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[sockpuppetftw]

Me: first year on the tenure track at a good school (R1) in my humanities field. My colleagues have been very welcoming and supportive. I have a few good MA students and some decent doctoral students; the other MA students struggle with basic academic skills but are very intense and enthusiastic. The area of the country where I live is not to my taste but has a good climate and I could see myself adjusting very well. Tenure here is by no means guaranteed, but very likely. The salary is generous by humanities standards. My problem?

I've been invited for an on-campus at the Ivy from which I graduated a couple years ago (a top 3 school in my field, if not #1).

I intend to tell my chair about this shortly. But I also feel very guilty, and very conflicted.

I like my job. It's a good job! And like most Ivies, the department there is a pressure-cooker, with some genuine problems. But there are also some people there that I really like, including a senior person who may be the best person in my field in the US (as well as, of course, people like my doctoral advisor and so on). I don't think I'm the type who would get tenure there, even though the job would be tenure track, theoretically.

My current job invested a lot of energy in selecting me from a very long list of candidates, and despite minor frustrations I can see it working out. And I'm by no means a shoo-in for the Ivy job, although I know I have a good shot at it. It's like my desire to be realistic and sober-minded and responsible is being overtaken by an
OMG they really like me! OMG they think I'm smart enough/good enough to be at Ivy!
even as my conscience says to me: this is a **** move. Drop out while you still can.

Thoughts?

[glowdart]

AFTDJ.

Mention nothing to anyone until you have a campus visit or maybe even an offer.  (There are varying opinions on this score; others will weigh in.)

If you get the offer and decide you don't want it, then you might be able to negotiate for something with current job. 

[hegemony]

Pretty much every academic job selects someone from a long list of candidates.  That is irrelevant to your decision.  You do not owe your current university so much that you should turn down a more advantageous job just to be nice to them. 

You can find out more about the prospective job if you're invited for a campus visit. 

AFTDJ.

[sockpuppetftw]

I may not have been clear enough: I have been invited for a campus visit - I'm supposed to go out in a few weeks.

[glowdart]

I may not have been clear enough: I have a campus visit.

Whoops!  I read that sentence too fast in the OP.

I still wouldn't say anything at this point.  Go, see what you think, and then either leave or stay and try to negotiate.  But right now, it sounds like your nerves are talking.  Put any feelings of guilt out of your mind and rock that interview.  Decide what to do about the Ivy's tenure record and your future only after that becomes an issue (via an offer).  You're conscious that tenure might be a concern, so you can go through the interview process without blinders on about that issue, but don't pull out now out of fear or some sense of loyalty to your current job. 

Good luck!

[laurel_knx]

Since you were in that program, do you know where the folks who don't get tenure moved to? From what I've heard (from the social sciences), not getting tenure at an Ivy isn't a kiss of death, but can be parlayed into a nice R1 job (perhaps with more bargaining power than you had going into the current job).

If you could thrive at the Ivy (even if not enough to get tenure), it could be a good experience.

[fedscholar]

Just spoke with a friend who was just tenured at a public Ivey. Hated it. Left.
Very low talent to ego ratios. YMMV. They are the ultimate, except they may not be for everyone.

[firstgeneration]

This happened to me, OP.  I am a forum lurker who was in a similar situation and had similar thoughts.  I AFTDJ'd and recently received an offer.

Also, a public Ivy is not an Ivy.  I am familiar with both.  Public and private institutions are very different.

[sockpuppetftw]

Thanks for comments. This is one of the Ivies, as it were (HYP), so people who don't get tenure generally do well, even very well, but I don't know that I'd necessarily have more options than I might have after (hypothetically) getting tenure here, since the place I'm at is still in the top 10-15 in my specific field (although far less prestigious as an institution).

Firstgeneration, have you told your department? Are you intending to take it?

