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Author Topic: generous gift received: would you "pay it forward"?  (Read 8376 times)
clean
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« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2012, 02:32:50 PM »

Im not saying not to give a gift to the OPs brother, Im simply saying that they should not pay it from that gift. 

The OP's parents gave a gift essentially to their grandchild. 

IF the OP AND Spouse think that they have additional money to spend on brother, that is another matter.

THIS money was given for another purpose and to divert it from that task is a breech of fiduciary duty, IMHO.
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"The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am"  Darth Vader
antiphon1
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« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2012, 02:42:00 PM »

Put the money in an account for your child.  Send your brother some money if you feel he needs help. But, please, don't conflate your parent's generosity with your brother's financial problems. 
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irhack
Marshwiggle
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« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2012, 09:45:22 AM »

I want to disagree with the posters who say if the OP gives her brother money, it will never end.

We gave IRSpouse's sister money here and there when she was in school (and also a single mother). She has not asked for money since, uses her degree to make a decent living, and even repaid us much of the money we sent (which we had no expectation of). This was ages ago. We've also helped out his brother here and there, again, he's never asked for a dime.
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ruralguy
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« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2012, 10:09:13 AM »


Unless your brother has asked for money, I wouldn't give this to him.

If you have a good relationship with him, then perhaps call him or visit, and see whats up. If he seems destitute, then discuss giving him a bit to help out (and if I were you, I'd pay the bills directly, not just hand him the money, unless you think its ok if he spends it on a new mountain bike ot whatever).

But in today's dollars, 1400 ain't much. But it could be more significant in the future, especially if used as seed money for something you'd like contribute to in the future. So, unless your bro really really needs it, I'd invest or save it or maybe just even spend it on whatever you want.

I would fear getting your bro addicted to OPM (other people's money). My bro did this (not with me), and even with a great job now, he still ,hits up his well off parents and inlaws.
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systeme_d_
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ஜ۩۞۩ஜ


« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2012, 07:56:30 PM »

I think the "addiction" idea is bizarre.  Sure, some people are jerks.  If your brother is a jerk, then you probably wouldn't even consider giving him money anyway.

My brother once sent me $900, unasked.  It allowed me to keep up with rent and to pay another overdue bill, and frankly made a huge difference for me that year.

I hadn't asked him for the money in the first place, and I still would never ask him.  He had just heard (through my mother, actually) that I was in a tough spot.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 07:58:28 PM by systeme_d_ » Logged

hungry_ghost
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« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2012, 12:45:32 AM »

I think the "addiction" idea is bizarre.

I agree. And ditto to everyone who suggested not giving money because he might want more (my post could also be mis-read that way, but that's not what I intended.)

From OP:
He has never asked me for money. He doesn't really even tell me about his money troubles [. . .]  I'm also not sure how he would feel about it. My guess is that he would take the money if offered but would feel pretty embarrassed about it.

The concerns she mentioned about giving money were (a) fearing he would "blow" it on something instead of using it to pay bills, and (b) knowing that it wouldn't even touch the real, major problems (loans, for example). But she didn't say anything about asking for more. Not everyone who is bad with money is a greedy mooch.

OP, how about an update? Did you make any decisions?
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hipgeek
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« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2012, 07:22:05 AM »

A gift this generous would make me extremely uncomfortable (despite how much I could use it).

I don't think your brother would get addicted to the money or keep hitting you up.  I concur with the poster that suggested you visit with him and if his financial woes come up naturally in conversation, then you can offer help. 

Also, I think you may have to get away from thinking of paying this specific amount forward, since it's from your in-laws intended for the baby (not that they'll ask and check up on you, but, you never know....).  Instead try thinking "Oh, wow, this really helps and now I have a little more of my own money free that I'd earmarked for baby, savings, whatever.  Now what can I do with my money that'd be good and useful." 

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emblem
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« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2012, 08:10:58 AM »

Thanks all for the input! It has been really great to get so many different perspectives.

For now, we have added the money to our savings account and are holding off sending anything to my brother. I appreciate the suggestions not to think about this particular 1400 dollars as either staying or going to my brother. As my husband likes to say, "dollars don't have names on them." But my in-laws' generosity encouraged me to want to act generously toward someone else, even if its not paying that exact money forward.

Regarding the suggestion of visiting and talking with him in person, we were just there over the holidays (it is 1000 miles away from ttville). We talked about his job search possibilities but not specifically about the fact that he has no money (although it is clear that he does not). My mother is literally paying for everything (which I also hate because she can't really afford it either). My mother is actually getting ready to move here to ttville to be closer to my husband and I and her soon-to-be grandson. (As a side note, my husband and I will also likely be helping her with the cost of her move and she will be living with us for a while until she can find suitable housing. However, she will be a huge help with the baby and so, I see any money that this costs us as 100% for the baby!) My brother will continue living in her house in hometown until it sells. I have no idea what he is going to do for food money once she leaves or for housing once her house sells. I left out all these details in my first post because they are only tangentially related, but as you can see, the situation is actually somewhat more complicated than I originally stated. (my brother's situation is about to be made worse because my mom is moving to help me out... GUILT!!!)

