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[monsterx]

In the past, I've posted here about my problems getting promoted

http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,72230.msg1705839.html#msg1705839

and about my dysfunctional department:

http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,41704.0.html

The short version of the above threads is my field is heavily discriminated against in the department and faculty where I work (due to a change of focus, and bad leadership).  I am on the tenure track with no possiblity of tenure, but landed a big prestigious grant last year, and formed a research team (in my discipline, and in the department as a whole such large grants are almost unheard of).   I leveraged the grant to get promoted to associate, but they would not bargain about early tenure, nor offer reassurances that I was likely to get it.  I decided to leave , and landed another associate professor position at another university, with tenure right off the bat, to start next year.  Although I signed a contract back in May, I just told my department head about it a couple weeks ago; I figured the sh*t will start to rain down, and didn't want that to happen sooner than it had to.  In January I have to notify the funding agency to transfer the grant, and this month was the when they publish the course catalogue, so I didn't want a certain colleague to be stuck teaching my course, which was out of her expertise.       

So I offered my graduate students who are very much integrated into my project, positions at the new university, and they agreed to come.  They are beginning to get into their field work, which involves long periods
spent in the field, and so the location of their university doesn’t matter that much to them. 
But now the DGS has started to meet with them (which is expected and understandable) , but he’s started telling them things, like I don’t have their interests in mind, they need to be careful that they actually DO get offers from the new university – that I’m just lying to them, and haven’t shared the full story, and so on and so forth.  It’s pretty underhanded.   I have been very forthcoming with information and ethical to my graduate students the whole time. 

Furthermore, they are trying to pressure me to leave substantial sums here – in order to pay my graduate students via my current place (which would require going through hoops, has risks involved, and would not make my new employer happy).  I told them they were free to make whatever offer they want to my students, who can make up their minds themselves, but I wouldn’t be leaving any money. 
I feel  pretty much besieged, although I think if I sit tight, do my job, keep in touch with my students, and stonewall the administration, I should be ok.  I’m worried, though, that there will be more shenanigans to get their hands on my grant money, and they are likely to make my grad students pawns in this fight. 

[jackit_n_tyy]

Sorry to hear your administration is so negative.

Some things  you can do include:

-- making sure you have regular meetings with them, so they know that you do in fact have their best interests in mind.

-- Having the DGS from the new institution call each of them to talk about the transition process, flag any problems now, etc.

-- Actually take a road-trip to new institution.  After all, they need to look for housing, right?

-- Be open with them about the difficulty of running your program at the current institution, *without* sounding bitter or overly disappointed.  That's just life and look what a great opportunity we have.

Whatever else happens, do not leave money.  If you think relations are bad now...

Good luck!

[wanna_writemore]

Is there a way you can make sure your grad students understand that the politics are about you and not (directly) about them?  It would be good if they knew that you are trying to keep them out of this to the extent possible.  They need to learn to disengage - non-committal acknowledgement of the negative things people say to them about you in the hallways and then excusing themselves to the library, the lab, a meeting, whatever.  They need to know that you don't need them to defend you.

[jackit_n_tyy]

Is there a way you can make sure your grad students understand that the politics are about you and not (directly) about them?  It would be good if they knew that you are trying to keep them out of this to the extent possible.  They need to learn to disengage - non-committal acknowledgement of the negative things people say to them about you in the hallways and then excusing themselves to the library, the lab, a meeting, whatever.  They need to know that you don't need them to defend you.

Agree completely.  They will hear stuff but they need to know it's nothing they need to engage:  they'll be OK.

[anon99]

Some things  you can do include:

-- Having the DGS from the new institution call each of them to talk about the transition process, flag any problems now, etc.

-- Actually take a road-trip to new institution.  After all, they need to look for housing, right?

Whatever else happens, do not leave money.  If you think relations are bad now...

+1 though the road trip might not be feasible.  Let them know that the choice to go to the new place is up to them, but if they want to stay at the old place then lay out the realities.  Getting the offers for grad student positions at new place, will lessen DGS's comments.

[monsterx]

Thanks for the replies.  It is more or less what I planned to do, but it is good to get confirmation, as there's pressure to do it differently, and insinuation that I'm a Bad PI for wanting to take the money and students with me.

I can probably take them to visit the new place - one I already did when I visited some collaborators - but I'm a little worried about getting approval for the expenses.  I have a bit of research money which I can use as I please - left over from an industry project - but it still has to go via Finance.  That would also give them a chance to meet with the DGS and some colleagues at the new university.   They'll also fit in better there than here academically, although there'll be a lot of uncertainty in their minds.  We are in Europe, and it is a shift of country as well as university, involving a new univerisity system, although there are similar conditions for graduate study.   

