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[secret_santa]

Hi,
I'm a recently promoted prof - therefore paid at the bottom of the pay scale - at a Russell Group university. I've recently won a very large, supposedly prestigious grant and I wonder whether there is any possibility of negotiating a salary increase outside of the usual pay increase process (which would at best result in 1 or 2 increments). This is a grant that generally only senior professors win and it is very portable (within the EU). I'd prefer not to go on the market to gain leverage but I'm not really sure how else to approach this. Any advice appreciated.

[mingus]

Hi,
I'm a recently promoted prof - therefore paid at the bottom of the pay scale - at a Russell Group university. I've recently won a very large, supposedly prestigious grant and I wonder whether there is any possibility of negotiating a salary increase outside of the usual pay increase process (which would at best result in 1 or 2 increments). This is a grant that generally only senior professors win and it is very portable (within the EU). I'd prefer not to go on the market to gain leverage but I'm not really sure how else to approach this. Any advice appreciated.

The normal expectation is that you will be so happy that you will not bother anyone for a few years.   Unless you have some serious leverage---as in, I have a really better offer elsewhere, on the basis of this here grant---if I were you, I should not make much of it.   Of course, congratulations are in order.  Etc.

Still, if you really feel that you deserve a major reward, then I would suggest that you first have an honest talk with the Head of Department/School. 

Goo luck.

[science_expat]

I'd try to negotiate reduced teaching or admin instead.

Congrats on the promotion and the grant but if you were in my department I'd say that the latter indicates that you deserved the former.

And from my position at Head of School level, I'm very reluctant to promote / renumerate folks outside the normal structures as it creates resentment across the unit. My preference is to tell the individual good bye and good luck, though senior management does not always agree.

[secret_santa]

Thanks. Food for thought. The grant covers my salary for the next five years so I will be giving up most teaching and admin so there is not much I can negotiate there. One of the reasons I would like to negotiate pay outside of the normal structures is because the post holder to replace my teaching and admin is likely to get paid significantly more than me as they will be externally recruited. I do realise promoted profs tend to earn less than recruited profs, but it seems inevitable that I will spend the next 25-30 years as a prof floating about the lower reaches of our pay scale (which I am aware makes me luckier than many).  I guess I should think carefully about how to approach this (if at all).

[babbinacara]

Surely your uni would not recruit at Professor-level (!! whether title or salary) for a five year fixed term teaching and admin post.
The replacement recruiting I've seen has been near the bottom of the Lecturer scale--so the university can save money. I would very much doubt that a replacement post holder would be making more than you are, even if you are at the bottom of the Professor pay range.

Or...are you using 'prof' in the US sense here?

Hi,
I'm a recently promoted prof - therefore paid at the bottom of the pay scale...

[secret_santa]

No. I'm using prof in the UK sense. The admin and teaching I do can't be replaced by an entry level position. The university will make a permanent investment in a new prof on the back of my salary saving, which will be circumscribed to a mid point on the pay-scale, which is a lot more than I currently earn. The post holder will take on some of the things I am currently responsible for, and contribute to the teaching/research activities I have built up. 

[mingus]

No. I'm using prof in the UK sense. The admin and teaching I do can't be replaced by an entry level position. The university will make a permanent investment in a new prof on the back of my salary saving, which will be circumscribed to a mid point on the pay-scale, which is a lot more than I currently earn. The post holder will take on some of the things I am currently responsible for, and contribute to the teaching/research activities I have built up. 

Given that you were doing it before you got promoted, it must be the case that you do not have to be a prof to do it.    (I exclude things like sitting the the professorial appointments committee etc.)  I still don't see you getting necessarily getting a riase; getting big, amazing grants is, after all what one of the things profoessors are supposed to do.   I was also curious about your distinction between "professor" and "senior professor"; at my university they are all "professors" and the same levels of performance is expected from all.

[secret_santa]

I appreciate I could be more precise with terms. When I say 'recently promoted' I meant a couple of years ago, so I really mean I am a relatively recent professor. The admin role would require you to be a professor to be eligible to do it, plus there is a need for more leadership in my area. 

'Senior professor' is not an institutional term, I'm meaning not run of the mill, fellow of blah blah, etc etc.

I can be precise in saying that I am in agreement I won't necessarily get a raise (well more than an increment)! I just wondered whether it was worth pushing the boat out to ask or settle for an increment. The fact that the same levels of performance is expected from all does suggest that equality of pay for said performance would be nice though....

[mingus]

I appreciate I could be more precise with terms. When I say 'recently promoted' I meant a couple of years ago, so I really mean I am a relatively recent professor. The admin role would require you to be a professor to be eligible to do it, plus there is a need for more leadership in my area. 

'Senior professor' is not an institutional term, I'm meaning not run of the mill, fellow of blah blah, etc etc.

I can be precise in saying that I am in agreement I won't necessarily get a raise (well more than an increment)! I just wondered whether it was worth pushing the boat out to ask or settle for an increment. The fact that the same levels of performance is expected from all does suggest that equality of pay for said performance would be nice though....

The standard UK approach is that you get "equality" of pay by steadily marching up the salary spine.     However, some universities have what might be considered a single, standard salaries for professors, while some have 2 or 3 bands according to performance.   

Anyway, other than the risk of beng considered a nuisance, you have nothing to lose by asking.   So, hopeless as the case appears to be, why not?   One never knows.   The Dean might have got some on the day you ask.

[donstefano]

If you don't ask, they won't give anything. Universities love prestige even more than money (we got so many of this grant, this is more than...). If this is a prestigious grant, the do submit your 'demands'. This is a one-off opportunity. I don't know what grant it is, but given that ERC grants have recently been awarded - it may be an ERC grant. In my field that would be sufficient to get a serious pay rise. An ERC also makes one extremely marketable, and many universities are willing to offer a pay rise if you'd consider moving to them with the grant.

If, after negotiation, they would refuse a pay rise, have an alternative ready (other than moving?) - eg new office furniture, teaching load reduction, a one-off financial bonus etc

[secret_santa]

We have one spine and there are no automatic increases, there are a fraction the number of annual increments available than there are profs so its a battle to even get one. Thats why I'm quite keen to push for more than one or two increments. I will at least mention the possibility of a pay rise but will settle for a large, leather office chair. Maybe with a white cat.