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[quietly]

You can't do anything if you are untenured. But the students can.

If you know these things because students are telling you, nudge them to do a little research into what they can do about it. A group of students going to the dean sounds like the right path here. And there could be a number of ways they could go about this if it matters to them. Their money is at stake, not yours. If they only care enough about your educations to complain to you and not do anything else, then there is no reason for you to endanger yourself.

OTOH the students may sincerely believe they're getting a good deal.  I have seen this happen and the slacking prof always butters their egos by saying, "You're adults, you will take from this class what you need and want no matter what I assign.  I am asking little of you because you ask so much of yourselves."  Many of them believe this really is in their best interest, and the problem is those mean profs who make them do stuff without recognizing their maturity and genius.

Q.

[tenured_feminist]

If it's grad students, Quietly, I say let them dig their own graves.

The OP is talking about a few senior colleagues. As long as it's not the norm among tenured people in the department, and as long as the OP's seminars are drawing enough students to run, there's no need to overreact.

It is possible to get very good evaluations while pushing grad students pretty darn hard, as long as the students understand the logic behind the assignments and expectations, and as long as the slackers are given proper cues to leave and have the ability to do so (i.e., it's not a required course).

Sorry, I am just not seeing h*llhole based on a report that a few senior folks don't have high standards in their grad seminars. I am guessing that people with experience in deeply dysfunctional departments would gladly trade for this problem in a heartbeat.

[zharkov]

A group of students going to the dean sounds like the right path here. And there could be a number of ways they could go about this if it matters to them. Their money is at stake, not yours.
 

I would not advise going to the dean, unless the students also met with the DGS and chair first, and got no response.  In my experience, deans are not usually that up to speed about how a department actually operates.  

OP, are the students in the program self-pay?  Or are they supported?  (If self-pay, then is the program basically a cash cow, where student retention and "happiness" trumps all?)

Another question for the OP:  Does the lack of rigor in the courses you mention eventually cause problems with when students take comps and do theses/dissertations?   To me, that is the best reason to advance changes in how courses are taught.

 

[hulkhogan]

Thank you all for your replies and suggestions. I'd just like to add a few comments on my part.

@tortugaphd: We are a small department of five, and there are two of us trying to raise standards and two, well, who don't. One sort of does his own thing. What keeps me going indeed are those few students who blossom under a challenge.

@spinnaker: I don't think I'm surrounded by idiots. I do believe the senior colleagues are quite smart (or maybe crafty). They have figured out exactly how they can collect social security while still drawing a full paycheck and not having to much for it. I agree that I am, well, I'm guess more confused than disillusioned. This is my first job teaching graduate students, and frankly, I can do more stuff (and more difficult stuff) with my undergraduates. (A lot of graduate students come to us from different fields.) I have an overseas graduate degree and a U.S. doctorate. When I first applied for doctorate study, many equivalency agencies told me that my degree was not equal to an American Master's? Huh? I could do ten times as much as our students can when they finish our program.

@zharkov: My current employer is putting a lot of resources into improving it's standing. We have become an RU/VH. That's why it's so baffling that the administration lets this situation continue. I have asked and listened, and the bottom line (my biases may have clouded my perception here) that one colleague is really just doing it for the paycheck anymore, and the other has developed an understanding that "student-centered" means giving the students whatever they want. But yes, things definitely got that way because our department has gone through a succession of chairs and is dysfunctional. Still, at least part of the reason is that these seniors make every chair's life hellish.

@tenured_feminist: That's exactly what I'm doing. I provide explanations and rationale all the time, and I suppose that's what saves my evaluation scores. I can't let them drift because the seniors teach three of the four required introductory courses to our graduate program, so by the time we get students, they've already been exposed to not having to do any work. We've tried to change schedules to have them give up those classes, but no dice.

@observer3: I know these things because my colleagues themselves are telling me, and students are complaining to me that I assign to much work.

@lizardmom1: That's one of the questions I've had. I realize that the two colleagues in question abuse the tenure system, but I am not sure if admins don't know, know but don't care, know but don't know what to do, or know and approve.

@quietly: Do you work here, too?

@zharkov: Luckily, the two colleagues don't teach doctoral courses (too much work). I think you're on to something, though. Our program is definitely a cash cow, so much so that we support a few other programs that have enrollment problems. And even though we're an RU/VH, we do get pummeled with talk about headcount and teaching evaluations all the time. Maybe that's an avenue I need to explore. Does administration see our program not as academically valuable but simply a source of income, so quality doesn't matter as long as we bring in the money to prop up others? Interesting thought.