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[tired_of_the_midwest]

My husband has a TT job at a state university in the Midwest.  He's in his third year.  I moved up here in March after we got married.  We both are desperate to relocate closer to home, either in the Southeast or Northeast. 

Anyway, there is a TT CC job literally 20 miles from my hometown (where he lived for 6 years and has said numerous times that he would love to move back there.)  advertising for his field.  It would be a small cut in pay, but with the cost of living calculated in, it would be about equal.

The university he's currently at has no grad programs, so losing the ability to teach grad classes (and TAs) would be a non-factor.  The weather is terrible and we are both over 1,000 miles from family. 

My question is, if he took this job at the CC would 4-year institutions ever consider him for another position again?  Would you rather be at a poorly funded state university in a place you hate, or live in a city you love, close to family and friends and teach (which he is very passionate about and has taught a 5/5 load as a VAP) at a CC?

Any insight you could give me would be really appreciated!   

[larryc]

AFTDJ!

[voxprincipalis]

My husband has a TT job at a state university in the Midwest.  He's in his third year.  I moved up here in March after we got married.  We both are desperate to relocate closer to home, either in the Southeast or Northeast. 

Anyway, there is a TT CC job literally 20 miles from my hometown (where he lived for 6 years and has said numerous times that he would love to move back there.)  advertising for his field.  It would be a small cut in pay, but with the cost of living calculated in, it would be about equal.

The university he's currently at has no grad programs, so losing the ability to teach grad classes (and TAs) would be a non-factor.  The weather is terrible and we are both over 1,000 miles from family. 

My question is, if he took this job at the CC would 4-year institutions ever consider him for another position again?  Would you rather be at a poorly funded state university in a place you hate, or live in a city you love, close to family and friends and teach (which he is very passionate about and has taught a 5/5 load as a VAP) at a CC?

Any insight you could give me would be really appreciated!   

Why is it that 9 times out of 10 it is the wife posing the question for the husband? For God's sake, if the husband has any balls at all, let him post his own question. Having the wife ask for him makes him look like a [redacted] [redacted] wimp, and garners no respect at all for either of you.

VP

[tired_of_the_midwest]

My husband has a TT job at a state university in the Midwest.  He's in his third year.  I moved up here in March after we got married.  We both are desperate to relocate closer to home, either in the Southeast or Northeast. 

Anyway, there is a TT CC job literally 20 miles from my hometown (where he lived for 6 years and has said numerous times that he would love to move back there.)  advertising for his field.  It would be a small cut in pay, but with the cost of living calculated in, it would be about equal.

The university he's currently at has no grad programs, so losing the ability to teach grad classes (and TAs) would be a non-factor.  The weather is terrible and we are both over 1,000 miles from family. 

My question is, if he took this job at the CC would 4-year institutions ever consider him for another position again?  Would you rather be at a poorly funded state university in a place you hate, or live in a city you love, close to family and friends and teach (which he is very passionate about and has taught a 5/5 load as a VAP) at a CC?

Any insight you could give me would be really appreciated!   

Why is it that 9 times out of 10 it is the wife posing the question for the husband? For God's sake, if the husband has any balls at all, let him post his own question. Having the wife ask for him makes him look like a [redacted] [redacted] wimp, and garners no respect at all for either of you.

VP

Right, because it has to be that my husband is forcing me to post this question because he doesn't have the "balls" to get on an ANONYMOUS forum and ask it for himself. 

This was my question, not his.  I want to be informed when we sit down to talk about this application.  Imagine that...

Say whatever you want, I don't give a damn.  You're just on my case because this is my first post, I've seen how some of the "regulars" act on here.  'Not impressed and not intimidated.

[msparticularity]

My question is, if he took this job at the CC would 4-year institutions ever consider him for another position again?  Would you rather be at a poorly funded state university in a place you hate, or live in a city you love, close to family and friends and teach (which he is very passionate about and has taught a 5/5 load as a VAP) at a CC?

It seems possible to me that this job could conceivably make him less mobile in future, in part because it is simply harder to get significant amounts of research done amid the demands of life at many CCs. If he is in a field where he needs any kind of research support (lab space, or even access to a good library), a CC may make things even harder than that. It is also sounds as if you would like to be within a fairly limited region; depending upon his field, the idea that he could move to a CC now and have a chance at another job at a 4-year institution within your desired area in the relatively near future may be unrealistic. 

None of this is to say that he shouldn't apply, though, and find out more about the position and the institution--he definitely should, if there's a realistic possibility he might be interested!

[systeme_d_]

My question is, if he took this job at the CC would 4-year institutions ever consider him for another position again?  Would you rather be at a poorly funded state university in a place you hate, or live in a city you love, close to family and friends and teach (which he is very passionate about and has taught a 5/5 load as a VAP) at a CC?

Any insight you could give me would be really appreciated!  

