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[litsock]

I met with a trusted* colleague and to ask about several things on my mind:
1. Primarily: how a series of bad evaluations (over four years) in one area--two classes I've taught several times--might affect tenure. I have, as you might imagined asked this question before, but I just got back the latest set of numbers.
2. More Generally: tenure chances.

The good news is that everyone knows the area/classes is really hard, and that many people know I've put in effort and that's what counts. [Also: I think everyone is sick of me asking about it.] The bad news--which I knew already--is that my research is becoming a concern. Maybe it's not all for the right reasons, but it is becoming a concern nonetheless.

Then, I decided to drop the whole "My spouse has an excellent offer elsewhere and I got an interview at a near-by school, but my job would be a very bad job if I do get the offer" thing.

This is where the question part of the post comes in. Have I been advised to cut my losses? Or, am I just another insecure TT person?
She told me to seriously think about taking the bad job if it comes up. Or, to consider moving and being an adjunct or doing something else with my life. I was on leave last semester and have to teach here this fall or owe back salary, and she even said that it would be worth it.
I can't tell if "becoming a concern" is a nice way of saying "probably not recoverable from."

And then I got a long motivational speech about doing what you want to do in life. Is this job making you happy? What makes you happy? Would doing something else make you happy? If you can't do research anymore, is that okay? Would you rather just be an Independent Scholar instead of that teaching load?

Some additional context: she had dealt with a two-body problem as well. Her partner ended up trailing and never entered academia in the end. But, my colleague eventually got tenure. The two of us have talked about this a lot. She knows my spouse is pretty much at a dead end here. He has a job he can keep, but the industry he trained to be in is not located here, and he now has an offer. So, she does know that we're at a "risk it all on tenure" or "let him try his luck" place in our lives. Also, obviously, she knows we cared enough to do all these applications in the first place. I just didn't think this job would be this bad (high teaching load + mission creep + they are going to pay me WHAT !?!).

This is someone who talks a lot about being a straight talker. Was this straight talk? Or a Very Stern warning? Or just general relationship advice?

* I do not trust myself with figuring out who can be trusted. So the star is there just to say "I think I can trust her." Also, because I'm paranoid I'm dusting off this old sock.

[larryc]

No matter what she was saying it is still N =1. What are the standards for tenure and are you meeting them?

[litsock]

No matter what she was saying it is still N =1. What are the standards for tenure and are you meeting them?

"Excellent research." All of my immediate colleagues have had books written by the deadline, but few have had them in hand. The number of articles is very variable (from 1-4+). But, the letters have to be very good about the quality of the research, so the reviewers need to see the full book and know it's gotten a press and peer reviewed. But, one colleague recently got tenured with only a rejected manuscript and two excellent/influential articles.

My department is full of people whose work doesn't involve publication and people in article disciplines. Where I got snagged in the third year review was not having articles out while writing the book, which has annoyed my tenured, immediate colleagues. I'm getting a book chapter out right now, and have an article that needs completing, and have an excellent press interested in my book, and have a book proposal, and about 2/3rds of the book drafted.

Where immediate colleagues = people who go to the same conferences as I do, and whose degree is most similar to mine.

[bookishone]

It sounds like tenure standards are blurry at your institution, which can be dangerous. It also sounds to me like your colleague is trying to steer you to a softer landing elsewhere. She may be worried about your chances in the tenure process. The best way to counter this, if you want to stay, is to write and publish the he11 out of the next couple of years.

It sounds like she is also worried that you're not happy in your job, e.g. maybe not as good a fit as you'd like. Is this true, or is it a misperception? If a misperception, think about how you can correct it.

[sugaree]

In spite of (or, perhaps because of?) the fuzzy standards are people routinely denied tenure at your school? If so, this might have been a "get out now" kind of talk. If folks typically get tenure - even with mediocre teaching evals and limited publications - then perhaps her advice was more about your two-body problem then about your future possible tenure denial?

If you and your SO have an opportunity to be together, even if the position you're interviewing looks worse on paper, mightn't that be worth it? Also, worse-on-paper doesn't necessarily mean it's a worse position (given what you've described about how you feel about your current job, which doesn't sound very enthusiastic to begin with).

