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[noalbany]

Hello,

I'm hoping someone can help me with this..... I'm applying for a job to a major university--tonight, online-- they are advertising positions as "Clinical, Assistant, and Associate Professors" stated above the description, in the header. I understood it as 'pick one', so I write in my CL that I'm applying for the rank of Associate Professor. Though my friend, a very intelligent person she is, understands it as 'it's open, just apply, we'll decide' sort of thing. I don't know and I'm blurry from a day of editing and compiling. Any suggests? Many thanks.

[mleok]

My guess is that if you have to ask this question, you're not at a career stage where you would be competitive for an associate professorship. I would suggest applying for the assistant professorship if you have no prior faculty experience, but even this might be a long shot depending on your field and the nature of the institution.

[noalbany]

Many thanks for taking the time to reply. I'm a composer, it's for a job in a music department. I don't have prior university teaching experience, though I do have a CV that perhaps far surpasses many currently employed professors. Music schools and departments often hire highly experienced individuals without phd's. Anyway, I looked around and found salaries (for this particular school) that listed associate professors lower than assistant professors. Naturally I assumed....

Is that wrong?

Thanks again.

[hegemony]

Salary levels are a complex issue, but assistant professors are lower in rank than associate professors.  It goes assistant, associate, full, from lowest to highest.

[drnobody]

I'm in a field that hired clinical as well. Often they assign clinical to non-PhDs, and generally you need a PhD to apply for assistant, unless there's some form of terminal degree that is specialized (MFAs sometimes). Never associate.

[dalekk]

I agree with your friend.  Simply say, "I'm applying for your whatever position" and don't reference the rank.  If you specifically mention Associate and you're clearly not qualified for it, they will probably reject you out of hand.

[noalbany]

Thank you all. Very useful info.

[snowbound]

I'm not in your field, so take this for what it's worth, but I would think that--given your lack of academic qualifications--you should go for the clinical position.  That generally means a person whose experience in the field makes up for their lack of scholarship.

[msparticularity]

I'm not in your field, so take this for what it's worth, but I would think that--given your lack of academic qualifications--you should go for the clinical position.  That generally means a person whose experience in the field makes up for their lack of scholarship.

In many fields, "clinical" indicates a non-TT slot, while assistant and associate are TT or even tenured. As a composer, the OP's creative product is equivalent to research for other fields, so there is no reason s/he should apply for a clinical position rather than a TT--if that is how the division is made in this case.

[noalbany]

Hi, thanks. From the job announcement: "Tenure-track and contract positions are available at junior or senior ranks, depending on qualifications and experience."

My experience is quite extensive. Apart from major composition work and performance credits, I've also authored two books and written countless articles for leading periodicals--not journals, but magazines with circulation in the six figures. Point is, I'd hate to apply for a particular position and get rejected. But I also have no interest in taking a contract position that would pay me less that I make now. Guess I just answered my own question. Thanks, again.

[noalbany]

Am I wrong in thinking that once you take a contract position you're pretty much stuck there, without opportunity for tenure or TT? Thanks.

[msparticularity]

Am I wrong in thinking that once you take a contract position you're pretty much stuck there, without opportunity for tenure or TT? Thanks.

You could be stuck in the sense that you are unlikely to get a TT position at that same institution, but gaining faculty experience in a contract position can be very valuable in preparing you for a job search for future TT positions at other institutions.

It looks to me as if you may have had very little preparation for an academic job search, which could make faculty experience in a clinical position all the more valuable. Do you have a doctorate, and did it involve preparation for academic research? You composition credentials will certainly count toward that, but your experience in writing for the popular press will not be considered research--although hopefully it will be a signal of your public profile. In addition to those qualifications, do you have any teaching experience of the kind that is applicable to the university classroom?

[noalbany]

Hi. You're right.

No doctorate, undergrad degree. I have experience teaching college credit courses to advanced high school students, summer programs. I don't assume that to mean much.

When I went to school the faculty was comprised almost entirely of individuals who were esteemed professionals in their field. In four years I don't think I had one instructor who held a doctorate, or a bachelors degree in some cases--and that school is considered to be one of the world's finest jazz performance programs (heh, jazz). I know that doesn't mean much in academia proper....but even some filmmakers I've composed for don't hold advanced degrees, or any degree at all in one case, and they have posts at major universities. I may be wrong, but I think in the 'creative' disciplines there is more leniency regarding lack of advanced degrees. Good music training really does come from those that 'do', and are able to articulate. Of course I may need to convince a search committee of that.

Thanks for your help. What you say makes sense. Seems it would be of great value to get in and look around via the Clinical route.....

[dillywilly]

Um, not for nothing, but have you considered that whatever rank you might get that you will most likely get paid far less than you are now? If you want to be a teacher, part of a program, stability, etc, then opting for less pay may be an appropriate calculus, especially is all that you do is always contract work. I can imagine that even with so much experience, having one employer with one steady paycheck and benefits would be a good thing, especially if you have a family. But almost any academic job will pay very little. I know that you're not making a trade off, why would you? But working at college/university has a tendency of consuming your days in ways you might not expect. I mean, I love my students, but I am constantly having to help them deal with their anxiety issues. And there went that hour where I was supposed to a read a book for my article. Anyway, all this to say, from a purely economic standpoint, you might be better off...um, WAY BETTER OFF, if you do all the wonderful work you're already doing rather than working at a place that will pay you less than a decent waiter makes at a restaurant in nyc or l.a.

Also, don't specify the rank, as your friend says, let that be part of the negotiation should you get the job.

D

[janewales]

No doctorate, undergrad degree. I have experience teaching college credit courses to advanced high school students, summer programs. I don't assume that to mean much.

When I went to school the faculty was comprised almost entirely of individuals who were esteemed professionals in their field. In four years I don't think I had one instructor who held a doctorate, or a bachelors degree in some cases--and that school is considered to be one of the world's finest jazz performance programs (heh, jazz).

What you might not realize is that, while it is indeed common in music schools for many of the faculty to be practitioners who do not have doctorates, it's also common for many of those positions to be contract positions. The faculty with whom you dealt might well have been around for a long time, but that doesn't mean they held tenured or tenurable professorships.

In the school of music at my own university, there are about 30 tenure-track faculty, the vast majority of whom have PhDs. All the composition faculty have PhDs or DMAs, and there are no contract faculty in that division. There are over 50 contract faculty, most of them instrument, voice, and ensemble instructors; about a quarter of them have PhDs or DMAs too, and the others have Masters-level qualifications.

Conservatories and other free-standing schools might behave differently, but it does sound to me like you need to learn a bit more about how music works in universities. Are you still in contact with some of your old teachers? They might be able to give you a more realistic picture of what you could expect on the job market.