If he applied to and then was offered the CC job, and then decided to take the offer, no, it would not be very likely that he would then be hired later by a 4-year institution, because while working at a CC, it would be next to impossible to carry out and publish good research at the rate a 4 year institution would expect.  If he wanted to keep the job at the CC, he would have to reorder his priorities, and focus on teaching and service.

Working for a CC and working for a state university can be very different things, and a person who enjoys one job would not necessarily enjoy the other.

I think your next question, whether I would rather be at a poorly funded state U in a place I hated, or live in a city I love, close to family and friends, is a false binary.

I worked at a poorly funded state U in a place I hated.  And I stayed there for ten years. Why? I loved the job, and I loved my colleagues, and I liked my students a whole lot, and there were no other advertised jobs in my specific subfield that I found to be really and truly compelling.

But when the right job for me came up, in an institution that was right in line with my values and my commitments, and, thank goodness, it was in a place where I really wanted to live, I applied.  And I got the job.

I'd also advise your husband to wait for his pitch: a job he really wants in a place that his family really wants to live.  And when it comes, he needs to hit that ball out of the park.

[lightningstrike]

If forced to make a choice, I would take a university job in a place I don't like over a CC job in a place that I like. This is not to say one is better than the other. This is just my preference, and it does not apply to everyone.

Some fields and/or some 4-year schools don't care that you have been TT at a CC. Also, if you have been in the 4-year club for three years and do not stay too long in the CC setting, moving back to a 4-year job should not be too much of a problem. The 4-year career killer is the required research to maintain your 4-year profile. A CC position simply does not afford the time and resources for quality sustainable research.

Now, I hope you don't think that a 4-year dude can just waltz in to a 2-year job offer. It's fiercely competitive on all levels, and CC search committees in particular are leery and weary of 4-year types trying to join their ranks.

Stay where you are and bloom where you are planted. The grass is always greener somewhere else.

Yes, newbie posters are red meat. 

[dalekk]

My husband has a TT job at a state university in the Midwest.  He's in his third year.  I moved up here in March after we got married.  We both are desperate to relocate closer to home, either in the Southeast or Northeast. 

Anyway, there is a TT CC job literally 20 miles from my hometown (where he lived for 6 years and has said numerous times that he would love to move back there.)  advertising for his field.  It would be a small cut in pay, but with the cost of living calculated in, it would be about equal.

The university he's currently at has no grad programs, so losing the ability to teach grad classes (and TAs) would be a non-factor.  The weather is terrible and we are both over 1,000 miles from family. 

My question is, if he took this job at the CC would 4-year institutions ever consider him for another position again?  Would you rather be at a poorly funded state university in a place you hate, or live in a city you love, close to family and friends and teach (which he is very passionate about and has taught a 5/5 load as a VAP) at a CC?

Any insight you could give me would be really appreciated!   

Why is it that 9 times out of 10 it is the wife posing the question for the husband? For God's sake, if the husband has any balls at all, let him post his own question. Having the wife ask for him makes him look like a [redacted] [redacted] wimp, and garners no respect at all for either of you.

VP

Go nuts much?   Jesus.

[dr_alcott]

AFTDJ.

That said, I've been at my CC for over ten years, and it's rare that we hire someone away from a TT university position, so I just wanted to echo this:

Now, I hope you don't think that a 4-year dude can just waltz in to a 2-year job offer. It's fiercely competitive on all levels, and CC search committees in particular are leery and weary of 4-year types trying to join their ranks.

So my advice is, when/if your husband applies, make sure he writes a fantastic letter. It's not just working with grad students he'd miss; it's teaching junior- and senior-level courses. He's got to show that he's happy to give that up to focus on first- and second-year courses (and developmental, depending on his discipline). He's got to show that he has experience working with the the variety of students CCs attract: the underprepared, the nontraditional, the smart-but-lost, the ones with extremely challenging life circumstances. If he's not ready to spend a lot of time with these students, he'll be miserable if he does get the job. And he won't even get an interview if his letter can't convince a committee that he knows what he's getting into and really wants to give up his current position for a much different one. In other words, he'll need to demonstrate a passion for the CC mission.

Systeme_D's point that he wouldn't have as much time for research is also worth echoing. It's not impossible to research while teaching at a CC, but he'll likely have much less time and energy for it.

[scion]

Why is it that 9 times out of 10 it is the wife posing the question for the husband? For God's sake, if the husband has any balls at all, let him post his own question. Having the wife ask for him makes him look like a [redacted] [redacted] wimp, and garners no respect at all for either of you.

VP

Seek help.

[corny]

If he applied to and then was offered the CC job, and then decided to take the offer, no, it would not be very likely that he would then be hired later by a 4-year institution, because while working at a CC, it would be next to impossible to carry out and publish good research at the rate a 4 year institution would expect.  If he wanted to keep the job at the CC, he would have to reorder his priorities, and focus on teaching and service.

