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[cls_greenies]

Greetings.

This is my very first post here, little bit long. Will be very happy to have any responses. Thanks for reading.

My situation is..

1. 5th year student in physical sciences, finished proposal last summer. during the exam, a timeline was suggested 1/2 year to one year to finish. Supervisor doesn't really care about this suggested timeline at all.

2. hostile work environment (won't go into detail), supervisor very difficult to work with (I don't really want to say anything more about my supervisor.. a very painful story)

3. My goal is to really finish ASAP(even a pity diss is OK), but supervisor wants more and more work done. No publication so far (not uncommon in the field).

4. Completely burned out. After finishing up, I will be moving on to a different topic/field. the only reason staying in the program is just to finish and get the degree. My advisor knows that I will be switching fields or go to industry.

I originally planned, after the proposal, to stay with my parents and deal with my health problems, get rest etc for about a year or so then find a postdoc if interested. I am considering jobs in industry as well. However it seems like I might not be able to finish before this summer- which would drive me crazy.

I am considering..

a. Try to find a postdoc/job lined up so that I have a hard deadline, but it would take a lot of time. I have lost interest in any job so far so it would be quite difficult. It will be like, trying to find a job just to get out.

b. Try to argue with my supervisor and try to convey the message that I do not intend to stay another year.
This would involve submitting the draft I am working on to a lower journal, which I don't really care but my supervisor would care a great deal. This could potentially destroy the possibility of getting a reference letter from my supervisor.

c. Try contacting committee members and talk about this problem. There are a few faculty members who are senior to my supervisor. Would this help at all?

d. Diss in my field is just putting work together, so probably my supervisor wouldn't even want to read it. But should I start writing diss, like an hour per day at least? Right now, my supervisor doesn't want me to start writing before I get all the data I need..

I think c+d is OK, but I am not so sure if a or b is..

Again, any comments will be appreciated. Thank you.....

[galactic_hedgehog]

How much research have you actually done?  Do you have enough data and analysis to put into a dissertation or do you need more?  If yes, write, write, write!  Hours a day.

[havesometea]

I don't see why you can't start writing now -- even if you do not have all your data yet. There must be some sections that would not change (laying the groundwork). You should even be able to write rough drafts regarding anticipated data. It seems to me that you should have some ideas of what your data might show. In fact, we're required to do such mental exercises for class assignments. If your results agree with your expectations, you've gotten a headstart on the write-up. If not, at least you're at a point where you've considered the implications of various outcomes and reviewed the relevant concepts. I don't see a downside to beginning writing. Sorry about the situation with your supervisor. It sounds toxic and potentially unsalvageable, no matter what you do or don't do.

[lohai0]

I am on a tight timeline. I like Destination Dissertation-but I am in STEM ed, not STEM. On really bad days, I use written kitten to get me started. I put in at least an hour a day, but I will finish 2 years after comps. That is lightning fast for my field. Another thing that helps me is a writing partner...they don't have to be in your field (though it helps), but they should have the same goals and timeline you do.

[scampster]

b. Try to argue with my supervisor and try to convey the message that I do not intend to stay another year.
This would involve submitting the draft I am working on to a lower journal, which I don't really care but my supervisor would care a great deal. This could potentially destroy the possibility of getting a reference letter from my supervisor.

I'm just a postdoc, so take this FWIW, but often a "pity diss" (as you call it) is the result of experiments that haven't worked out or something related to the project, not writing up a perfectly good project in a weak manner.

It is hard to tell from your posts if your project has worked out or not. Is your advisor insisting on squeezing a higher quality paper out of poor data? Or do you just not want to put in the work to make it a higher quality paper?

Here's the thing - your advisor probably knows that, given your attitude, the only way he/she will get what he needs out of you (a good paper in a good journal, i.e. a return on his investment if he/she has been funding you all this time) is if he holds your defense over you. Because it sounds like once you leave, you will drop this like a hot potato.

I can see talking to your committee members if you think that your advisor is being completely unreasonable in his expectations of how much should be in your dissertation, especially if he is making you go far beyond what was agreed upon in your proposal and signed off on by your committee. Have you done everything you said you would do in your proposal? (Or at least tried to?)

I also agree with the others that you should write even if you don't have all your data yet.

[kron3007]

Sounds like a tough situation.  As I was finishing up my PhD my advisor was on side to help finish quickly, our sticking point was getting the committee members on board (not that any of them were hell bent against it or anything).  One of the big things that helped push it through quickly was that I had a post-doc lined up that had to start by a certain date.  If you can find a job/postdoc and you have a reasonable amount of data, they would be hard pressed to justify holding you back.  Universities like to have their graduates placed and unless your advisor is evil they should also want to see you succeed. 

Another thing you could try is to arrange a committee meeting, show everyone that you have enough data to write it up, and propose your desired time line.  This is what we did, and it really helped get everyone onboard and gave me solid milestones to meet (ie. rough drafts of chapters, etc.).  In your case, your advisor may find it more difficult to justify holding you back if you can make a strong case and have some committee members on your side. 

Ultimately it is your thesis, and I believe you can apply to defend, but of course it is always best to have your advisor on board.

