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weathered
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« on: February 15, 2012, 02:40:28 PM » |
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What English speaking countries have universities without US style tenure system? I am thinking about the ones without external reviews, reference checks, and so on, but with strong research component.
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« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 02:41:02 PM by weather123 »
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scotia
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« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2012, 04:38:51 PM » |
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The UK. We have a probation system (more rigorous in some places than others), and if you pass probation you have a 'permanent' contract. I have seen people fail to get through probation at two institutions because of inadequate research.
If you want a research oriented UK university choose with care. Some places place a strong emphasis on teaching and research is very much a secondary part of their mission.
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bacardiandlime
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That makes me more gangster than you
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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2012, 12:20:57 PM » |
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Australia
New Zealand
I'm getting the impression from your threads that you're hoping to avoid being interviewed, having your references checked, or going through a tenure process....
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YOU ARE NASTY
Go jump in lake!
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canuckois
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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2012, 01:13:44 PM » |
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Australia
New Zealand
I'm getting the impression from your threads that you're hoping to avoid being interviewed, having your references checked, or going through a tenure process....
Seriously. What's with all these threads? |
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Now I am Angelina Jolie! No, wait, I am her leg!!
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chaosbydesign
"I like to lyse bacteria. Did you know I'm utterly insane?"
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I'm doing Science and I'm still alive.
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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2012, 01:19:46 PM » |
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The UK. We have a probation system (more rigorous in some places than others), and if you pass probation you have a 'permanent' contract. I have seen people fail to get through probation at two institutions because of inadequate research.
If you want a research oriented UK university choose with care. Some places place a strong emphasis on teaching and research is very much a secondary part of their mission.
Places in the UK will probably want to check references, though. |
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Seriously, I tried to lick my own face. Ah. Typical ivory tower pedanticalness.
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weathered
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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2012, 03:04:43 PM » |
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Thanks. Regardless of what I hope, I have done interviews, I am also preparing for an interview now, and all of my job applications required references (old and new). I don't know about tenure issues, that's a few years away from now--that is, IF I can find a TT job. I can't think that far right now. Well, it's good to know that Australia and New Zealand play by different rules. Australia
New Zealand
I'm getting the impression from your threads that you're hoping to avoid being interviewed, having your references checked, or going through a tenure process....
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bacardiandlime
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That makes me more gangster than you
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2012, 03:07:40 PM » |
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I don't know about tenure issues, that's a few years away from now--that is, IF I can find a TT job. I can't think that far right now.
So why did you start this thread? Well, it's good to know that Australia and New Zealand play by different rules. Different does not mean "easier", which is what you seem to be looking for. |
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YOU ARE NASTY
Go jump in lake!
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montrealer
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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2012, 03:18:15 PM » |
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This is often field dependent. For example in one department of my university (in Canada), they require external reviews and reference checks for tenure; but in another department they don't.
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cranefly
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« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2012, 05:27:11 PM » |
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This is often field dependent. For example in one department of my university (in Canada), they require external reviews and reference checks for tenure; but in another department they don't.
Really? I've never heard of that. At my Canadian school external reviews from an equivalent or better school is mandatory across the board. |
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Oh yeah--Professor Sparkle Pony. "Follow your dreams, young genius, and you will meet with success!" Students eat that up.
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11thfloor
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« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2012, 05:59:00 PM » |
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I think it is a good question. I think there's a lot to be said for alternative systems to the tenure system which rely so heavily on exploiting adjuncts and in which a lot of joyless research is done for the sake of tenure. Universities in the UK, Australia and New Zealand produce world-class research without the tenures system. Most academics take full advantage of institutional support for their research out of a genuine commitment to research for its own sake, as well as for career advantages. Research is going to be important for an initial hire, and for promotions, but job security isn't something you have to worry about for the first eight years or so of your career and doesn't have to drive your research. That said, other pressures have come in with new measures to account for research productivity across different universities like the RAE and PBRF which have their own absurdities, but have also led to more institutional support for research than ever before.
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montrealer
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« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2012, 11:02:40 AM » |
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This is often field dependent. For example in one department of my university (in Canada), they require external reviews and reference checks for tenure; but in another department they don't.
Really? I've never heard of that. At my Canadian school external reviews from an equivalent or better school is mandatory across the board. Because I am at another university, I don't know much more than that. The department where external letters aren't required (though they are for promotion to full professor) is one where faculty come from a variety of different fields and disciplines, each one with different standards for 'productivity' for tenure purposes. |
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« Last Edit: May 12, 2012, 11:05:19 AM by montrealer »
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missbrowntoyou
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« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2012, 01:19:18 AM » |
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Actually my Australian uni does have the equivalent of a tenure system. Called "confirmation" it takes place 5-6 years into the job; involves piles of documentation on teaching, research and service; requires recommendations from colleagues; and, the committee that reviews this material sends the application out for external examination prior to final approval.
Sound familiar?
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parispundit
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« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2012, 04:37:22 AM » |
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Ifr the US tenure process scares you, the issues are likely more with you than the process
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missbrowntoyou
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« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2012, 05:38:01 AM » |
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IMO the biggest difference between U.S. and Australian uni's isn't the tenure system, but that Australian academic staff are unionised. So you've got a safety net--of sorts--against unfair dismissal and poor mgt. of the probation, confirmation, and promotion system.
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wet_blanket
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« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2012, 04:18:03 PM » |
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Actually my Australian uni does have the equivalent of a tenure system. Called "confirmation" it takes place 5-6 years into the job; involves piles of documentation on teaching, research and service; requires recommendations from colleagues; and, the committee that reviews this material sends the application out for external examination prior to final approval.
Sound familiar?
Same at the New Zealand universities with which I'm familiar, although I think the *first* one happens sooner than 5-6 years in. |
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Wet Blanket will find success. The spreadsheet is the way...
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