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[mozman]

"Students shouldn't bring their kids to class"
http://chronicle.com/article/This-Course-Is-Adults-Only/130674/

Seriously, what is this bint's problem?  Those who follow me on the fora know I am usually not one to overly advocate for the student position, but I have never had a problem when graduate students or undergrads have needed to bring their kids to class.  

She seems pissed that permission wasn't asked or advance notification given.  Usually, those kids are there because something in the parent's daily schedule got cocked up - its not something that would be known in advance.

In my experience, the kids are almost never disruptive, and if they are, the parent takes them out.  

Hell, once daycare was unexpectedly closed due to a flooding emergency and I had to take my 7 month old daughter with me to class.  She woke up and wanted out of the stroller, so I just held her and continued with my lecture.

I have respect for students who are also parents. This teacher just sounds like a b*tch who takes herself too seriously to me.

[cgfunmathguy]

I find the last paragraph to be most telling.

Perhaps I should just be glad that only once has a graduate student brought in a visitor who wasn't a child. Years ago when I was a new untenured faculty member, a student brought her mother to class. The mother's determination to share her unsolicited comments was far worse than having two toddlers in the room.

I'm going to ask a somewhat silly question that the author completely glosses over. She complains that she wasn't notified ahead of time. What if the student did send an email beforehand stating that the student's children would be accompanying the student that night? Would she then allow it, or would she point to the syllabus and say "Sorry, but 'no visitors' means 'no visitors'"? It seems silly to get bent out of shape about the lack of forewarning if you're not going to allow the situation to occur. Maybe she wants to say that, but feels she's been denied the chance because of the lack of a warning. If so, that's easy to fix. All she would need to do is verbally announce to the student (before entering, preferably, but as entry is being made due to tardiness would also work) that she's sorry but visitors aren't allowed in class.

Having taught many non-traditional students in the past, I think the author is making a mountain from a molehill. From the article, it appears that the class meets one night per week for several hours. Do you really want graduate students missing a full week's worth of material and discussion because the babysitter got sick? She noted that several students had backup arrangements. Fine, but not everyone does. If you're new to an area or have no friends or family in the area (besides your cohort), there are no backup plans to be made. You don't know enough people to be able to make this work.

This professor needs to realize that "Life Happens!!" and that people will respond to disruptions in the routine differently. Thus, she needs to help the situation rather than complain about it. Maybe, she could even propose a solution to her chair for the problem at hand. Instead, she's complaining without trying to solve the problem.

A possible solution would be having people (undergrads in the major/education/social work?) available in the evening who would be willing to babysit for a small fee per child. That would allow the parents whose plans fell through for a babysitter on a particular night an opportunity to still come to class without receiving the stink-eye from a professor who just doesn't get it sometimes.

[erzuliefreda]

We are not allowed to allow children in class because our university's insurance covers only enrolled students and faculty/staff. Even when we had furlough days a couple of years ago, we were told to stay away ourselves because any injury would not be covered by the school insurance that day.

[rebelgirl]

We are not allowed to allow children in class because our university's insurance covers only enrolled students and faculty/staff. Even when we had furlough days a couple of years ago, we were told to stay away ourselves because any injury would not be covered by the school insurance that day.

This.  If you let students bring kids to class - I hope your institution won't throw you under the bus if something goes wrong. 

I've let students bring children when day care falls through, etc. - I'm breaking the rules and know I am running a risk to help a student keep up.  My administrators are pretty humane people.  Still, I hope I never have a liability test case bite me because I tried to help a student deal with an unexpected child care situation. 

I was surprised the writer of the article didn't bring up liability.  I can relate to her frustration with parents whose attitude is "deal with it."  At minimum the student should give the professor as much heads up as possible and take the kid out of the room if there's a disruption.  The student who "shrugged" when the kids were disruptive would not be someone I'd let stay in the class.  That student evidently didn't care if his kids disrupted other students.  And disrupting other students' learning is not his right.

[chaosbydesign]

I personally agree with the writer of the article. Kids don't belong in graduate classes and having them there could only be a distraction for the other students in the class. I'm sure a lot of people will attack me for this, but I think that if students' childcare plans fall through they should skip class, not bring their kids with them.

[eumaios]

We are not allowed to allow children in class because our university's insurance covers only enrolled students and faculty/staff. Even when we had furlough days a couple of years ago, we were told to stay away ourselves because any injury would not be covered by the school insurance that day.

