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[soymilk]

The Problem: 1967 era tri level home. Upstairs bath with bath/shower is directly above downstairs bath (shower only). When we take a bath upstairs, water drips into bathroom below--not gushing, but enough to soak a bath towel. About 1/4 of the ceiling in lower bath is damaged/warped due to this water. I have had a few visits from contractors. Here is their advice:

Contractor #1--actually a combination of plumber and a builder he recommended.
Diagnosis: Hard to say without looking under the bath but it is probably the faucet in the tub.
It also could be the bathtub drain.
Potentially dangerous if ceiling caves in lower bath.

Treatment: Complete removal of lower bathroom ceiling (builder), giving plumber access to faucet system. Once plumbing is done, replace lower bath ceiling with new drywall. They warn that tearing up ceiling will likely ruin our wallpaper (which is in good shape), requiring replacement.
They note that current 12 yo faucet upstairs is not up to code; will need to replace separate handles for hot/cold with single unit system (prevents scalding).

Angie's list reviews: Both rating highly, but it is noted that builder requested removal from Angie's list.

Contractor #2: Licensed builder
Diagnosis: Hard to say without looking behind faucets in upper bathroom (which will require removal of tiles behind it; we have matching tile replacements. 
Treatment: "this is a simple job, does not require a licensed plumber". If necessary, they will replace faucet with one that  we purchase (no mention of code requirements). When this is done, they will replace tiles and then repair (re drywall) portion of lower bath ceiling that has been damaged. He will need to re-texture the entire ceiling for an even look (it is currently a "popcorn-type" ceiling).
Reviews: Highly rated on Angie's list. One review mentioned they were relatively young & inexperienced.
I don't know quoted price yet but I'm guessing #1 will be much more expensive.
thoughts?

[clean]

Not sure what I would do, but before I did ANYTHING else, I would experiment.

Get a bucket or 2 and fill them in the downstairs bathroom and dump them in the tub.   Fill it up as far as it will go and pull the plug.  If there is a drip in the ceiling, then it is not the faucets, but the pan.  That could be a bigger job.

IF there is no leak, the just run the hot water for a while in the upstairs BR and check for leaks.  Then run only the cold water and be sure that there are no leaks.  At least then you will have narrowed it down.

Be aware that water is bad.  IF you have had a big leak, then you may have damage to the structure (more than a ceiling), and potentially mold. 

Once you have more information, you can make a more informed decision.

good luck, and let us know what the outcome is.

[larryc]

Clean must be a scientist. Great idea.

[brixton]

Leaks are the bane of my house's existence.  It has always take two or three roofer/plumbers/contractors/fill-in-the-blank to actually diagnose the problem.  Once a kitchen roof caved in on us -- we'd just redone our bathroom.  The contractor said it was ice-dams in the roof.  The insurance adjuster said no.  When the ceiling caved in, we found out that an iron(?) nail was on a copper(?) pipe.  (Some metal on some metal, anyways), the pipe galvanized and created the leak.  

So yeah -- good luck.

[bioteacher]

Is there an access panel to the plumbing in the upstairs bathroom? Can you make one? (We cut a hole in the wall behind our kitchen stove to get access and it's now a removable panel.) You want to access the wall that has the faucet and shower head. Opening that up will permit repairs of the faucet and water lines, and maybe even the drain to a degree. It will also let you assess any damage to the studs and plaster from the backside.

I would do what Clean suggested and determine which is the primary leak source. There may be multiple sources, so be prepared for that.


Angie's list is sort of like rate my professors for contractors, IMO. Look around your neighborhood for contractor signs or trucks. Talk to your neighbors about who they have had good luck with. Get written estimates and check them out with the BBB. 

[antiphon1]

The leak could also be caulking around the tub.  Splash some water where the tub meets the wall and on the floor.  You'll see the drip downstairs. 

Chime on cutting an access hole.  I'd recommend at least trying to see what might be the problem before you agree to a gut job on the bathrooms. 