The 4-year career killer is the required research to maintain your 4-year profile. A CC position simply does not afford the time and resources for quality sustainable research.

Systeme_D's point that he wouldn't have as much time for research is also worth echoing. It's not impossible to research while teaching at a CC, but he'll likely have much less time and energy for it.

I'm pretty sure this has been discussed at length before, but I'm curious about the absoluteness of this distinction, which comes up periodically in discussions of making the transition to CC teaching. I know that standard teaching loads at CCs are usually (at least?) 5/5, and I know that generally research doesn't count for T&P. But if one were coming into such a job from a job at a 4-year school with a 4/4 load, for example, how radical of a change would it be? I understand that the classes are different, the students will need more help, etc., but from the outside it doesn't seem like things would be so radically different that you couldn't still do some research (I'm thinking primarily of humanities research here, that is, not something that depends upon labs and equipment). I ask because I can see myself happily setting into a job at a CC *if* I were still able to do some writing and publishing, even if it were at a slower pace and mostly for my own edification - heck, I can even imagine a scenario where, freed from the need to write and publish a tenure book, I could explore a wider range of research interests in a blissful daze of impractical inquiry. I think I would go stir-crazy if I never got to do such stuff at all, though. I'm teaching a 4/4 load right now, and it doesn't *seem* like tacking one more class onto that load would completely destroy my ability to carve out an hour of writing time two or three days a week. But maybe I'm wrong? Maybe teaching at a CC is really an entirely different realm of experience altogether?

</semi-hijack>

[backontrack]

Just chiming in to say I that I did this.

4 yr TT position, left for a CC position, kept the research going (can be done, even with 5-5 load), and was eventually hired at my current 4 yr institution.

I will add, my former CC is recognized regionally as being excellent, and serves as a feeder school for current 4 yr.  That might have helped.

Also, my current institution may be unusual, but we have hired other CC folks, and have brought several CC folks for campus interviews.

re: semi-hijack
I usually had three preps, although 5 classes, so it is possible to get some research and writing done; it often depended on the service load that semester.  Most research was undertaken during the summer. 

bot

[heptameron]

Dear OP:

I see what you mean about the 'regulars' on this site.  Don't take personally the chastising "advice" of the privileged "wise" senior posters.  

As for the content of your post and the questions you're asking, I think you are wise to try to encourage your husband to apply for the CC job. Ask your husband if he thinks that it is important in his life to make a difference in the lives of students who attend that CC.  If he thinks that he would be motivated to be devoted to the CC students in part because he feels a connection to the community where the CC is located, then suggest that he make that point (in his own way) in his application letter.  

One of my brothers (he's in the field of media studies) took a job at a CC when he finished grad school in part because taking the job meant that he would not have to move, which was important at the time because his wife (who worked in the area and whom he had met while he was in grad school) was going to nursing school and had at least another year to go before finishing her degree.  My brother did not get a lot of research done while working at the CC because of the huge teaching load, but he did publish two articles in about three years.  While working atthe CC, he applied for other jobs once his wife was finishd with her degree.  Several of those applications became on-campus interviews, and he got two offers from 4-year institutions.  And in those situations, he said that one of the things that the faculty said was that they were impressed with the courses he had developed and taught.  He took one of the job offers and he and his wife (who is now working as a nurse) are quite happy at the 4-year institution.  But he says that he actually liked the student body at the CC better than the students he is teaching at the 4-year university because they were more 'real.'  He says the pay is a little better at the 4-year institution and that the library is a lot bigger, but he says he had more friendly colleagues at the CC.

[arty_]

CC experience was discounted in the many tt searches I have sat on (I'm a land grant university). I disagreed with the committee members, but, basically, they really did not consider those applicants as good/polished/professional as ones with other types of university experience. Having taught at a cc myself, I obviously thought this was ridiculous, but, you wanted an answer to your question.  That's the answer at my department/institution combination.

[this_is_my_username]

 I am TT at a CC in a big metro. I love CC teaching, but my intent was originally a small regional public coming out of graduate school. I hit the market at exactly the moment the recession set in, and am lucky to have a job at all.

 I have managed to publish 2 peer-reviewed articles or chapters each year for the previous three years, which is above average in my field. It is a struggle at times to find balance, but I have begun two new projects (I work internationally, so it is even more difficult to find the time). The teaching has been good, and I received a couple of awards.

 Ordinarily I'd say I am a much better candidate now than I was three years ago. So every now and then I apply to a four year regional public that interests me. The surprise (to me) is that I received many more interviews coming out of grad school with than I do now. I'm not sure if that is because I am toiling away in the academia's version of 'minor leagues' (as it has been described to me), or simply if my luster has worn off in an oversaturated field of applicants. I have been told there is a CC 'curse', three years or longer at one and the possibility of jumping becomes remote.

  Take it for what it is worth.