The other thing is to assure them that as long as they are committed to my project, I'm committed to supervising them through to their degrees.  All they have to do is focus on their research and ignore the politics.   

But the money is coming with me.  I get the feeling that the adminstration is mainly interested in that ,and not the students per se, and is just trying to use the students to make me feel obliged to leave the money. 

[jackit_n_tyy]

I know it's a hardship, but if you can personally spring for some of the travel funds, I am sure your students (who, after all, are going to help you tremendously) will greatly appreciate it.  Regardless, it sounds like you are going down the right road.

Good luck!

[shrek]

I get the feeling that the adminstration is mainly interested in that ,and not the students per se, and is just trying to use the students to make me feel obliged to leave the money. 

This is exactly what is going on and your students through no fault of yours are caught in the middle. I agree with the suggestions to meet with them regulalry. Probably more often now because they will be hearing so much disinformation. I had something similar (not moving but a faculty member giving my student disinformation) going on. I had to meet with the student regularly-- and they are SO NAIVE it turns out to counter the attacks. It finally came down to my telling my student that they had a choice of course. But, that they could not continue to receive funding on MY GRANT to work with this other faculty member-- which is what the other faculty member wanted (tho' they framed it as 'for your own sake' and 'for your best interests' to the student).

I would also be up front with the students-- that you had no hope of getting tenure and this was a way for you to continue to doing your work and continuing to work with them. And, I would assure them OVER AND OVER that the new place will be far superior to where they are now. They need to hear this again and again.

[larryc]

Congratulations on getting a ticket out of Crazy Town! The mid-career move is always tricky and you seem to have made it quite deftly.

I feel  pretty much besieged, although I think if I sit tight, do my job, keep in touch with my students, and stonewall the administration, I should be ok.

I think that is your best strategy. Be ready though for all kinds of potential bullsh*t. Make sure your data and computer files are backed up off campus. Important paper files as well. Be prepared for them to try and simply seize your research funds--and you may not be able to stop them. Have a frank conversation with your funding agency right now, perhaps they can delay the scheduled disbursement of funds, or begin to place funds with the new institution?

I really like the advice above about taking care of your grad students, and letting them know they do not have to--and should not--fight on your behalf.

Good luck, ans let us know how it goes.

[mleok]

I assume you've already looked into whether it's possible to move your funding with you to your new institution. Given the size of the grant, I imagine it's probably an EU-level grant, as opposed to something associated with a specific country's grant agency, otherwise moving it to a different country in Europe might be challenging.

[systeme_d_]

I just wanted to congratulate you, wish you luck, and chime in with those who strongly suggest that you get everything off of your office computer, and talk to your funding agency pronto.  I suggest Dropbox for the computer files, and your cell phone for the chats with your funding agency. 

[monsterx]

I assume you've already looked into whether it's possible to move your funding with you to your new institution. Given the size of the grant, I imagine it's probably an EU-level grant, as opposed to something associated with a specific country's grant agency, otherwise moving it to a different country in Europe might be challenging.

It's an EU grant, and moving it is possible - first thing I checked before signing a contract at my new place, both in principle and in regard to my specific situation. 

Delaying disbursement of funds is an excellent idea; the second tranch of funding is due to come in two months before I leave, so if it is possible to delay, or just send to my new employer, that would save me a lot of grief. 

I think I'll have to pretty much write off any money left at my current employer.  From other people's experience, they have very sticky fingers in the finance administration.

Congratulations on getting a ticket out of Crazy Town! The mid-career move is always tricky and you seem to have made it quite deftly.

Thanks! Although now that you've said I'm mid-career I feel old :)     

[southerntransplant]

One of my former colleagues took his students with him to a private university. One thing that wasn't accounted for in the student support was the increase in tuition at the new place. He made that part of his startup negotiation. It's just one of those things that tends to fall between the cracks.

Another departing colleague could not convince students to go, so I am co-chair of their committees and do all the paperwork stuff advisors are supposed to but do not advise them in any real sense. They still communicate with the former colleague.

Neither were able to take their money with them, since the funding agencies were not able to re-write the contracts in place. I ended up becoming the PI-in-name, administering the grant locally and making sure that the money got to the former colleagues as sub-contracts. This was not something required of me, but something I did as a favor.

Should you run into this situation as well, you might try and find a kind-hearted colleague to do this for you. They would have to be quite kind-hearted, as it is a giant pain.