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[msparticularity]

This is terribly field-dependent.  In nursing, it's not uncommon to see female candidates move out of their postdocs into a PI position in their mid- to late-40s, and even early 50s.  Why?  They've already had one career as a clinician before they entered a PhD programme.  In addition, they may have taken one or more mat leaves.

Yup, true in education as well--although more typically the move is made in the early 40s. I think this may be the pattern in a lot of professional fields.

[betterslac]

Therefore, is it reasonable for me to conclude that age discrimination within the academic job market is common despite its illegality? 
Should I conclude that age discrimination is illegal but that faculty on search committees are willing to do it anyway because they don't care about federal laws? Apparently it is not due to faculty ignorance, since, according to the professional organizations, all search committees know the laws.

No, no, and no.  There is nothing reasonable, conclusive, or apparent here.  Unless you have access to a time machine, worry about something you can control.

+1

If this is representative of your reasoning skills, OP, then age is the least of your worries regarding employment.

[eddyman]

Therefore, is it reasonable for me to conclude that age discrimination within the academic job market is common despite its illegality? 
Should I conclude that age discrimination is illegal but that faculty on search committees are willing to do it anyway because they don't care about federal laws? Apparently it is not due to faculty ignorance, since, according to the professional organizations, all search committees know the laws.

No, no, and no.  There is nothing reasonable, conclusive, or apparent here.  Unless you have access to a time machine, worry about something you can control.

+1

If this is representative of your reasoning skills, OP, then age is the least of your worries regarding employment.

+1 and you made me chuckle.  Well said.

[fedscholar]

Hmmm.. which is more pathetic?

A frustrated and nervous job seeker grasping at straws on a tough topic?

Or a (presumably) employed, senior person insulting the job hunter for a ham-fisted post?

If you think the rest of us are impressed betterslac, perhaps your critical thinking skills could use a tune up too.

[fiona]

Yeah, you're all bad people. Your dog's ugly, too.

But do learn to spell DIscrimination.

The Fiona

[liberta]

The OP's reasoning is picking up on the prevalence of a trend that is underestimated.  Age discrimination is built into academic capitalism. Academics don't often want to talk about the prevalence of age discrimination (or other types of discrimination).  Many academics don't even know that it's illegal to factor a candidate's age into their assessment of the candidate's qualifications.  Many academics don't even care about it.  How many individuals replied to this thread before the legal issue was even mentioned?  How many higher ed departments are staffed with faculty who consider it their prerogative to adhere to laws or to conveniently ignore them? 
And what about msparticularity's comments concerning generation discrimination? Isn't generation-identity discrimination closely related to age discrimination?

[icicles]

Just a minor point: in high COL areas, age discrimination may be less of a factor if the person has worked in industry and may be able to afford a house and stay longer in the area. Younger junior faculty with $$$ loans and no savings may try to publish their way out before they starve.

[liberta]

Are we now talking about discriminating against candidates on the basis of their net worth? 

[punchnpie]

Yes, it's definitely a factor for R-1s and SLACs.  R-1s want someone who will be subject to domination. amd who has a history of being an RA in grad school.  This means young and of mediocre talents fairly often.  They also like the "bright shiny penny."

This may be true for some fields (I'm thinking comp sci, and science fields may also want the youngster), but not all. In my professional field, many come to the PhD after a career as a professional in the field. Another group, like myself, find the field a comfortable place for 2nd career.

I was attracted to my small department because the people were around my age and not twitchy little young 'uns.

[betterslac]

Hmmm.. which is more pathetic?

A frustrated and nervous job seeker grasping at straws on a tough topic?

Or a (presumably) employed, senior person insulting the job hunter for a ham-fisted post?

If you think the rest of us are impressed betterslac, perhaps your critical thinking skills could use a tune up too.

I was trying, in my own sweet way, to help the OP snap out of the crazy. Emailing professional groups about policies on age discrimination in this fashion is just strange, and then to jump to the conclusion that age discrimination is rampant is even stranger.

Look, we have this conversation every few months when someone has the bright idea that it has never been discussed before and that the reason why they are having little luck on the job market is because everyone must be discriminating against them. No, it's probably not the case. Everyone except those in a very few undersupplied fields are having a tough time.

Age is not a factor unless you make it one. Put in your cover letter that you are retiring from your real job and see this teaching thing as way to wind down, take it easy, relax for a few years and make some easy money by working a few hours a month (I've seen this from lawyers) and you'll see your application slide quickly into the round file. Act like you are interested in the job and are eager to engage in activities expected of full-time faculty members and all other things being equal (i.e., it isn't the case that your Ph.D. is  20 years old and you have no publications or teaching experience) you have just as good a shot at a job as anyone, even better if through experience you've gained confidence and skill in interviewing and can spin what you have been doing previously into positives.

