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[expatphd]

I'm looking for advice on how the primary/secondary school system works here.  All advice and clarifications appreciated!

As foreigners, we are very confused about how the system is run, and what is expected from us. My spouse and I were successful students in European and American systems with little parental intervention (in fact, parents who did not have university degrees). We are getting the feeling that parents are expected to do a LOT more here. 

Example areas of concern:
i) kids seem to arrive in Reception already reading, writing, and knowing basic maths at the age of 4;
ii) the library and book shops are full of study guides for SATS, 11+ exams, etc, leading us to wonder whether we are supposed to be using these things;
iii) there appears to be a whole industry dedicated to after school tuition that is *not* for struggling students as we first expected but rather those doing exceptionally well;  and
iv) even school sport teams seem to only take kids who already have extensive experience in the sport outside of school.

Are we putting our primary school children at a disadvantage by not being what is called 'helicopter parents' in the American media? (Usually in a derogatory sense!) Are we missing out on a number of obligations and 'tricks' to navigate this system that others are aware of and expect parents to know?

Cheers!

[scotia]

The system is different in different parts of the UK. I am guessing from your description that you are in England?

[expatphd]

Hi Scotia,

You have already provided me with information we did not know!

Yes, we are in England. Thanks.

[sandgrounder]

In London by any chance or an area that retains the 11+ and grammar schools? In most of England, it's pretty laid back, children go to their local primary and then on to the nearest comprehensive at 11. Tutoring tends to kick in when there are worries about GCSEs. However, there are some areas mainly but not exclusively in the South East where pushy parenting is the norm among the middle classes. There tends to be a correlation with areas with a few highly selective secondary schools and a perception that anything other than a place at those secondary schools will doom the child to a failed life. It's hype but very hard not to get caught up in it. And it is true that when a couple of highly selective schools skim off the highest achievers, then it is going to be harder for the remaining schools to match those standards. I'd suggest checking out what the secondary set-up is and evaluating whether there really is a problem, if not just ignore them and bring your kids up as you think fit. Frankly, I teach too many of these kids at university, who have been pushed way beyond their actual capabilities, can't cope at university as they can't learn independently and have a too high rate of mental health problems, for me to think that this is even remotely healthy.

Sorry that was a bit of a rant but I've spent most of the day dealing with a desperately sad case of exactly such a student; the parents meant well but it really did not work out for the kid.

[oddlyodd]

Example areas of concern:
i) kids seem to arrive in Reception already reading, writing, and knowing basic maths at the age of 4;
ii) the library and book shops are full of study guides for SATS, 11+ exams, etc, leading us to wonder whether we are supposed to be using these things;
iii) there appears to be a whole industry dedicated to after school tuition that is *not* for struggling students as we first expected but rather those doing exceptionally well;  and
iv) even school sport teams seem to only take kids who already have extensive experience in the sport outside of school.

It sounds like you're in a nice middle class area with pushy parents.
In other schools i) is certainly not the case, either because such schools are situated in areas of social disadvantage or because the children are non-English speaking immigrants. [Of course I understand some children develop at different rates, so some won't be up to doing reading, writing and math at 4. What I mean is that it is a perennial complaint in the media about children in poor areas turning up to reception class not knowing more basic skills like how to put on their coat or eat using a knife and fork]
ii) all children have to do SATS. The '11+' is for 'grammar school' entrance, and most places either don't have a grammar school or it is fee-paying/private.
iii and iv) - depends again on the school and types of parents.

Note also there is a whole debate going on at the moment about new 'free schools' and 'academies' - schools that take direct funding from government and have some element of private sponsorship. Ordinary state schools' funding is directed through their local education authority. These are educational experiments and are used as a political football. As they're relatively new, it's hard to tell what the end results will be.

[mingus]

My sugestion is that (for state schools) you start by looking at the Ofsted Inspection report for the schools in your area; every such school must have one at some point.    Thorough this and talking to a few people we found a very good primary school for our kids, with none of the "expectations" and "concerns" that you refer to.

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/

[scotia]

To augment mingus's good advice about Ofsted reports, I would also suggest listening to other parents around the school when they pick up or drop off their kids. You can learn a lot from what they are discussing.

The parents I know largely (probably wholly when I think about it) come from the proportion of the population who most definitely do not fit the 'pushy' stereotype, and they will not be buying the SATs books or extra tuition for their progeny. More than one of them has described the whole industry that seems to have grown up around parental insecurities as "a complete scam designed to part gullible middle class parents from their hard earned cash". Another friend describes her daughter's best friend's mother as 'Momzilla'; I have met the woman - her only topic of conversation seems to be her daughter and everything that they are sacrificing in order to maximise the kid's chance of success. The kid always looks ground down when around her mother, and obviously enjoys the freedom to run around and be a messy kid that she gets when not under the maternal gaze.

