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[mythbuster]

OldfullProf, I'd like to hear about how you managed the logistics in a teaching to Mastery class.
     I had a Physics class where we were the guinea pigs for this method and it did not work well at all logistically. Partly because the idea was to have one-on-one oral exams where you did a problem in front of the teacher to demonstrate mastery. If you missed it you had to schedule a retake with a different problem. It turned into a total log jam of meetings at odd hours and we got way off schedule for the semester. I like the principle of teaching to Mastery, but short of individualized tutorials, I can't see how it really happens.

[punchnpie]

Think of what this system teaches: everything can be "re-done" later. Measure once, cut twice.

Yup. However, when I read this, I thought of forumites who allow students to re-do papers. I never heard of that before I read it on the fora and certainly never experienced it as a student. You write your paper, turn it in, and get your marks. No do overs.  If I can constantly redo a paper, when do I learn my lesson and pay attention to what I'm doing? And if I keep getting low scores, than either that's what I'm capable of or I just don't want to do the work. Either way, I deserve the grade I got.

Last term I had a grad student ask if I'd read a class assignment before submission. I was floored. No. You do your best and hand it in. If this were a thesis, that's a different ball game, but to read a regular assignment? Not gonna happen.

I can imagine what these kids will be like if/when they get to college.

[lucero]

Well, I have actually taught elementary school. K-8 for three years. It was not for me  (too stressful) which is why I don't do it anymore. Since I was a specialist the range of students was not that much of a problem, but the special ed kids were. The behavioral issues always came from them (and I didn't know who was who until I would have a conference with the principal and/or the parent) after they had been put in time out and sent to the principal's office.

In a small rural public school maybe this works--after all one room school houses worked for over a century. However, my experience in urban schools as a student and as a teacher is that it is a disaster. In elementary school the classes ranged from 28-40 students in K-8 (parochial school) . I did feel bored in my classes (and this was before any special ed and in a private school so they were able to accommodate by giving me extra work or having me tutor other students). As an adult I would be very annoyed in that kind of situation but I didn't mind helping the other students from 5-8 grade as they had run out of stuff for me to do. I was in the 8th grade reading class when I was in 5th grade. In grades 1-4 this wasn't that much of a problem because the students were tracked at the school and underperformers/achievers were kicked out or not accepted. In 5th grade I went to another private school and they accepted all levels of students and mixed in bright with the bottom 1/4 (and put the two averages together). It was really a disaster. Perhaps the teachers did not know how to deal with such diversity in the classroom, but I learned virtually nothing from the classes with my peers--I was lucky to be put in higher levels and/ or given private instruction in reading and math (when they ran out of classes).

[lohai0]

The best remedial program I ever worked with for math was a forced mastery system. We still had zeros though.

[lucero]

On another note, I use mastery in the online classes I teach. These classes are not taught that way in face to face. Originally I did not use mastery, but ideally in the discipline, in which the learning is cumulative, it makes sense. But let me inform those that like it, the students STILL do not do the work, even though they can retake and redo everything. Some of them are just lazy or don't want to be bothered and the STILL fail. Anybody with half a brain could get an A in this online course by just continuing to redo the assessments but many don't even bother.

So even setting up grades for mastery for college students, if they already are slackers they are just not going to do it.

[oldfullprof]

OldfullProf, I'd like to hear about how you managed the logistics in a teaching to Mastery class.

In stat, I'd grade objectively.  I'd get a lot of Cs, Ds, and Fs.  (Based on 100 point scale.)  These people could redo their assignments (homeworks and take home tests) to try to get a B.  They often stopped at a C.  Because these were number type answers, they were easy to grade and regrade.  Most people only came back once.

[fearless_winnower]

Think of what this system teaches: everything can be "re-done" later. Measure once, cut twice.

Yup. However, when I read this, I thought of forumites who allow students to re-do papers. I never heard of that before I read it on the fora and certainly never experienced it as a student. You write your paper, turn it in, and get your marks. No do overs.  If I can constantly redo a paper, when do I learn my lesson and pay attention to what I'm doing? And if I keep getting low scores, than either that's what I'm capable of or I just don't want to do the work. Either way, I deserve the grade I got.

There's a difference between letting a student redo something indefinitely, and allowing a limited number of re-dos.  I allow students to redo papers once and average the scores.  They also can only re-do if the original paper was turned in on time and meets the minimum requirements (e.g. length, number of sources, etc.)  It might mean that some students blow off the assignment the first time somewhat, but they're still penalized for it, and they can't totally ignore the assignment.  What it does mean is students get a chance to redeem themselves if they've misunderstood the assignment or just didn't quite make it the first time.  I see it as increasing chances of mastery, and teaching a lesson about revision and response to criticism even in those classes where its difficult for me to build in scaffolding for whatever reason.