[msparticularity]

Age is not a factor unless you make it one.

I think this is just nonsensical. Of course age is a factor--as are academic pedigree, personal appearance, race/ethnicity, gender/sexual orientation, interactive style (intro or extravert), and a host of others. All of these can and do contribute to the the ways in which others view us. All of them are a part of who we are, and expression of them is only to some degree under our own control. As with being an introvert, one can manage the way in which one's age comes across--kind of--but we cannot prevent others from "reading" it in their own peculiar ways, and placing their own interpretations on it.

As to the wider issue of discrimination: decisions get made for all kinds of idiosyncratic reasons. Sure in some cases there are individuals and departments that systematically discriminate against particular categories (women, minorities, etc.) over the long term, and this is what campus EEOC offices are there to deal with. On an individual and not-so-systematic level, hiring depends upon a range of neat and objective criteria, along with the muddier perception of "fit." The array of things that can inform that judgment is truly dizzying, and can certainly include judgments based upon personal interpretations: "She is a young woman and will certainly want children; s/he is young and very attractive and may flirt with our undergraduates; s/he is a person of color and/or a member of a religion that is not locally well-represented, and will not feel welcome here in our community; s/he is older and seems less energetic than we need our new person to be; s/he is a flashy dresser and clearly is not serious about his/her academic career."

Judgments are everywhere, all the time; just look around here for 5 minutes. It doesn't do us any good at all to obsess about their existence. We can think about whether there are things in our own presentation that we might like try to manage a bit, sure, but we cannot control them.

[ruralguy]

Yeah, I can't really say, with a straight face, that these things, Msparticularity, don't get uttered by search committees. In fact, I have heard every single one of these things uttered  in one sc meeting or another (including some that were directed at me during my own search---hint: nothing related to looks or flirting). However, there really are those of us who really really try to be about as objective as we can be, but even that is filled with its own problems (such as, do you then just hire someone who has "more" of something, or do you look for quality? If you look for quality, as most do, you've then started to lose objectivity again). Again, all I can say is that my SLAC has hired its fair share of "junior" middle-agers (or even past middle age). This may or may not be in proportion to the number who applied, and we may have very well slapped down various women or people of color to get to that one old dude (although we have hired some older women)!

[fedscholar]

Good to hear some candid opinions.  I was only trying to point out that the OP was / is not logically impaired, and shooting fish in a barrel (bagging on flailing job seekers) is not very befitting. Since, I am naming names, mleok's page long screed / profile on Weather123 raised the hair on my back. Sure the questions are wooly, but come on, we're clueless job seekers in an online forum. I do agree that some of us need a wack upside the head, but sometimes things lapse into schadenfreude and ingroup/outgroup cliqueyness.

Back on topic: To reiterate, the impression I have is that graduation is continuous, but hiring is largely generational.  So, it is quite likely that some people will be out of sinc with the age expectations, and this would likely not work in their favor. There are many reasons behind the generational pattern, and I would not say the ageism is explicit or even intentional. It seems more like tradition. The trainwrecks started when local, regional, and national markets began to saturate, and when mandatory retirement was abandoned. Total mismatch between supply and demand. Even many of those willing to engage in a nationwide search are enduring years on the market. Some undoubtedly use that time to full effect and have tenure dossier-level achievements upon hire. Others, for myriad personal and professional reasons will not be able to achieve so much academically in a series of temp. or  alternate full time jobs. Any of these people may be sending in applications in a given year, because they all are qualified by historical measures, and it was likely one of their core life goals. It is pretty clear that they will not all be successful, for as many reasons. They will draw their own opinions why, and cope accordingly.

So, I don't really see the crazy in the OP, just pondering and soul searching, with good reason.

[womanofproperty]

So, I don't really see the crazy in the OP, just pondering and soul searching, with good reason.

As someone who was hired for my first t-t position at the age of 52, I can say that yes, age discrimination (like lots of other types of discrimination) exists.

Worrying about it, though, is absolutely a waste of time and energy. When you are preparing for an interview, it's the last thing that should be your mind. Focus on enjoying the opportunity to meet people, present your ideas to faculty and students, and talk shop (make sure you find out as much as possible about the campus).

OP, I hope your interview goes/went well.

[icicles]

Are we now talking about discriminating against candidates on the basis of their net worth? 

I certainly don't think it's right--it's just another one of those factors that, when a trend has happened time and again at a university, search committees remember when making decisions. "Will the high COL drive this person away?" I was posting this as a reason an older candidate might come across as a plus compared to the "young, fresh, ABD" everyone assumes is the golden child courted by R1s.

I hate this kind of discrimination, and I think hiring in general can bring out the worst in academics ("let's all extrapolate about people because that's what we do in research").