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[seniorscholar]

And, like saying "I really want this job" is silly, opening your cover letter with "I was really excited to see your advertisement in Basketweaving Job List because it would be the perfect job for me" is equally stupid (but many people write versions of it.) Once again, repeat in unison, "The search committee is looking for people whose skills and experience fit the needs of the department; it is not trying to make you happy and does not care whether or not you are excited." (The latter probably applies to at least 200 of the 350 people who applied to our ad this fall.)

[txgalprof]

Search committee members: Don't be jerks.

Applicants: Don't be idiots.

This

[untenured]

Search committee members: Don't be jerks.

Applicants: Don't be idiots.

This

This is of course true.  The more detailed guidance, not offered merely as a rant, will hopefully assist job seekers in interacting with search committees.

Also, sometimes search committee members do unusual or seemingly unnecessary things.  The committee might be full of wierd people, or they just might be constrained by forces outside the candidates purview.

Here's an example.  Yesterday I learned that if we ask a question of a candidate, HR requires us to ask that question to all candidates.  So we might ask something like, "Do you see yourself saying in Florida for the long-term?" to someone who obviously has lived their all their lives.  That might not be the best example, but you get the idea.

[txgalprof]

Also, sometimes search committee members do unusual or seemingly unnecessary things.  The committee might be full of wierd people, or they just might be constrained by forces outside the candidates purview.

Yes, I was told my a committee recently that they couldn't join me for dinner the second night and I should eat on my own due to HR requirements... so you never know....

[greenleaf]

Thanks for posting, as one among usually 300 or so applicants it's nice to hear the perspective of being on the SC and perceptions of objectives, responses, etc. I'm having fun imagining the ridiculous extremes HR could take in requiring a question or scenario that was perfectly appropriate for one candidate be applied to all, resulting in absurd and awkward exchanges. I think I've probably been asked a few of those questions now that I think about it.

[untenured]

This is only my second search committee, but I'm learning fast.  SC members aren't typically just out to be jerks.  They are busy.  While the application is a constant concern to you, for me it is one of fifty that I have to process and manage at a later date while dealing with all kinds of unrelated problems.

I also have HR breathing down my neck.  They constrain our behavior in all kinds of ways.  I even feel more defensive when speaking with nice candidates because I have to be so careful in what I say and not say.

Here's one conversation I remember:

Applicant: What are my chances?

What I Must Say: We will choose the applicant that best fits the qualifications listed in the job application.  As the application process is not complete, I cannot assess an individual's candidacy.

What I Want to Say: You really don't have much chance.  Odds are we are going to receive an application with more than one semester of teaching experience and one publication.

No fun.

[polly_mer]

I also have HR breathing down my neck.  They constrain our behavior in all kinds of ways.  I even feel more defensive when speaking with nice candidates because I have to be so careful in what I say and not say.

Here's one conversation I remember:

Applicant: What are my chances?

What I Must Say: We will choose the applicant that best fits the qualifications listed in the job application.  As the application process is not complete, I cannot assess an individual's candidacy.

What I Want to Say: You really don't have much chance.  Odds are we are going to receive an application with more than one semester of teaching experience and one publication.

No fun.

What?  You didn't take that candidate for task for asking an unreasonable question?  That's interesting in light of your first post.  I will also take you slightly to task for listing a bunch of points in your first post that do need context and explanation to be useful to eager, but clueless, job applicants.  Paulsa did a good job of pointing out that if people are making those mistakes, then they need much better guidance than a blanket "don't say this" without examples of "do this instead".   You explained that nicely in a later post, but why wasn't that in the first post to help the students?  Should we take that as an indication of how you teach?  Probably not, so give the candidates a slight break.

As a candidate who has served on search committees, I do love playing "HR made you say that" spotting.  It adds a bit of information on how bureaucratic a place is.  Asking a reasonable list of questions and saying, "I know you just touched on this, but could you expand?", is reasonable.  Asking the Florida question of a native Floridian is weird.  Even weirder is not prefacing it with "This is the standard question so I have to ask it".

[atlchemist]

Gosh, I am a newbie on the job market and would never dream of asking a SC member what my chances were. That is really unprofessional.

[polly_mer]

Gosh, I am a newbie on the job market and would never dream of asking a SC member what my chances were. That is really unprofessional.

It's unprofessional to those who have the perspective necessary to gauge professional/unprofessional. 

The asking will feel very natural to people who have only gone on one or two interviews, spent most of two days with this nice person, and think of the process as somewhere between a courtship and a friendship in the early stages.  Have you never asked a potential new friend something like "Are we going to see each other again next week?"  Have you never asked a potential romance something like "Are we going to be serious or is this just casual dating?"  The question isn't weird in that context, but is wrong in the job context.  However, to know it's wrong requires the perspective on why it's wrong or the experience of someone saying, "don't do that".

[atlchemist]

Gosh, I am a newbie on the job market and would never dream of asking a SC member what my chances were. That is really unprofessional.

It's unprofessional to those who have the perspective necessary to gauge professional/unprofessional. 

