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[polly_mer]

My fellow forumites,

As many of you know, I have engineering degrees and teach engineering classes.  I do not, however, have the official licensure as a professional engineer (P.E.).

I've just had another interview where I was asked if I would be willing to go for P.E. licensure and I said yes, since last time I checked, basically I had to take a series of tests* and get a couple of people willing to examine my work and say, yeah, good enough, on a couple year timeline.

However, now that I've been investigating licensure for the state with the most recent interview, I am somewhat less enthusiastic since the new continuing education/mentoring aspect seems somewhat daunting. 

Any suggestions on whether the process is worth doing for someone who will have to restart the process?  Surely my 15-year-old FE scores can't still be valid.  The process looks less arduous than doing a second master's (for example), but more arduous than the three-hour-a-week-study-for-a-year that I had been picturing.

*all-day, freakin'-calculate-until-time-is-up tests, but I aced the FE as an undergrad, so I probably could do it again with a few months study and I'm told the test for the PE is easier, if only because of the extra experience.

[dept_geek]

Some schools require the PE in lieu of/addition to the PhD/DEng as part of the accreditation process. You will find this requirement ('strongly recommended') at many CCs that have ABET programs.

Yes, the exam was all day (2 parts, 4 hours per part, one day).. in myState, you take it with all the other PE/PS candidates. Some idjit behind you has a hacking cough or the sniffles. Someone is trying to study while taking the exam (flip-flip-flip-flip-flip-flip-flip-flip-flip-flip-flip)... Make sure you read up on what is allowed in the room (only certain kinds of calculators - bring the manual & an extra battery, no loose papers, no study guides w/answers, etcetcetc).

In myState, the cont ed part is pretty easy... papers and books count, as do taking a class at local uni, sitting on (engineering related) boards, NCEES exam writing & refresh, etc.. it's not hard to get the hours you need if you are paying attention. (teaching only counts, btw, if you are teaching a relevant course for the first time.. after that.. nope. it's no longer continuing ed, but part of your job... check with your local state board, yours might be different..) 

Yes, your FE scores should still be fine, but check with your local state board.

Consider either a review course or getting a set of recent study books and going through the questions. The hardest part is getting the timing down.. I found the PE easier in the sense that is was more focused than the FE.. harder in the fact that I hadn't done some aspects of it since I left undergrad school. I passed in on the second try.. had to take it twice because I was not smart enough to study like my life depended on it.. and blew off the parts I didn't feel like dealing with.. and turned out those were emphasized on the exam. Oh well. Live and learn.

Feel free to PM/contact me if you want more...

[polly_mer]

The tests don't scare me, but I am worried about the part where the claim is that I would need a mentor with five letters of recommendation from other PE's.  For the areas I'm considering, I'm not sure the entire state has five PE's in those areas.  Am I being scared off by boilerplate or is that a potential problem?

[dept_geek]

Check your PMs.

[pgher]

I got my PE a few years ago when I started doing some consulting.  (I have only had one job where it was actually important to be a PE.)  Yes, getting recommendations is sometimes a challenge, but I was fortunate to know a few.  What do you mean by "PE's in those areas"?  If it's a PE who is qualified to judge your work, that's enough--usually by broad discipline, say, EE, ME, ChemE, etc.  I don't think they necessarily have to be registered in the state where you are trying to get registered.

The longer you wait, the harder it gets. When I moved to a different state, I looked into getting an additional registration.  They wanted letters of recommendation from "all employers."  Reading carefully, and calling the state board, that would mean getting a letter from every company for which I did any consulting, in addition to my primary employers.  There might be a time window like 5 years, but even given that, there are a couple of companies that I don't think I could even find any more (like maybe out of business).

I found the morning section of the PE to be almost trivial (or maybe I over-studied), but the afternoon section kicked my butt.  Still passed, but I was sweating it.

Continuing ed for a research-oriented academic is easy: go to conferences, write papers, serve on committees for your academic society, all the things that I would do anyway.

[oldfullprof]

Don't you have to be primarily a mechanical to need a PE?  I'm naiive about this. 

[scampster]

Don't you have to be primarily a mechanical to need a PE?  I'm naiive about this. 

No. In civil it is really important (PEs need to sign off on all designs for roads, bridges, etc.), and I am guessing Polly is interviewing in another type that also finds it important. I think there are some engineering disciplines where it is less important though and no one really jumps through the hoops.

