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[zoecat22]

My husband finally got his tenure last summer so we should be happy, right?

However, I feel really depressed. I feel like the misery is permanent now, and I can’t stop thinking – “Was it really worth it?”  We have been here seven long, COLD years. No matter how hard I’ve tried to like this place or make it our home, I still can’t stand the weather, the middle-of-nowhere location, and just how gloomy it feels here most of the time. Yes, we knew about it when we moved here 7 years ago but my husband didn’t have any other tenure track job offers and I was 36 weeks pregnant with our daughter so my brain really wasn’t working very well at the time.

And now here we are, tenured. Mission accomplished but at what cost? Looking back, we have sacrificed pretty much everything for his tenure, and our quality of life and relationship has deteriorated to the point that we are constantly yelling at each other and blaming each other for everything – this place, this tenure struggle, this life in general. I don’t see this situation getting any better, and I don’t want our daughter to see us like this anymore.

I have to say that my husband is happy with his lab and current position but he seems to be willing to try to move elsewhere if it can make our family happy again. We don’t have any other ties to this area except his job (and, of course, tenure). I myself work online but my income is much smaller than his and not enough to support the family. Both of us would really like to move back to the West Coast someday. Sometimes I think that our relationship just hasn't weathered the upstate NY climate well (pun intended).

I just can't decide which situation is worse - staying somewhere I hate for the sake of my husband’s tenure or moving somewhere better but having a husband who might resent me for making him move. Any thoughts? I sure would appreciate any advice here.

[aprilmay]

Sorry to read you are having these difficulties, but congratulations on your husband's tenure. Your subject line is whether someone would give up tenure, but it is completely possible to get a new position with tenure. That is what your husband should aim for, and although it will be difficult, it can be done. Giving up tenure is a choice he may have to make if he goes to a "higher" level institution.

Although the location and stress of tenure seem to have taken their toll, are you sure your problems are truly and completely rooted in these factors? Many people stay happily married in what they consider undesirable locations and tenure stresses that even end in tenure denial. Do you think your marriage would have no problems if you were in another location? Or just that it would be better? Good luck.

[clean]

There are job postings right here on the Chronicle.  Are there any jobs in his field in areas that you think would meet your needs?

Would I give up tenure?  Yes, but honestly, now that I have it, it is a relief. 

Still, in this industry, if you want a raise (in some fields anyway), the only way to get one is to move.  So for a sufficient raise, I would certainly consider looking and moving.

Tenure is sometimes related to handcuffs.  It absolutely has a value and it usually takes a lot of job or family dissatisfaction, or a chunk of change (or combinations) to entice someone to give it up. 

Remember though, that starting over (even on a fast track) will mean going through a lot of the hurdles you have just overcome.  Are you really willing to go through it again?

I m not sure how to ask this... Is it really the area or do you really want to be married to him?  (It may not be the area.... just asking.)

[larryc]

Step One is (for him) to apply to the damn jobs. Is he doing so, or just talking about it?

[zoecat22]

Just talking so far. He thinks that he won't be competitive to leave his current institution/position without at least a few more substantial grants. He is at a private R1 but his field in physical sciences is traditionally very poorly funded. Nevertheless, he has been bringing in some serious $$ for his institution - enough to get him a tenure here - but still thinks he needs more funding to move/apply elsewhere. I really don't know if this is "being careful" or an excuse not to apply.

[zoecat22]

It's really the area...honestly can't stand this place (tried long and hard to like it, even bought a house here)...both of us still want to be married (to each other).

[polly_mer]

Whether needing more money is being careful or an excuse depends on where you want to go.  If you are shooting for Berkeley or Stanford, then, yeah, he needs more funding to move just after tenure.  If he would be willing to go to a less research-intensive place than where he currently is, then he might have enough funding.

However, and I write this as a scientist who cut way back on research for family reasons, doing that cut on research can feel like an amputation.  Getting over being cold is nothing compared to someone who will be resentful over killing a research career (and believe me I hate cold and wear multiple sweaters as the temperature drops below 75 deg. F).  After all, you can't be sure that moving back to the promised land will fix your problems.  I write that as someone who bought that argument once, moved for a geographic location, and still listened to voluminous complaints about all the less-desirable parts of that location, which had been forgotten.

Some people just complain.  Perhaps you are one of those people (I am one of those people married to one of those people) and what you should be doing is trying ways to treat each other better now instead waiting until a move to the promised land.  Amazingly, that made our situation better even while exiled from the promised land for the second time.