Anyway, husband and I are thinking that we will likely send my brother some money, but will wait until my mom has moved here, if he still hasn't found any source of income at that point. He will also likely physically help my mom with her move (e.g., drive the truck here), so we could talk to him and give him the money in person then.

Thanks again for all the advice! If anyone has more, keep it coming :)   
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hipgeek
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« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2012, 08:15:10 AM »

He will also likely physically help my mom with her move (e.g., drive the truck here), so we could talk to him and give him the money in person then.


I think this is a great idea, esp. since it can be looked at as generous payment for services, so that he doesn't feel overly awkward about taking a "handout" or whatever.
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anon99
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« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2012, 09:26:48 AM »

We talked about his job search possibilities but not specifically about the fact that he has no money (although it is clear that he does not). My mother is literally paying for everything (which I also hate because she can't really afford it either).

Your brother is an adult and you are not responsible for his financial position.  Do not feel guilty because your mom wants to move closer to you and her grandson.  Is your brother actively looking for a job?  You mentioned he has a PhD, is he restricting his job searches to academic position?  If so, yes you should talk to him when he comes about looking for any job that will help pay the bills.  If he's living in your mom's house once she moves, is he going to be able to pay the bills and maintain the house?  Has he thought about tutoring university or high school students?

Your heart is in the right place, and there is nothing wrong with a one time gift to him; but continual financial support won't help him in the long run.
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clean
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« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2012, 12:32:57 PM »

He needs ANY job just now.  Even if he landed a TT job today, he wont get a check before September.  What is he going to do for food for those 9 months? 

One of my former girlfriends has an MA in Finance, and owns 9 houses.  She found herself in a cash flow bind related to taxes, I think, and is now working as a bar tender at Olive Garden.  She is bringing home $700 a month after major deductions for taxes.  It is not a lot of money, but it helps.  IF he has a place to stay, and no real other expenses for living, $2800 a month take home is not terrible. 

He needs a JOB, not $$.

Finally, what field is his degree?  Are there any jobs in that area (will he be able to get a job at all)?
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emblem
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« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2012, 04:15:17 PM »

Quote
Your brother is an adult and you are not responsible for his financial position.  Do not feel guilty because your mom wants to move closer to you and her grandson.

Thank you for this, anon99. I know that its true, but I just have a hard time remembering it all the time.

Regarding my brother's job search: he is not looking for a tt position. His phD is in philosophy, so no it is not a degree that is in high demand inside or outside the academy. He is planning to attend law school in the fall (in homestate, about 45 minutes away from hometown). So he will be moving there in August and getting an apartment (paid for by more student loans, I'm sure). The problem will arise if my mom's house sells before August. When he originally moved back in with my mom last summer, his hope was to pick up a class or two adjuncting at the local state university in hometown. He has quite a bit of adjuncting experience accumulated at this point. Unfortunately, the position did not materialize, and apparently isn't going to happen for spring semester either. He was teaching a test prep course for Kaplan, but that ended. Before he moved in with my mom, he was delivering pizzas in a different city, but apparently has not been able to get hired in hometown. (Plus his car hasn't been reliable enough for a delivery job.) He has recently completed the necessary training to enter the system as a substitute teacher for the local high schools. It doesn't pay very well, but if he can get 3 or 4 jobs a week, he could at least make 150 or 200 dollars a week (enough for gas and food). I agree with you clean that at this point he just needs ANY job and that sending him money is not going to really fix anything. What he needs is a job. If anyone knows anyone looking for a philosopher... :)

That's totally taking the thread off in a different direction, but since a few of you asked about the job situation, I thought I would provide more details.

Thinking about this more and all of your thoughtful feedback has made me start to realize that perhaps my desire to send him money isn't so much about helping him, since rationally I know that no amount of money I could possibly send will really help his situation... its about making myself feel less guilty for having a good life (husband I adore, job I love, mom about to be close by, etc). Is this what they call middle class guilt or is it just little sister guilt? is it a gendered thing?
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clean
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« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2012, 06:08:15 PM »

How is your brother feeling (self worth wise)?   From what you have described, he seems to be reacting and not acting.  He is taking classes and he will soon be able to substitute teach... but that opportunity only lasts five more months. Then what will he do until classes start?  That does not seem to be a realistic 'plan' to me.  As I have said, he needs ANY job.  Even McDonalds would pay more than temp work for a school.   

From the beginning, his 'plan' was a failure.  Adjuncting is ok as a supplement, but it is not a plan.  Here, we pay adjuncts all of $3000 a class for the entire term. 

If his self esteem is low, that may be keeping him not only from looking but for coming across well in an interview.

I dont know how to help his esteem, but I think that would be one of hte areas that could be addressed.

You should not feel guilty. You can help in many (non monetary) ways. 

Good luck to you and your brother.
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"The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am"  Darth Vader
irhack
Marshwiggle
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« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2012, 08:38:26 PM »

Ugh, has he really thought through the law school thing? It's certainly no guarantee for a job, leaving him massively in debt on top of his other problems.
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