any room for negotiation. Doing it that way can avoid the impression that one has rejected the initial offer.

Exactly.  The first thing that gets negotiated is the negotiation process.  I believe in a process that is fair, businesslike, based on objective data, and as transparent as possible/reasonable.  If either party wants to play a win/lose game, either by being a demanding applicant or a "take it or leave it" admin, I see such behavior as a red flag, indicative of trouble down the road.   When I've hired people, I tell them the job pays $X, we have budgeted $X, and tell the admin to offer $X.  I think it is childish to play a game of offering $X-5K, leaving room to negotiate, but people do that all the time. So maybe I'm the oddball.

I'm an oddball too. Despite the frequent advice to say nothing until an offer has been made, I had a pre-negotiation with the Dean on my recent campus visit, in which I told him what I would need to make it possible and worthwhile for me to relocate. I didn't bring up the topic myself, either; he was laying out the budgeted salary and benefits and so on for me. I was quite honest and straightforward, and didn't inflate anything, though, to try to push for a high number purely for negotiating purposes.

My theory in handling it this way was that I didn't want to waste anyone's time if there was no way they could do what I needed. It worked fine; they offered the position on good terms, and I accepted.

I guess my advice to pretty much anyone in a negotiating situation is that, if you are going to be working with someone in future, you really want to approach negotiation in a principled and grounded way. The point is not  to "win" in the sense of extracting every possible immediate advantage, but to ensure that your actual needs will be met so you can do the job they need you to do. (The really short version of Getting to Yes?)

[zyzzx]

I think it is childish to play a game of offering $X-5K, leaving room to negotiate, but people do that all the time. So maybe I'm the oddball.

Yes, I really hate this too. At several places that I've interviewed, either the department chair or the dean will tell me: they will offer you $X, but give you $X+5k if you negotiate. Which leaves me wondering what the hell is the point of offering $X-5k in the first place if you tell every candidate to negotiate up to $X. How is it even a negotiation if the person you will be negotiating with tells you during your interview exactly what you should ask for? Just offer that and save us all some time and angst.
But I know I am an oddball - I am very impatient with all sorts of rote meaningless social rituals, and I like these sorts of things in black and white.