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[crumpet]

I recently had a really uncomfortable outing in which it became clear that a colleague is probably hooking up with an undergraduate. He also seems to be helping her with her work.

The student seems to be using him as much as he is using her. She has grown really 'comfortable' making demands on colleagues and has taken on a level of familiarity with staff that seems out of line.

I plan to say something to the student's advisor as I feel really uncomfortable with the situation and how it reflects on my department. I'm just not sure how to go about this.

I'm also feeling really uncomfortable and a bit angry that my colleague (who I like) is putting us in this situation.

Yuck.

Has anyone else dealt with this kind of situation?

[aandsdean]

A great deal depends on the policies of your school whether you should do anything at all.  If there's no prohibition in your faculty handbook or other official document, no matter how icky, you should STFU.

If there is such a prohibition, the person to talk to is NOT the student's advisor, but your department chair, who can if your evidence is compelling investigate your claims and take appropriate action. 

Pretty much everyone, unfortunately, has dealt with something like this.

Good luck.

[ruralguy]

+1 to aandsdean, but I'll also add that if you have no facts (didn't witness anything), then I'd also STFU.

[crumpet]

Thanks for the feedback...I'm surprised by the STFU advice. I realized this would be an awkward/difficult thing to talk about with anyone but thought it was an essential thing to do in this type of situation.

When I was a grad student, a neighboring department had a professor who shagged lots of students. The entire department got a bad reputation as a result. Even individual faculty members were labeled as people who couldn't be trusted because they allowed this to continue.

Maybe that's shaped my own views. It just doesn't feel right to STFU, especially as this could go on with a series of students for a long time...

[larryc]

Is the student behaving with too much familiarity towards you? If so, tell her as much ("That is Doctor Crumpet, please). If not STFU.

[crumpet]

Is the student behaving with too much familiarity towards you? If so, tell her as much ("That is Doctor Crumpet, please). If not STFU.

Erm, yes. I don't want to elaborate too much, but yes. I did make it clear she had crossed a boundary, but it doesn't seem to have made an impact.

[aandsdean]

Thanks for the feedback...I'm surprised by the STFU advice. I realized this would be an awkward/difficult thing to talk about with anyone but thought it was an essential thing to do in this type of situation.

When I was a grad student, a neighboring department had a professor who shagged lots of students. The entire department got a bad reputation as a result. Even individual faculty members were labeled as people who couldn't be trusted because they allowed this to continue.

Maybe that's shaped my own views. It just doesn't feel right to STFU, especially as this could go on with a series of students for a long time...

If there's no policy, you have nothing to say.  Talking about it is just gossip.  That's the source of the STFU advice.

If there's policy, and if you have a credible suspicion (the evidence is, at this point, a mere compelling supposition, which I actually would report to the chair, who will gather actual evidence if evidence there is), then you do need to say something.  But without the policy, it's just tattling.

[lyndonparker]

Thanks for the feedback...I'm surprised by the STFU advice. I realized this would be an awkward/difficult thing to talk about with anyone but thought it was an essential thing to do in this type of situation.

When I was a grad student, a neighboring department had a professor who shagged lots of students. The entire department got a bad reputation as a result. Even individual faculty members were labeled as people who couldn't be trusted because they allowed this to continue.

Maybe that's shaped my own views. It just doesn't feel right to STFU, especially as this could go on with a series of students for a long time...

If there's no policy, you have nothing to say.  Talking about it is just gossip.  That's the source of the STFU advice.

If there's policy, and if you have a credible suspicion (the evidence is, at this point, a mere compelling supposition, which I actually would report to the chair, who will gather actual evidence if evidence there is), then you do need to say something.  But without the policy, it's just tattling.

I teach at a SLAC, and I personally find the idea of faculty sleeping with students appalling. But AandSDean is correct--unless there is a policy against such behavior, leave it alone. Such policies vary widely, and the faculty member is a "wrongdoer" only if such behavior is prohibited.

[mended_drum]

At my SLAC, I would go to the faculty member in question, and say, "I know this is none of my business, but I thought you should know that there's a nasty rumor going around that you're sleeping with Student X.  Ridiculous, isn't it?  But he/she's not helping things with his/her oddly informal behavior with other faculty and staff.  Anyway, I figured you should be warned about what people are saying."

If it was just a rumor, the faculty member would be warned and could put distance between him/her and the student.  If not a rumor, the faculty member would still be warned that this could go south really quickly (we have a specific policy against it) and either find a way to deal with it or decide not to deal with it and live with the risks. 