[totoro]

I was tenured at a private R1 in upstate NY (there are three). Two years after getting tenure I quit and moved to Australia where my wife got a job (she was just completing her PhD in another US state). Four years on after a couple of fixed term positions  I'm a full professor here. So, yes, it can be worth giving up tenure. Your husband should definitely be applying for jobs and give up tenure if necessary. What I did - give up tenure without a job offer - is probably a bit extreme :)

[zoecat22]

Thank you so much, everyone, for your valuable advice. I greatly appreciate your thoughts on this situation. Sadly, my husband seems to be very opposed to the idea of just going out on the market and seeing what happens. It has to be the “right time”, whenever that might be.

You are right, polly_mer,  I am probably one of those people who just complain :). I am also just really tired. No sane person would sacrifice family for this tenure like we did (it's a really, really very long story).  I feel stupid and naive for thinking it would eventually get back to normal.

[clean]

I feel really depressed

Have you seen a doctor?  This is sometimes a medical condition, and even if the cause of the depression is notphysical, the effect does cause many, many problems, including marriage problems.

I dont know the cause or the effects, but it is something to address.  Fixing this may help the rest of your issues come into focus.

Do you work outside of the home?

Are you interested in taking more classes or getting a(nother) degree?

It sounds like you feel trapped where you are, so taking control of some aspect of your world may help.

And take advantage of the benefits that being associated with a university include.  Take a Spring Break, get away for a few weeks in the Summer.  Spend Christmas in Bermuda next year.  Make a plan and start setting some money aside.  It will be cheaper than a divorce,and I may be wrong, but I think that thought has crossed your mind.

Keep us informed.

[elbowteaching]

zoecat22 I can fully relate your position.  I am currently in a very similar position, spouse hates the place, the cold, bitterness, and of course our marriage is completely on the rocks, but I don't think it is the place that is to be entirely blamed; two kids and all the pressures of health, wealth, tenure, schools, etc has really really gotten to us.  So I am tentatively on the market, willing to give up hard earned tenure, but we are really interested only in one place, not sure I will get that position, but I have started to try.  Speaking as the applicant, I have to admit that I am intimidated by the market.  When I came into the market as a fresh Ph.D, I had some success, but now I am not that hot commodity.  I did enough to make tenure, but maybe not enough to elevate myself to stardom.  So yes, hitting the market is an option, it will test the family to the core because now we have to think moving an entire establishment, doctors, dentists, mortgage, specialists, babysitters...just thinking about it alone makes my head spin, I need to lie down now.

[macaroon]

He may be able to move, and if he does, he'll likely either be given tenure outright or be on a very fast clock (2 years, perhaps).  It's pretty unlikely that he'd be going through quite as much to get tenure at the new place as he did at your current location. Moving is fine, and he might be able to do it.

However, the bad news is that jobs at his level are much less numerous than ones for baby professors.  YOU need to be prepared that it might take a while - and if it takes 5 years, will you be willing to move your daughter at that awkward age?

So what are YOU going to do in the meantime?

Try to get a face-time job.

Do you ski?  Buy skis.  Don't like downhill?  Buy cross-country skis.

See a doctor about your depression.

Did he apply for anything this cycle?  If not, you're staring down at least another 18 months where you are.  You need to fix what you can, because there is no quickie escape hatch here.

[zoecat22]

I have a Master’s and teach at two (soon to be three) online universities. Lots of hours with little pay, but it still keeps me in the field and I can still be on time to get my daughter on/off her school bus. When she gets a bit older, I plan to work more outside the house but I really don’t want her to go to before/after school care for now.

I don’t get to have a summer or spring break but I usually get 4 days off every two months at one of my schools (unfortunately, they always seem to fall on the busiest work weeks at the other one). At my husband’s institution, taking even a week off during the summer is frowned upon. This is probably a really dumb question to ask, but is it common to take a few weeks off in the summer at other institutions? In his department, people will complain if you don’t respond to email within a couple hours, even on weekends. If we are lucky, we might travel together for a conference once or twice a year (when it’s close enough to drive there) but that’s about it vacation wise.

[helpful]

What are professors at your husband's institution supposed to do during the summer? Only research?

Most people I know take at least 2 to 3 weeks off every summer when they are on 12 month contracts. Sometimes even more. That sounds pretty strange to be obligated to only take one week off a summer!

[macaroon]

I have a Master’s and teach at two (soon to be three) online universities. Lots of hours with little pay, but it still keeps me in the field and I can still be on time to get my daughter on/off her school bus. When she gets a bit older, I plan to work more outside the house but I really don’t want her to go to before/after school care for now.

Is it bad, or something?  My daughters do homework at aftercare.  They love it, and they get mad at me if I pick them up early.  Fine by me!

But, okay, you're not leaving the house all day and wondering why you're depressed?   Perhaps you might want to tweak this one a bit?

At my husband’s institution, taking even a week off during the summer is frowned upon. This is probably a really dumb question to ask, but is it common to take a few weeks off in the summer at other institutions?

"A few" isn't common at mine.  One is common, two isn't rare.  It's hard to leave the lab unattended.