[cls_greenies]

Thanks all for your replies.

To clarify on the status of my project.. basic results are there, but I've been working on improving the quality of data and this is taking way longer than expected. It is tough as I don't know what the exact goals are- it seems like my advisor asks more and more every time I bring in updated data.

On the writing- my advisor specifically wanted me to fully focus on getting better data out as my thesis will be basically recycling the paper. I actually started writing, but stopped a while ago. It sounds like despite my advisor against writing, I should just continue writing thesis as writing always takes longer than expected. I will start putting time into writing..

scamster, thanks for the insight on the psychology of my PI. It makes perfect sense. I had to inform that I want to switch fields in order to get reasonable timeline during the proposal.

kron3007, if I work things out with my advisor, my committee will probably be OK. But again, yes, I will need to make sure that everyone's on the same page. For postdoc or job I want to be more careful this time I do not want to make another mistake like this again. It makes sense that the department/university will want to see me go somewhere..

Thanks again, all..

[kron3007]

kron3007, if I work things out with my advisor, my committee will probably be OK.

What I meant to say is that if you arrange a meeting with your advisor and all committee members you can propose a time line and go over it with all parties involved.  In my case this was to get the consent of the committee, but in your case the committee may help persuade your advisor that you will be able to finish soon and get them to agree to the tentative time line.  Regardless, if you plan on finishing soon you should arrange such a meeting to ensure that you have all of their concerns covered and nothing pops up later in the process.   

[mulerooster]

Oh, how similar are situations are.  But I'm about year or so ahead of you.  Do not do B.  I tried that (but I tried persuading my advisor rather than arguing with him) and it didn't work.  I said over and over again I will not be staying another year.  Well, look, I'm here another year.  And you know what, it's not that big of a deal actually.  What's a few more months when you've already been there so long?  And, if you do B, your advisor is most likely more powerful than you and is just going to convince you that the research is important and can't be submitted to a low journal and he is going to think you aren't motivated if you can't finish up the project the way he wants.

You can try C.  I did that.  I met with all of my committee members individually and explained the situation with my project and tried to get them on my side and agree with my timeline for graduation.  But then when we all met together as a group (with my advisor in the room too) they seemed to not support me as much or back me up.  They just went along with what my advisor said, which was that we couldn't submit the research to a lower journal and we needed to do experiments x, y, and z and that my advisor would be fine with supporting me an extra year so I could get all of this done.  So you can try C, but it might not work out either.  The old buddy system is too strong and may be turned against you if you try C.

I would highly recommend doing A. I swear I could have wrote exactly what you said in A.  I also find it very hard to apply for jobs when I'm not enjoying my current situation.  But as I've been going through the application process I've been figuring out that there is a light at the end of the tunnel and there are exciting opportunities waiting for me once I do finish my PhD.  I have seen many PhD students get their next job lined up and then the committee will let them graduate.  It's an incentive to graduate.  So do it.  In fact, at my school they practically don't let you leave until you have your next job lined up.

Yes, start doing D.  You can always start reading background papers, writing the introduction, getting together an outline, etc.  A grad student the year ahead of me told me I should start writing mine long before the committee gives me the go ahead to write.  I wish I had taken their advice.  I still haven't started writing mine and I have been given the go ahead, but writing a publication for a journal has taken up too much of my time instead.  At least I can use most of the text for this publication in my dissertation.

Good luck.  Keep in touch.  We are in the same boat.

[optimisticfungus]

I also agree with mulerooster (i.e. focus on A and D). My committee was really dragging its heels on letting me finish, despite the fact that I'm the last remaining member of my science cohort and my grant runs out soon. I was even told that lack of funding should not determine when someone graduates! [I practically snorted when my adviser said that to me.] Anyway, I managed to get my committee to set a defense date by sending them 80% of the research chapters in my dissertation. It also helped that I'd been applying for jobs for a few months, every committee member served as a reference in one form or another, and my adviser starting getting phone calls from potential employers.

So, figure out what deadlines you'd have to meet to graduate in the timeframe you want and do everything in your power to show your committee that you deserve to finish. You may also have to start saying "no" to experiments, conferences, etc. that will take your time away from the task at hand. Your committee won't be happy about that, but you can remind them that you're trying to finish by X and that is your number one priority.

[cls_greenies]

kron3007:

I see. I will have individual meetings with the committee members, but maybe it's necessary to arrange a committee + advisor meeting after that. First have to see how they respond individually, I guess. Thanks again.

mulerooster:

Thank you for sharing your experience, it helps a lot especially about c. I always tend to forget about the buddy system.. I am still a bit hesitant to start serious searching for post doc position, but will start searching anyways. It will be little bit tricky as my advisor is against applying for job for now, but again searching will be OK.

I am sorry to hear that you are in a similar situation and hope you finish in no time. Hang in there.

optimisticfungus:

Writing up the thesis and presenting the draft would surely help convince the committee that you're ready to go. Thank you.

===============

Thanks again for everyone for the comments. I will be concentrating on A and D, but will be doing C as well for updating them on my research and getting advice from them about career path/post doc search. It just give me a great relief to have a list of actions to take- feels less stuck. Thank you..