No tattling.  No STFU while things go from bad to worse either.  A quiet, timely warning directly to the person involved. 

[crumpet]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll mull on it for a bit.

I'm hoping that if it was that obvious to me that it will become obvious to others in a better position to do something (I'm a new-ish hire).

Its just one of those stomach-churning issues that I had not expected to encounter in my department. After my own experiences of a neighbouring department in graduate school I'm particularly concerned by it.

I'll STFU for now at least and see what happens!

[larryc]

I'm a new-ish hire.

Its just one of those stomach-churning issues

Good Lord, STFU.

[curmudgeonintraining]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll mull on it for a bit.

I'm hoping that if it was that obvious to me that it will become obvious to others in a better position to do something (I'm a new-ish hire).

Its just one of those stomach-churning issues that I had not expected to encounter in my department. After my own experiences of a neighbouring department in graduate school I'm particularly concerned by it.

I'll STFU for now at least and see what happens!

Yeah, I honestly don't see why you're so invested in this, although I'm sure we don't have all the details. Even if the rumors are true, both student and professor are grown adults who can make their own decisions. Unless the student is taking one of the professor's classes, I don't see how it is anyone else's business.

[crumpet]

I honestly don't see why people would not be invested/upset by this.

Student has mental health issues (don't wish to elaborate).
I heard a member of staff offering to help them with their undergraduate thesis to an excessive degree.
This same member of staff kept travelling out with the student for twenty minute intervals during the course of an evening.
Member of staff made frank references to being wasted with the student off-campus on multiple occasions.
Member of staff and the student interact inappropriately next/to outside of my office so I'm aware of inappropriate help and interaction.
Student now invites herself to staff events (or perhaps by this member of staff)

Maybe I'm overly upset because of my own grad school experiences and hearing about friends/students in awkward situations in a neighbouring department. Maybe I'm upset because I happily call myself a feminist. I'm just a bit surprised to hear that others don't find this upsetting and wouldn't feel some compunction to do something...

[janewales]

Crumpet, the problem is we can't suggest what you should do, without knowing what your university's policies are, and without having a sense of what exactly it is that you know. There's a difference between suspicions of ickiness, and provable violations. With respect to mental health issues, there is a difference between a professional's assessment and that of an amateur bystander, and we don't know which you are.

If university policy explicitly forbids the kind of interaction you have actually witnessed, then of course you should report it to the appropriate authorities.

If the student has documented mental health issues, if you are qualified to assess those issues, and if the student is seeking your help OR is in some clear danger, then you could try contacting your university's counselling services to seek advice, but should be prepared to be told that the student is an adult and must seek help on his/ her own.

It is also possible that your university has no policy against fraternization between faculty and students. I can't imagine how you could prove that the help offered with the thesis is "to an excessive degree."

So, step one: what does your faculty handbook say about relationships between faculty and students?

Step two: does your university have a policy about how to deal with students in crisis?

[curmudgeonintraining]

I honestly don't see why people would not be invested/upset by this.

Student has mental health issues (don't wish to elaborate).
I heard a member of staff offering to help them with their undergraduate thesis to an excessive degree.
This same member of staff kept travelling out with the student for twenty minute intervals during the course of an evening.
Member of staff made frank references to being wasted with the student off-campus on multiple occasions.
Member of staff and the student interact inappropriately next/to outside of my office so I'm aware of inappropriate help and interaction.
Student now invites herself to staff events (or perhaps by this member of staff)

Maybe I'm overly upset because of my own grad school experiences and hearing about friends/students in awkward situations in a neighbouring department. Maybe I'm upset because I happily call myself a feminist. I'm just a bit surprised to hear that others don't find this upsetting and wouldn't feel some compunction to do something...

A student's mental health issues aren't your problem, unless that student is in your class and has documentation from the appropriate office.

What a member of the department staff does is not your business, unless you are the chair or the staff member's so-called excessive help is interfering with his or her other duties.

Who the staff member hangs out with in his or her free time, off hours, is not your business.

Are friends and significant others usually allowed to come to staff events? If so, I don't see the problem.

The feminist card is a red herring. The female student is an adult, capable of making her own decisions. Again, unless there is an explicit policy in the faculty handbook, there is nothing legally or ethically wrong with hanging out or even dating undergraduates, who are legally adults.