[msparticularity]

From your description, I would interpret her comments as an attempt to help you weigh the odds. You said:

So, she does know that we're at a "risk it all on tenure" or "let him try his luck" place in our lives.

I believe she may have been trying to tell you that risking all for tenure is not looking like a sure--or even a really strong--bet right now, and that you may well be better off letting your husband try his luck. I would guess from all that you have said about your research development that your tenure bid is looking potentially contentious, given that you have not published anything that would give the department an assurance as to your stature as a researcher in the wider field. I also wonder whether you need to be concerned about a non-renewal before tenure--is your appointment guaranteed through your tenure year?

[ruralguy]

Nobody wants to tell it to you straight BEFORE the actual tenure decision, and then they have to. If you want this person to be more specific in a reply, then your question has to be more specific.

To me, she's trying to be nice, but if you read between the lines, I'm afraid she's telegraphing that you are at risk for not getting tenure
(serious risk, not just normal risk).

All I can say is that bad evals + questions about your research (I am not saying either is valid---I am just spitting back what you said) is not the sure fire formula for tenure ANYWHERE.

You absolutely have to think of a solid way to improve both.

Look, you know the answer to the tenure question. Its "maybe you'll get it , but it sure is questionable". So, instead of polling the senior faculty on your tenure chances, I suggest you search for true mentors who can get you on the "rags to riches" plan for either your evals or a publication or both. if you also want to apply for jobs and have your husband do the same, then go ahead, and then take another job, if the offer seems reasonable.

[larryc]

I agree that your tenure seems doubtful. Will your book be out well before the decision is made?

[litsock]

In talking this over with the few people I can in "real life," I'm beginning to think that I am reading a little too much into it. It was a warning, a mentor communicating support and specific advise. "If you stay here, head down to get tenure and make it worthwhile" and "there is no shame in leaving." I found out after the talk that a tenured colleague is resigning for job-related mental health reasons, and it is possible that some of the questions I was asked had more to do with his situation than with mine. (The mentor and the other colleague went to graduate school together.)

I should clarify that for some reason I listed what I have in the pipeline and not the sum total of my publications. I passed my review, and unless something awful happens I'll be renewed up until tenure. (And an odd part of my situation is that I have to work at least next Fall because of my leave contract from this year.) The tenure rate at my institution is good (it's a large public RU/VH), but there is a level of quality over quantity where a certain number of publications is not a guarantee. The most standard advise is 4 articles and one book, but honestly the only person I know who did exactly that just got denied. We also had a denial in my department (not my program) this year, and it was based on the quality of the work. Teaching is more important within my department than in most other departments, from what I have been told, which is why it's been freaking me out.

Time to put my head down, do this interview right, meet the people at what might be my new school (a public RU/V only a remarkable 20 miles from my husband's potential new job), and write the hell out of this book chapter. But I would still appreciate other comments.

[litsock]

Ugh, hit Quote instead of Modify. Apologies. I was trying to add this:

I should clarify that for some reason I listed what I have in the pipeline and not the sum total of my publications. I have two articles, one that is cited and assigned in classes and one that just got mentioned as ground breaking in our top sub-discipline journal. (This is a huge source of stress because it came out my first year here and I think I missed the window for the book follow-up to be "ground-breaking.")

[spork]

Unless your book reveals how to make a vacuum cleaner violate the first law of thermodynamics, I doubt it would have ever fallen into the "groundbreaking" category.

You need to look at this from the standpoint of your marriage and your financial security. Sounds like your husband has a job offer that pays more than what he currently earns, relates to his industrial talents, and which may make him more marketable in the private sector in the future. If you stay where you are, he gets none of this. If you move, you get at least three years in another academic job, during which you publish books and articles, enhancing your tenure chances in the new job -- which could be a better job in certain respects than what you have now -- and which makes you more marketable for other, possibly better jobs. And both of you might be happier with each other due to new work environments.