I just don't know how to sort out the guilt. My new colleagues have gone far beyond ordinary criteria for being welcoming and supportive, although it's still a honeymoon phase, I assume. I'm a good fit here for some very specific reasons, although of course they could easily find another good person in my place, but the way they do searches here is unusually expensive and demanding of faculty time, and leaving quickly would certainly add a great deal of hassle to the lives of some people I like very much. I'm also concerned about the potential negative consequences for me in my current job if I don't get an offer - my current colleagues have close friends at the Ivy in question, so it's bound to come out after the job talk if not before.

[sockpuppetftw]

Oh, and firstgeneration - congratulations on the offer!

[hegemony]

You assume that they will feel offended if you look as if you're going to leave.  I have a close friend who was in this very position.  Not only were his colleagues not offended, they were so impressed ("We must really have a star!") that they moved heaven and earth to keep him.  He was determined to leave his job for the Ivy.  But his institution made him a counter-offer he really couldn't refuse.  I mean it was a stupendous offer.  So he stayed, despite having had every intention of moving.  And then his colleagues were even more delighted that he stayed after all.  Win-win. 

Also, I know you like these colleagues and you feel at home in your department.  But at the end of the day it is a job, not a marriage.  Your primary loyalty should be to your life and your career, not to your employing institution. 

[paulsa]

I wouldn't tell your current school anything unless you got an offer. If I were making this decision about where to go, I think I'd try to determine which situation which would allow me to produce the best scholarship over the next six years, roughly the time between now and when I'd be coming up for tenure.

Moving from a solid R1 where tenure is likely to an Ivy where tenure is unlikely obviously carries its risk, but if the Ivy's resources and potential for collaboration with colleagues offers superior resources that will allow you to do better scholarship, then you'd probably land on your feet afterward even if you didn't make tenure. On the other hand, if the pressure cooker environment you describe doesn't also come with advantages that would improve your scholarship , it might not be the place for a junior scholar at this point, and maybe the R1 is better for now, even if you'd like to eventually land at an Ivy. It's possible that avoiding the pressure cooker environment at an early stage of your career might allow you to do what you need to in order to write your own ticket later. Of course, only you can weigh all the factors and know which is really best for you. 
 

[thehighking]

You assume that they will feel offended if you look as if you're going to leave.  I have a close friend who was in this very position.  Not only were his colleagues not offended, they were so impressed ("We must really have a star!") that they moved heaven and earth to keep him.  He was determined to leave his job for the Ivy.  But his institution made him a counter-offer he really couldn't refuse.  I mean it was a stupendous offer.  So he stayed, despite having had every intention of moving.  And then his colleagues were even more delighted that he stayed after all.  Win-win. 

Also, I know you like these colleagues and you feel at home in your department.  But at the end of the day it is a job, not a marriage.  Your primary loyalty should be to your life and your career, not to your employing institution. 

hegemony, could you elaborate? I'm just curious what sort of offer this might be: like what? Huge pay raise and huge course releases? What?

[larryc]

Do your best at the interview, but remember that the interview goes both ways. Ask whatever questions you have. Can you afford a house for what they are offering? Will you be as happy?

It is hard sometimes to be inner-directed instead of outer-directed, if you know what I mean. When you feel flattered it is easy to make a mistake. Go on the visit and find out more, but remember you can say no. Heck, people who said no to an Ivy is a way more elite group than people who said yes.

[leobloom]

I have a more mundane question for OP, and very little to contribute to the topic, as I'm no Ivy material. Are you in shock for having been invited for a campus interview out of the blue, or, as I suspect, you actually applied for the job and are amazed that you have made it this far, to the campus stage? (in which case, really, the answer to your question directly deals with reconciling these two antagonistic tendencies you have at the moment: one, to make good with your current colleagues, and another, to pursue your Ivy-Alma Mater dream - and the latter brings as a bonus your worries about not making tenure at the Ivy place, worries which have largely been dispelled already career-wise by the previous posters.)
I know it's trivial, while you may prefer elliptic sentences, but it's sometimes useful to just fill in the dots. That way one can better decipher your emotional state.