[bioteacher]

It's unlikely due to the caulking around the tub. Tubs have a lip that goes up behind the drywall. While the bottom edge of the drywall might get some water damage from poor caulking, it's not going to account for the leak downstairs.

[biomancer]

I like Clean's suggestions but have one amendment:

Let the water from the buckets sit in the tub for a while.  If there is no leak, add a bit more, then drain the water and look for leaks.


I once had a leak that turned out to be from where the overfill-preventing drain tied into the tub, and was easily fixed by tightening the screws on it.



Also, check for plumbing access panels in the shared walls behind the bathroom - they're probably in a linen closet or similarly easily-hidden spot.  I found my leak via the access panel.

[oldadjunct]

[quote authorbioteacher link=topic=85357.msg2057536#msg2057536 date=1326580603]
It's unlikely due to the caulking around the tub. Tubs have a lip that goes up behind the drywall. While the bottom edge of the drywall might get some water damage from poor caulking, it's not going to account for the leak downstairs.
[/quote]

This is not entirely accurate.  As I learned from painful experience, if the caulking is not sound, drywall can wick moisture up from one side of the tub (or in my case, shower stall) lip and then release the moisture down and in back of that lip.

More to the point, the downstairs ceiling is already damaged, pull it out and inspect from there.  You will either see the path of the previous leaks, or you will see the actual leaks by running the tub above.  In either case, the ceiling has to go.

[wet_blanket]

I would get other contractors in until I had some agreement on what the most likely problem is.  Did you ask contractor 2 about contractor 1's hypothesis and why s/he thought it was less likely?

Of course, I'm not a homeowner and I'm assuming that a first look/diagnosis is free or has minimal cost.

[oldadjunct]

I would get other contractors in until I had some agreement on what the most likely problem is.  Did you ask contractor 2 about contractor 1's hypothesis and why s/he thought it was less likely?

Of course, I'm not a homeowner and I'm assuming that a first look/diagnosis is free or has minimal cost.

Yep, we got us a leak here.

[bioteacher]

WB, it often costs $80+ for the initial "service call" where they grace you with their presence and step through your front door. If you're lucky, they'll give you a 4-6 hr window in which to expect their visit. More often, you'll wait all day for them to appear. Or not.  And they never seem to apologize for this.

And without x-ray vision or a magic book of answers, they cannot diagnose the cause of the leak without finding an access panel or tearing out the ceiling below the bathroom. That's why others have suggested ways to identify the problem.

That said, I did manage to get an electrician here to give me a free estimate on some work I had done and they actually came at a set time. But that's the exception rather than the rule.

[larryc]

Since that downstairs ceiling is going to have to go anyway go ahead and cut it out and see what you can see.

[clean]

ince that downstairs ceiling is going to have to go anyway go ahead and cut it out and see what you can see.

Im not sure what you are going to see, but I think that I would cut it down so that I would have control over it rather than just letting it fall and make a huge mess when it falls by its own accord.  (Is it drywall or plaster?  Drywall is easier to deal with, so if it is plaster, I would not touch it).

But I would still check do the experiment to try to find where the problem is first.

One of the dangers of uncovering the ceiling is that there may already be mold there.  IF there is and you uncover it, you may be releasing those spores to the rest of the house.  Keeping the ceiling in tact, means that you can still use that bathroom and any mold is sealed in there.

It is not a fun thing to deal with, but hopefully the weather is such that it can be done easily... maybe there are contractors that would rather work indoors just now, so hopefully, you can get a 'deal' or at least get it done quickly.

One last thought.... Is there a light or fan in the ceiling?  you may want to cut the power to it at the fuse box.  Dont play with wet ceiling and electricity.

[larryc]

Presumably opening the ceiling would provide a view of and access to the bath tub drain. If that turns out to be the culprit the fix might be fairly easy. You are right about the mold though.