BTW, a person who constantly asks "what am I doing wrong?" regarding teaching can translate as "this person is doing wrong" in other people's heads.

[litsock]

Thanks again. I am going to this job interview in good faith, and my husband's company is flying him out as well. So, we'll get to feel out the area together. I honestly want my attitude to be as accurate as possible about the job I have before I get there, not after.

You need to look at this from the standpoint of your marriage and your financial security. Sounds like your husband has a job offer that pays more than what he currently earns, relates to his industrial talents, and which may make him more marketable in the private sector in the future. If you stay where you are, he gets none of this.

But, if he stays in his current position he can still do this after I get denied tenure. Not ideal, but it is not cutting him out of the loop. He could have applied for academic jobs here but decided he didn't want to work at a school with a 4/4 load, and my school is the only R1 in the area. He can't go back to the academy, and doesn't want to. Now, I'm looking at a 4/4 load.

If you move, you get at least three years in another academic job, during which you publish books and articles, enhancing your tenure chances in the new job -- which could be a better job in certain respects than what you have now -- and which makes you more marketable for other, possibly better jobs. And both of you might be happier with each other due to new work environments.

The fear of the unknown! I agree with most of what you said, but on paper it is a much worse job. The biggest issue is the the course load: I'll be moving from 3/2 to 4/4. It is a research institution, but my potential department just cut all of the graduate degrees in my program. Indeed, they are interested in me because of my history of successful teaching in lower-division GE requirements, the main thing they still teach. I'm sad about giving up the research, and probably the book (although I'd publish articles from the chapters). No graduate advising is fine, my program now is small and people come to work with our one Big Name. The much bigger issue is that I don't know what it will be like to teach 4/4. My husband fears I'll hate it: I think I honestly don't know. Teaching majors is what has been driving me crazy, and I'll still be doing that.

(Under my normal name, I should write a post about how to write a cover letter to get an interview for a job obviously much "worse" on paper than your current one. My adviser also went to school with someone in the department, and turned me onto the job because they just lost 3 faculty and kept only 1 line.)

BTW, a person who constantly asks "what am I doing wrong?" regarding teaching can translate as "this person is doing wrong" in other people's heads.

Yes yes yes, thanks for the reminder. "Luckily," one of my big complaints is how isolated I feel at this job, so there are not a lot of people to talk to about this. What I'm hoping for is loving my potential new department's culture so much that it is a clear decision. If I get the offer!

[oatmeal]

OP--It is hard to interpret comments, but my reading is that you might have received the advice in your subject heading. But, it might also be that the colleague wants you to show measurable improvements so that you will get tenure (or at least that you will be a strong candidate for tenure). You only have one source at the moment even though it is a trusted colleague. Have you been through the third-year review and is there anything in writing, in terms of necessary improvements (you mentioned year four, so I assume you have) before the tenure decision. Have you made those improvements or can you at least prove you have tried to do so, in measurable ways? Do you want to stay in your current position or would you rather move? Good luck to you.

[glowdart]

Know that you don't have to give up research because you're on a 4/4.  You just need to be more strategic and accept that you won't be publishing at an R1 rate.  But, if I may say something potentially painful, if your "research is becoming a concern," then it sounds like you might not be publishing at an R1 rate right now.  Maybe the shift in focus would be good for you?  The gen eds which you enjoy and are good at (if I'm reading the above correctly) will still be part of this new job, and the majors will be a different group of students and quite possibly more enjoyable at the new place, and the research pressure should be off unless this is a 4/4 with unrealistic expectations.  There are threads around where we're bandied about ways of staying research active on a 4/4.  Those will help if you do end up taking the job. 

Mostly, don't feel like you have to give up on the dream of getting the book out because of the 4/4.   

Good luck with your interview and the decision. 

[theodosia]

Also, as for the teaching load, see the previous discussion about teaching 3 courses a semester with 3 different preps versus teaching 4 courses with 2--or even 1--prep.  Sometimes, it's not necesarily the number of courses that makes the difference between what feels like a managable as opposed to a crushing teaching load, but the number of preps. 

Just my two cents--and something to keep in mind about your prospective new position.