[polly_mer]

Don't you have to be primarily a mechanical to need a PE?  I'm naiive about this. 

Define need.

Mechanical and civil engineers who do something that has a lot of public impact (bridges, buildings, train switches) are required to be PE's to submit final designs.  That's to protect the public and is law in most places in the US.  In some cases, chemical and electrical engineers who have the same potential-to-maim-or-kill-thousands jobs also become PE's to meet the legal requirements.

However, academics may become PE's to facilitate the process for their students.  Accreditation is easier with more PE's on staff and getting enough letters of recommendation for students who take the FE (frequently a graduation requirement from solid programs) works better if more than just the one guy over in mechanical or civil can write the letters.  In addition, keeping accreditation is easier if several faculty in the geographic region are PE's so that they can serve on each other's boards as external experts.  Again, one doesn't have to have a PE to do that, but things can go more smoothly.

[biker]

Here's another thing I didn't see mentioned - I've heard faculty colleagues say they don't want a P.E., because then they'd be eligible to teach senior design.

Many departments "encourage" the acquisition of a P.E., but don't give any reward for getting it. I'd say go get it, but more for consulting and future job applications. The continuing ed requirements are trivial - in most states, three conference papers authored/co-authored per year will do the job. Or simply spending two days at a conference, even without a paper.

[polly_mer]

Here's another thing I didn't see mentioned - I've heard faculty colleagues say they don't want a P.E., because then they'd be eligible to teach senior design.

Interesting, considering how many people I know who teach senior design without the P.E. since I know of whole departments that don't have any P.E.'s.

[southerntransplant]

Here's another thing I didn't see mentioned - I've heard faculty colleagues say they don't want a P.E., because then they'd be eligible to teach senior design.

Interesting, considering how many people I know who teach senior design without the P.E. since I know of whole departments that don't have any P.E.'s.

It depends on the policy in place. We don't have to have a PE to teach senior design, while a friend's major R1 in the Southeast requires a PE. My subfield is so relatively rare that you won't find questions about it on the exam, definitely.

[biker]

I'm not aware of any ABET requirement that those who teach senior design must have registration. Or that any particular percentage of faculty members be licensed. But I have heard of programs getting into trouble with ABET for lack of professional engineer involvement in their senior design course.

[southerntransplant]

I'm not aware of any ABET requirement that those who teach senior design must have registration. Or that any particular percentage of faculty members be licensed. But I have heard of programs getting into trouble with ABET for lack of professional engineer involvement in their senior design course.

You're right. I haven't seen this either, but we as a matter of course engage with practitioners in the development and conduct of our capstone design courses. Any requirements regarding PEs are local policies.

[fedscholar]

Maybe this a dumb question, but if Polly_Mer has a PhD in the field, is a P.E. somewhat redundant?

I know in my field (ecology), I wrote a letter for a colleague recently who wanted to be recognized as a Certified Senior Ecologist by the Ecological Society of America. He had stopped at the MS level, but had an impressive work and publication record, so it made a lot of sense for him. For my PhD colleagues, I would say less so, since their qualifications are more self-evident.

So, is it about demonstrating mastery or street cred. in the working world?

[polly_mer]

So, is it about demonstrating mastery or street cred. in the working world?

Neither, really.  What it indicates is that I would be legally allowed to do certain consulting work for public entities as well as make accreditation easier to get and/or maintain for the program.  

A PE is a different qualification than a PhD.  A PE says that I probably know what I'm doing in a specific engineering discipline and probably won't kill anyone with a bad design out of gross ignorance.  A PhD means that I am a competent researcher, wrote a whole dissertation, and took a few graduate classes.  While I am an engineer by training, I cannot legally sign off on certain documents as an engineer because I am not a Professional Engineer.  I am merely a professional engineer.  Most of the time that distinction is irrelevant, but, in certain very narrowly defined situations, the difference is committing fraud, just like practicing medicine without a license.

A PE can't necessarily teach the classes that I teach or do the kind of research that I do.  A PhD doesn't necessarily have the ultraspecialized knowledge that is certified by passing the standardized national test.

I can be employed doing what I do with just a PhD.  However, certain things legally require a PE, even if that PE has only a BS, and certain things are desirable to be performed by a PE who has a PhD, even in academia.

So, no, it's not moot since I have a doctorate, but getting that PE is likely easier because of what I did to get that doctorate.