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[polly_mer]

My argument is not that we should be pushing people who aren't qualified into the field, based upon a commitment to "diversity." It is, rather, that we need to be looking at the folks like your students who come in with a dream and a commitment and a very good understanding of the kinds of challenges that students who come from groups that are under-represented in our teaching force face, and doing a far better job of preparing them for the work needed before they ever hit your classroom.

I think we're actually on the same side.  I'm happy to do the extra work with students who know they are missing background and are ready to do what it takes to get qualified.  Some of my most enjoyable students come from the inner city or backwoods and work off their butts to make a C, in large part because they want to know and then they want to teach.  I'll take those students over the sleepwalking-through-life-and-damn-why-isn't-my-B-an-A?-suburban students any day of the week.

The sad part are the students who fling accusations of racism and classicism at me and then quit, even though they are making progress and they have the dream.  Well, no, I'm not being Xist in pointing out that your math is inadequate.  You can be mad at me for pointing that out (i.e., doing my job) or you can come in for extra help and we'll work enough problems at your pace so that you get better (i.e., also doing my job).  Your choice.  Too many students choose to be mad and drop out of school.  I don't know what to do about that since the people who do take me up on the offer tend to get better fairly quickly.

[msparticularity]

My argument is not that we should be pushing people who aren't qualified into the field, based upon a commitment to "diversity." It is, rather, that we need to be looking at the folks like your students who come in with a dream and a commitment and a very good understanding of the kinds of challenges that students who come from groups that are under-represented in our teaching force face, and doing a far better job of preparing them for the work needed before they ever hit your classroom.

I think we're actually on the same side.  I'm happy to do the extra work with students who know they are missing background and are ready to do what it takes to get qualified.  Some of my most enjoyable students come from the inner city or backwoods and work off their butts to make a C, in large part because they want to know and then they want to teach.  I'll take those students over the sleepwalking-through-life-and-damn-why-isn't-my-B-an-A?-suburban students any day of the week.

The sad part are the students who fling accusations of racism and classicism at me and then quit, even though they are making progress and they have the dream.  Well, no, I'm not being Xist in pointing out that your math is inadequate.  You can be mad at me for pointing that out (i.e., doing my job) or you can come in for extra help and we'll work enough problems at your pace so that you get better (i.e., also doing my job).  Your choice.  Too many students choose to be mad and drop out of school.  I don't know what to do about that since the people who do take me up on the offer tend to get better fairly quickly.

Polly, just as a thought, you might try acknowledging that the system is racism and classist, and that they have certainly suffered unfairly from that. Then, when you offer to help them, you can avoid seeming to define them as inadequate, and you're also not denying their experience and perceptions, but rather making it clear that you want to help change that system.

[polly_mer]

Polly, just as a thought, you might try acknowledging that the system is racism and classist, and that they have certainly suffered unfairly from that. Then, when you offer to help them, you can avoid seeming to define them as inadequate, and you're also not denying their experience and perceptions, but rather making it clear that you want to help change that system.

Perhaps I'm being defeatist, but my efforts in that area haven't worked very well with people who come to me from the start with the chip on their shoulder.  I do very well with people who start out acknowledging that they came from crummy backgrounds and who need the pep talk to keep trying.  I do ok with people who are just finding out how crummy their schools were and need the pep talk to keep trying.

I don't do very well with students who start with "I don't want to be here, but I am an A student and yet you gave me a 2 out of 3 on this quiz.  Racist!", even during the parts of class where I am the cheeriest cheerleader that I can possibly be as I acknowledge that these parts are difficult for everyone, but let's give it a shot together.  Those people were lost before they started.

I also don't do very well with the students who make practically no effort (as in missing 5 of the first 7 classes) and then scream that I'm a racist/classist/whatever for assuming that everyone can attend class ALL the time instead of just "most" of the time.  Whatever else is going on, that part of my class and indeed most of college isn't going to change, even if that is some sort of -ist.

[msparticularity]

Polly, just as a thought, you might try acknowledging that the system is racism and classist, and that they have certainly suffered unfairly from that. Then, when you offer to help them, you can avoid seeming to define them as inadequate, and you're also not denying their experience and perceptions, but rather making it clear that you want to help change that system.

Perhaps I'm being defeatist, but my efforts in that area haven't worked very well with people who come to me from the start with the chip on their shoulder.  I do very well with people who start out acknowledging that they came from crummy backgrounds and who need the pep talk to keep trying.  I do ok with people who are just finding out how crummy their schools were and need the pep talk to keep trying.

I don't do very well with students who start with "I don't want to be here, but I am an A student and yet you gave me a 2 out of 3 on this quiz.  Racist!", even during the parts of class where I am the cheeriest cheerleader that I can possibly be as I acknowledge that these parts are difficult for everyone, but let's give it a shot together.  Those people were lost before they started.

I also don't do very well with the students who make practically no effort (as in missing 5 of the first 7 classes) and then scream that I'm a racist/classist/whatever for assuming that everyone can attend class ALL the time instead of just "most" of the time.  Whatever else is going on, that part of my class and indeed most of college isn't going to change, even if that is some sort of -ist.

Yup--sometimes even our very best efforts cannot do anything about a situation that has already progressed that far.