Yep. A student who arrives with a child is escorted from the building by security before the instructor has to make a decision. Absolutely No Children Ever Under Any Circumstances (This Means You!) has become the prime directive of our campus-safety department.

[johnr]

We are not allowed to allow children in class because our university's insurance covers only enrolled students and faculty/staff. Even when we had furlough days a couple of years ago, we were told to stay away ourselves because any injury would not be covered by the school insurance that day.

This seems odd to me.  Any university worth it's salt is going to have scads of non-faculty/non-students on the campus, in the classrooms, in the offices, every single day.  High school students don't visit your campus?  No guest speakers in the classroom?  No presentations open to the public?  No seminars,  plays, or musicals?  No football camps? No engineering camps.  Only students can attend sporting events? No guest can enter a classroom? No panel discussions.  No political debates?  Nothing?  You need to get better insurance, or better lawyers. Odd, very odd.

[johnr]

We are not allowed to allow children in class because our university's insurance covers only enrolled students and faculty/staff. Even when we had furlough days a couple of years ago, we were told to stay away ourselves because any injury would not be covered by the school insurance that day.

Yep. A student who arrives with a child is escorted from the building by security before the instructor has to make a decision. Absolutely No Children Ever Under Any Circumstances (This Means You!) has become the prime directive of our campus-safety department.

So much for campus recruiting.

[ideagirl]

We are not allowed to allow children in class because our university's insurance covers only enrolled students and faculty/staff.

I'd be willing to bet that's not true. Would the insurance cover it if a townie walking across campus slipped and fell on ice the uni had failed to clear? Would it cover a group of potential students and their parents touring campus to decide if the kid wants to go there? It would be insane for the uni not to buy insurance to cover such events. Not just because the uni would then be on the hook for any payouts, but the uni would also be on the hook for legal costs (whereas if they have insurance, the insurance pays for legal fees).

I think they're just saying that to make people not question their policy.

[larryc]

Oh goody, the "kids in the classroom" debate is back!

Me, I am for it. I have frequently allowed parents to bring a kid and even a baby to class when they needed to do so. It has never caused more than a minor distraction. Heck, I once taught with my infant son on my back and put him in a crib inthe back of the classroom when he fell asleep. The students thought it was great.

I strongly suspect the insurance business is made up by school administrators.

[mozman]

Yep. A student who arrives with a child is escorted from the building by security before the instructor has to make a decision. Absolutely No Children Ever Under Any Circumstances (This Means You!) has become the prime directive of our campus-safety department.

I doubt this as well. Until recently I worked in a security building with several biosafety-level 3 biocontainment labs in it. We still had children in there - they just had to check in with security first.

[eumaios]

We are not allowed to allow children in class because our university's insurance covers only enrolled students and faculty/staff. Even when we had furlough days a couple of years ago, we were told to stay away ourselves because any injury would not be covered by the school insurance that day.

Yep. A student who arrives with a child is escorted from the building by security before the instructor has to make a decision. Absolutely No Children Ever Under Any Circumstances (This Means You!) has become the prime directive of our campus-safety department.

So much for campus recruiting.

See, that's why we have a big Strategic Retention Initiative*--we need to hang on to such customers as we get.

I'm sure that JohnR and IdeaGirl are both right, and I'm sure that our masters are again bee-essing us. But campus safety pounces on any student accompanied by a child. A child in a classroom = the end of higher education as we know it. Plus earthquakes and zombies. And anarchy. That's what the people in nice suits tell us, anyway.

*That might not be exactly the right name. But the real name of our latest retention program is at least that grandiose.

[dr_alcott]

My school also claims that their no-kids-in-class policy exists for insurance reasons, but kids are welcome in other areas. Thus I've never brought my kids to my classes, but they come to office hours a few times a semester, and I've brought them to a couple meetings as well (but never before checking with others involved). My administrators always greet them warmly, so I suspect they're not being truthful about the insurance stuff.

I wouldn't object to a well-behaved kid in my classroom once in a great while. Yet it's been at least 10 years since a parent brought a kid to class, despite the fact that at least a third of my students are parents.

[erzuliefreda]

Who cares if it's true? It's university policy. Half their policies probably aren't "true," yet enforcing them is my job.

[johnr]

Who cares if it's true? It's university policy. Half their policies probably aren't "true," yet enforcing them is my job.

I care because I'm sick to death of people claiming that they can, or cannot, do things because of "insurance."  I know I can't do anything about it, I'm just sick of it.  As an aside, my life insurance will not cover me for being "sick to death" of insurance, or at least that's the rumor.