next »

[shrek]

I do think it's different to say, "you know, so and so is an asshat and I won't work with them" and "you know, so and so and I have different opinions about how to approach research writing and questions."

Some of these folks can do more damage than average, other's are a pain, but not harmful. Some students are more vulnerable to this bs than others.

[zyzzx]

When I was in graduate school it was fellow students who warned about this sort of thing. When faculty conflicts have an effect on a student, word gets around. 'Everyone' knew that a student of professor Y's should absolutely not have professor X on their committee, with stories to back it up. New students of professor X or Y got clued in pretty quickly by the older students.
If this person is really that bad, I am surprised that the student grapevine hasn't swung into action. Or maybe we just had an unusually tight student community?

[infopri]

I was the student in this situation.

There were very few people on the faculty of my doctoral institution with knowledge of and interest in my subfield, so I wanted the two who did.  They were both tenured Big Names in the field, both located at my school, and I got along well with both.  But, while they got along fine on a personal level, professionally they did not see the subject matter of the research in the same light.  They had been on the same dissertation committees before, and it didn't go well for the student.  Big Name #1 was my advisor, and when we talked, early on, about who else should be on the committee, I of course mentioned Big Name #2.  Generally, I think larryc is exactly right about not criticizing other faculty members in front of studnts, but Big Name #1 knew that I had seen the prior defenses where the problems had occurred (and that I was friends with the students involved), so there was really no point in pussyfooting around.

He said, "Well, it's your committee, and you can have him if you want him--but I'm telling you now, if he bites you on the ankle, I'm not going to be able to get him to let go."

I should mention that the faculty in this school are unusually collegial, with almost none of the departmental politics we often hear about.  But the ankle-biting comment exactly described what had happened before: Big Name #2 had behaved just like a dog who had bitten the student on the ankle and just Wouldn't. Let. Go.  The defenses where this happened both ran an extra hour because of his stubbornness. 

In the end, we did not ask Big Name #2 to serve on my committee.

[prof52]

I agree with the "do not badmouth they colleagues in front of students" rule, but the prohibition against "I'll be honest, you'll regret it if you try to work with both of us" seems like unnecessary obfuscation.  

I did not see this prohibition in any of the posts on this thread.  It was not the intent of mine, which was meant only to caution the OP against making things worse for OP and OP's current advisees that have Prof. Obstinate on their committees by telling potential future advisees that OP will not chair their committee if they put Prof. Obstinate on it, as OP proposed (there are more diplomatic ways to handle the issue, as other posters have suggested).  My recommendation for OP to address the issue with Prof. Obstinate also had OP's currrent advisees in mind more than future ones.

It wasn't my intention to pin this position on you, and I apologize if it seemed that way.  I'm reacting to some cultural issues in my department as much as to anything that was written here.  I'm sorry if it sounded as though I was putting words in your mouth.  

[birainia]

When I was in graduate school it was fellow students who warned about this sort of thing. When faculty conflicts have an effect on a student, word gets around. 'Everyone' knew that a student of professor Y's should absolutely not have professor X on their committee, with stories to back it up. New students of professor X or Y got clued in pretty quickly by the older students.
If this person is really that bad, I am surprised that the student grapevine hasn't swung into action. Or maybe we just had an unusually tight student community?

I think the issue here is that I work well with everyone. And so the move for me to avoid working with him/her is new. I think some students do avoid working with him/her, but not everyone. Also, he/she has only been with the dept for five years. It can take a while for trends to emerge, given how long it takes for students to move from coursework, to exam, to defense.

[aside]

I agree with the "do not badmouth they colleagues in front of students" rule, but the prohibition against "I'll be honest, you'll regret it if you try to work with both of us" seems like unnecessary obfuscation.  

I did not see this prohibition in any of the posts on this thread.  It was not the intent of mine, which was meant only to caution the OP against making things worse for OP and OP's current advisees that have Prof. Obstinate on their committees by telling potential future advisees that OP will not chair their committee if they put Prof. Obstinate on it, as OP proposed (there are more diplomatic ways to handle the issue, as other posters have suggested).  My recommendation for OP to address the issue with Prof. Obstinate also had OP's currrent advisees in mind more than future ones.

It wasn't my intention to pin this position on you, and I apologize if it seemed that way.  I'm reacting to some cultural issues in my department as much as to anything that was written here.  I'm sorry if it sounded as though I was putting words in your mouth.  

No apology needed because my post could be read that way in the context of subsequent posts and needed clarification.  Good luck dealing with the cultural issues in your department!

[prof52]

[/quote]

No apology needed because my post could be read that way in the context of subsequent posts and needed clarification.  Good luck dealing with the cultural issues in your department!
[/quote]

Thank you for your well wishes. I'll need them.  Far too many of my colleagues have, as of late, been drawing their drinking water from the crazy well.

[mountainguy]

Having experienced major committee drama from a graduate student's perspective, it's frustrating to discover during one's own defense that combining Professor A with Professor B results in hostile explosion. Yes, avoid dissing your colleague in front of students, but get him/her off of the committee as diplomatically as possible. You'll save everyone aggravation in the long run.