A friend who is a primary school teacher is horrified by the pressure that some parents put on their kids to get into the local grammar school (she is in a selective system), particularly those kids who really lack the academic capability to thrive, or even survive, if they do make it. In her classes she has had at least three children of 10/11 with major mental health problems that are almost certainly attributable to the pressures put on them to succeed in the 11+. 

[mingus]

One reason why we chose to overlook the local grammar schools was the very fierce competition among the parents, some of which competition fell on the kids.   I want my kids to do well in school (and the kids in the chosen school generally appear to) but also to enjoy that period of the lives.   

[drspouse]

I am in a town with a lot of university parents with screeds of books at home, and there is a selective system, but certainly the majority do not know much beyond a few letters and numbers when they enter reception (I volunteer with 5yos and we do not expect much beyond basic pencil control, and possibly the ability to do dot-to-dot and write their name).

[britmom]

This is interesting from my perspective as I have an almost-5 year old about to start school in August. (We're in Scotland). About six months ago we got a sheet from her childminder saying she needs to be able to count to 20, know the alphabet and do various other things when they start school.  I'll confess it worried me. (At that point she could only count to about 15. Arghh! Is my child going to feel left behind when she starts school?!) A meeting with the head of a local school settled my mind that there are really no expectations.  She can now count to 20-odd, write and read her name and recognise a few letters so I figure she'll be fine. (She'll be one of the oldest in her year, which I'm sure helps.)

Actually, whilst we're on the subject of primary education - our youngest will be one of the youngest in her year when she starts school. (The equivalent of a late July birthday in the English system). We have the option to hold her back a year so she will be 5 yrs, 7 months when she starts school. I know that it's partly down to the individual child, but any thoughts on whether the older the better when it comes to starting school? It seems that she'll still be so little to be at school full time if she goes when she's 4.5. 

[expatphd]

Nice to know I am not the only one getting stressed out by the bizarre expectations here! It does seem to be a matter of the social environment putting this pressure on everyone in my area.

[scotia]

Actually, whilst we're on the subject of primary education - our youngest will be one of the youngest in her year when she starts school. (The equivalent of a late July birthday in the English system). We have the option to hold her back a year so she will be 5 yrs, 7 months when she starts school. I know that it's partly down to the individual child, but any thoughts on whether the older the better when it comes to starting school? It seems that she'll still be so little to be at school full time if she goes when she's 4.5. 

I think it really does depend on the individual child. One of my colleagues has three kids. One was in pre-school for an additional year because he was immature in comparison to other kids his age. He is now the eldest child in the class, and still immature when compared with some of his younger classmates, but not markedly so.

In contrast, his younger sister (age 8), who if a few days younger would have started school a year later, is doing extremely well despite not being held back. The middle child is also a boy. He could have been held back (I think his birthday is 3 months before the cutoff for entry) but is again doing fine in a class of mostly older kids. He is a very confident (not obnoxiously so, just comfortable around many different ages and types of people) and sociable boy and nothing seems to faze him.

[seniorscholar]

Although I'm in the US now, both of my daughters started school in the UK. They're two years and two months apart, with the school "deadline" in those two months. Thus the elder was the youngest person in her class, and the younger was the oldest person in hers, and for both of them it was (as it turned out) exactly right. Back in the US, after putting them in our neighborhood school, I spoke with a colleague who was trying to get his child into one of the high prestige private schools in the city -- he reported that at the interview, they seemed to be trying to determine of this five-year old would be admitted to Yale 18 years later. What I did learn from that experience (after his son went to the same neighborhood school as my daughters) is that the high-class school holds all boys back for a year because they're "too immature" for learning at age 5.

All of which means that it depends on the child, and you're lucky if you're dealing with schools that will allow you to make that decision yourself.

[wegie]

Another vote for "it depends on the individual child" here. I'm an April baby and was consistently among the three or four youngest in the class and never had any academic problems (I will admit that I was immature, but since I'm still a bit immature at pushing 48 we can't really say that this was an educational problem per se ;-). WH's niece is even more of an outlier, she's a late August baby, but is doing excellently and is extremely mature and sensible.

With respect to pushy parents (a breed all too common in my corner of west London), one thing I've observed is that the higher the education level of the parents, the less pushy they tend to be, mainly because they tend to have pretty bright children to start with. Yes, there are plenty of helicopters around (and they all park their bloody armoured bourgeoisie carriers outside my flat to drop off and collect Harry and Jemima from the private school across the road), but being in a house with a couple of academics actually presents the expatphd sprogs with a massive inbuilt advantage. As for the sports thing, that's probably more because one of the standard ways of dealing with holidays and half terms in a two parent household is a week of mini-rugby or football.

[britmom]

Thanks, all. I suppose I will have to just stop worrying thinking about this and see how she goes. The youngest has just turned 2 so I have a while. She's a very laid-back, cheeky little thing. Nothing seems to faze her. She's starting nursery a couple of days a week soon - it will be interesting to see how she reacts.

My oldest is very mature for her age, and a bit of a sensitive little thing. She tends to worry a lot about other people.  I think she's been ready for school for a while. (She's repeatedly asking me to let her do home work....)