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[resident]

Here's the situation:

A student approached a colleague faculty member in my department seeking a mentor for a small research project. Faculty member approached me to say that an idea of mine (which I had told him about) would be a great fit for student. Colleague isn't clear on whether he wants to "borrow" my idea or wants me to mentor the student.

How to sort this out? Both of us would be equally capable of mentoring student. I would certainly be interested in mentoring the student, but would like to avoid having to straight out say "let me mentor the student". On the other hand, I don't want to simply give away my idea. Any advice appreciated.

Thanks

[sagit]

Well, it sounds like you have two choices then.  A) You tell your colleague that you are happy to mentor the student on that specific project.  Or, B) You tell your colleague that you are attached to the project and would like to continue working on it yourself, rather than giving it up for a student.  Or you could tell him both of these ideas and let him choose.

[anon99]

Well, it sounds like you have two choices then.  A) You tell your colleague that you are happy to mentor the student on that specific project.  Or, B) You tell your colleague that you are attached to the project and would like to continue working on it yourself, rather than giving it up for a student.  Or you could tell him both of these ideas and let him choose.

+1 I'd tell him/her both A and B and let them pick one.

[resident]

I wanted to update this topic because I would appreciate advice on how this further developed. So colleague - which is I'm fact my supervisor (sort of a dept chair) simply took over as the student's mentor using my idea (with slight modifications). I guess I should have managed the situation better and not have allowed this to happen, but then again I am new here and this other person is my supervisor. So then the student submitted - with my assistance - and received a small award for the project. Problem is my supervisor listed himself as the formal mentor and is now taking most credit for the project. How do I handle this situation? Do I talk to the person directly and express my concern? STFU and learn to never give up my ideas again? Can I at least include this in my tenure portfolio to make the best out of the whole thing? Thanks.

[youllneverwalkalone]

What was the project outcome? In other words, what exactly has it been "submitted"?

If it's a paper in a journal then I would go talk to your colleague and voice your concern, whereas if it is anything less than that better accept the situation and learn to be more protective in the future (or more clear since the beginning with regards to what you want your involvement to be).

[lizzy]

Problem is my supervisor listed himself as the formal mentor and is now taking most credit for the project. How do I handle this situation? Do I talk to the person directly and express my concern?

Don't say anything until your answers to the following questions show that doing so would produce some clear benefit for you (and getting it off your chest isn't necessarily a clear benefit):

What would you potentially gain by confronting your supervisor on this?

What could you potentially lose?

STFU and learn to never give up my ideas again?

Given the uneven power dynamic at play (untenured you vs. department head) and (I suspect) the lack of a substantive benefit from a confrontation, I'd go with the STFU option.

Can I at least include this in my tenure portfolio to make the best out of the whole thing?

If you had no direct responsibility/status on the project, it might seem odd to include it in your tenure packet. Do you have an e-mail or anything in writing that demonstrates that the student and/or supervisor based the project on your work?

[generalpost]

Good luck with this one. I was the major advisor to a doctoral student who had conducted her MA under my supervision and used my resources and ideas for her studies. She went on an internship with at least some "data". The following July I got an email from the student who 2 months earlier had told me she planned to move back to the university and defend the following fall. The July email informed me that she was sticking the 1st draft of her dissertation in my home mailbox and if she did not hear from me in 2 weeks she was scheduling her defense. i was traveling but available (only) by phone, something the dept knew. When I briefly returned home and got the email I replied that I would review the manuscript but the soonest she could  defend was the week before the fall semester; She would not be ready with a second draft until that time anyway and the committee is supposed to have 2 weeks to read it. Turned out a senior male faculty member (very senior and very dismissive of female faculty) was wording the emails and advising her. He told her to go ahead with the defense which he conducted (despite not being on the committee), said some very nasty things about me to the audience and rewrote all the paper work substituting his name for mine; Fraud, from my perspective. He is now listed in Dissertation Abstracts for a study that he had nothing whatsoever to do with. He also does not know a thing about the data-or even if there is any data! He refused to talk to me about it despite concerted efforts by me to contact him before, during and after the so-called defense. All attempts by me to have a formal grievance were denied by the Dean of Graduate Studies and every other relevant administrator. An interesting wrinkle to all of this (and one I haven't discussed much) is that, earlier in her training, this same student and her friend had gone into another student's MA data and monkeyed with it. They were caught and came to me, in tears,  to confess. The student said she was just looking to see if there were any possible findings she could include in a presentation submission to a conference. As they were within hours of the deadline, she did not ask permission from the lab-mate who owned the data. I took her at her word, stupidly. After consulting with colleagues, I decided to handle it in the lab-thinking it was an isolated event fueled by graduate school pressures, figuring I could monitor her activities in the future. The student whose data was tampered with was naturally upset and the lab atmosphere was vey strained from then onward. I should have recognized this as a much bigger issue than I did at the time. Back to the dissertation--which mimicked that earlier event in many ways-the university administration said that there is nothing wrong with a student moving to another faculty member's lab even the day of or after a defense. The original supervisor, who funded the project, can be ignored and completely left in the cold without any recognition for the ideas, time or resources used. More importantly, it is fine for a faculty member to approve a dissertation and conduct a defense without even talking to the faculty member who served as the actual advisor of the study. So, is there data? Who knows but this same student now works in a children's research oriented hospital. Good luck with that one. Funny how academics sit and ponder every little detail about the most unimportant bureaucratic minutia but when it comes to ethical important issues, they could care less. Good luck but don't expect fairness or reasonable processes-especially if you are female or a member of an underrepresented group and, you may want to stay away from hospital procedures based on studies involving my former student--just saying.

[generalpost]

An amendment to the post above. This same student did not go through the usual application/interview process to be admitted to the program. She contacted the department after the deadline and after interviews were completed claiming that her application had been submitted electronically but not received. Her claim was never questioned. She seemed to have good credentials -but who knows how truthful she was on her application. I guess the take home message here is that you should not expect colleagues to conduct themselves ethically, follow policies or grant you credit for your work. And, when an unscrupulous student colludes with an unethical colleague you are bound to be screwed!

[andriefeud]

ill agree with the opinion of sagit and actually "the servant would make greater knowledge than the master". I think it make sense for that.

[larryc]

Resident,  congratulate everyone then STFU. And never share an idea with your supervisor again.

[resident]

Thank you all for the insightful comments.