The asking will feel very natural to people who have only gone on one or two interviews, spent most of two days with this nice person, and think of the process as somewhere between a courtship and a friendship in the early stages.  Have you never asked a potential new friend something like "Are we going to see each other again next week?"  Have you never asked a potential romance something like "Are we going to be serious or is this just casual dating?"  The question isn't weird in that context, but is wrong in the job context.  However, to know it's wrong requires the perspective on why it's wrong or the experience of someone saying, "don't do that".

I see what you're saying, and I'll be the first to admit that I can be awkward in social situations. (I am a scientist; what can I say?) But this is not a social situation. And anyone who cannot discern the difference between a social situation and a professional situation needs to seek out some guidance in the form of a mentor, a forum, or a book.

My research advisor has been minimally helpful in my job search. He clearly wrote me a strong recommendation letter (I don't think I would have been invited for interviews without one), but he leads a large research group and doesn't have the time to personally mentor me in my job search. So I have sought out other mentors in my department who have more experience with hiring teachers and with being on the market themselves in the recent past.

I'm not saying I've done everything right; not at all. I have made some gaffes in my campus interviews in my effort to be friendly and not too formal and awkward. But there are some questions and comments that seem clearly off-limits to me.

[polly_mer]

I'm not saying I've done everything right; not at all. I have made some gaffes in my campus interviews in my effort to be friendly and not too formal and awkward. But there are some questions and comments that seem clearly off-limits to me.

You seem to have some good awareness and that has paid off for you in getting interviews,  if I remember correctly.

However, I can tell you from experience that not everyone shares your perspective on this particular topic and they won't know until they get that mentoring.  Those people may not know they need mentoring until someone points out that they do.  After all, they have a doctorate and are good students, so why wouldn't this work out?  People don't know what they don't know until something smacks them in the face.

[voxprincipalis]

I'm not saying I've done everything right; not at all. I have made some gaffes in my campus interviews in my effort to be friendly and not too formal and awkward. But there are some questions and comments that seem clearly off-limits to me.

Sure. And just as you assume that everyone shares your understanding of those things, other people assume that certain other things are equally immediately obvious to everyone. Such as not having the expectation of getting a TT job if you're not willing to leave your immediate geographical area, for instance. The sort of "OMG, what are they thinking?" response that you may have to people asking what their chances are is exactly the same sort of "OMG, what are they thinking?" response that some people have to your combination of expecting to get a TT while being unwilling to do anything more than a local search.

VP

[atlchemist]

I'm not saying I've done everything right; not at all. I have made some gaffes in my campus interviews in my effort to be friendly and not too formal and awkward. But there are some questions and comments that seem clearly off-limits to me.

Sure. And just as you assume that everyone shares your understanding of those things, other people assume that certain other things are equally immediately obvious to everyone. Such as not having the expectation of getting a TT job if you're not willing to leave your immediate geographical area, for instance. The sort of "OMG, what are they thinking?" response that you may have to people asking what their chances are is exactly the same sort of "OMG, what are they thinking?" response that some people have to your combination of expecting to get a TT while being unwilling to do anything more than a local search.

VP

Wow, you don't forget anything. FWIW, I am not expecting to get a TT job. Only 2/8 jobs I applied for and 1/3 interviews are TT. I am perfectly happy with a contract position (one of the schools "does not do tenure") or a lecture-track position.

[polly_mer]

I'm not saying I've done everything right; not at all. I have made some gaffes in my campus interviews in my effort to be friendly and not too formal and awkward. But there are some questions and comments that seem clearly off-limits to me.

Sure. And just as you assume that everyone shares your understanding of those things, other people assume that certain other things are equally immediately obvious to everyone. Such as not having the expectation of getting a TT job if you're not willing to leave your immediate geographical area, for instance. The sort of "OMG, what are they thinking?" response that you may have to people asking what their chances are is exactly the same sort of "OMG, what are they thinking?" response that some people have to your combination of expecting to get a TT while being unwilling to do anything more than a local search.

VP

Wow, you don't forget anything.

It was within the past month and fairly memorable.  As someone wrote recently on another thread, anything you write here is contributing to your persona.  If you don't want people to know and use that knowledge, then don't write under the same moniker all the time.

[glowdart]

I'm not saying I've done everything right; not at all. I have made some gaffes in my campus interviews in my effort to be friendly and not too formal and awkward. But there are some questions and comments that seem clearly off-limits to me.

Sure. And just as you assume that everyone shares your understanding of those things, other people assume that certain other things are equally immediately obvious to everyone. Such as not having the expectation of getting a TT job if you're not willing to leave your immediate geographical area, for instance. The sort of "OMG, what are they thinking?" response that you may have to people asking what their chances are is exactly the same sort of "OMG, what are they thinking?" response that some people have to your combination of expecting to get a TT while being unwilling to do anything more than a local search.

VP

Wow, you don't forget anything.

It was within the past month and fairly memorable.  As someone wrote recently on another thread, anything you write here is contributing to your persona.  If you don't want people to know and use that knowledge, then don't write under the same moniker all the time.

And, there are a few forumites who have such awesome and terrifying powers of recall that I sometimes want to start a "Do You Remember the Fora Cage-Match" thread.