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[entwife]

Does anyone have experience with dealing with contractors? I have a rather major home improvement project in mind (for which had had saved for years). I got the bids ranging from 25K to 45K. The high bid company has no BBB complaints, they sell themselves as "artists" rather than just builders, the sales guy kept going on and on about how bad everyone else in the business is, and how they bid low and then keep tacking stuff on. He also spent hours measuring and planning. The low bid guy was late for our meeting and spent about 5 minutes measuring. They have some resolved BBB complaints, but still A+ rating (??). The medium bid was done without actually looking at my place or measuring.

I definitely do not want problems or bad quality, but 20K difference???

My understanding of construction is... well, I can tell a difference between concrete and bricks, that's about it. So if they say that their concrete is better that the other guy's concrete, I have no idea what good concrete looks like. I keep contractors unsure of my gender and marital status for as long as possible, but when they see my place it is rather clear that I am a single female. Am I nuts to even attempt a project? Is there a way to get as honest work as possible (and yes, the business in general is rather slimy, an even worse in this state). I do not know anyone in the business or anyone who had done this type of project recently...

[ideagirl]

The BBB is useless. Join Angieslist and look for reviews of local contractors. Also, google like so:
Name of contractor review
Name of contractor complain
Name of contractor problem

What's the project, if I may ask? Here are some excellent fora to seek advice in:
If it's a kitchen remodel, http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/kitchbath/
If it's a bathroom remodel, http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/bath/
If it's some other kind of remodel, http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/remodel/

[entwife]

Thanks ideagirl,
I have tried googling reviews, but there are too many companies with similar names/different quality offices in different towns, and also stuff that was clearly written by the company itself :(. Thanks for the links to the other fora!
The project is a pool. I am sure many people will think this is nuts, pools are a bad value, etc, but  3 hours of swimming daily is my recipe for optimal functioning, and crowded public places make me cry. Pools get a lot of use here, and about 1/3 of houses on my street have in-ground ones.

[shrek]

Ask them each for a list of references, then CALL them. Call 3-4 references each. Ask if they did good work, if they stayed on time, if they stayed on budget, how they resolved problems (because they WILL occur). Ask if they would do work with them again. Ask the nature of the problems that did occur, ask about workmanship, and if they cleaned up after themselves. Ask if their subs are people who have been working with the contractor for a long time (this tells you A LOT). When we remodeled our house, we got 5 bids, called references, and in the end went with one of the bids in the middle where we both felt good about the contractor in terms of style/communication AND the references were good. The subs were all people who'd worked with the contractor for a long time (10+ years in some cases) and they LOVED this guy-- this tells me he was treating his subs right, and happy subs helps you.

We also had the "artiste" bid--- yeah right-- I mean it would have been great, but it was a huge huge difference, and the low bid just felt like too many corners would be cut.

[cranefly]

Talk to your neighbours about who did their pools. Walk around your neighbourhood area and see if anyone is currently getting a pool: ask them about their experience with their current contractors.

Seriously, I do everything by word of mouth on my street/area. I've gone up to people's houses when I saw contractor's vans in their driveways and asked them. Nobody ever thought it was strange, and a few said, "I wished I'd asked a few more people before hiring these guys" or that kind of thing.

Also, check what's included in the quotes. Are they including digging and hauling the dirt away? Are they including all the filtration systems, pumps, etc.?  As Shrek says, subs make a huge difference: if you hire a good contractor but they sub it out to losers, then you're still getting lousy work. Ask them who they use for subs and check on those.

Definitely don't hire anyone without checking references.

[entwife]

Thank you, these are all very helpful ideas. Unfortunately, there are no recent pool builds in my area - it is a 1950s neighborhood and most pools have been around for a while (and the only way to know which houses have pools is to look up on satellite maps.  It might still be worth it to try to talk to someone though.
I have checked some references for the higher bid company and they all seem happy, but I think I will get a couple more bids. I've also been reading up on pools so I can actually understand what all those pieces of equipment are all about and what am I comparing to what ... Dang, I really should have bought a house with a pool, but most pools in the area and ripe for a major remodel, so I'd be dealing with similar stuff anyway...

[history_grrrl]

Just seeing this thread is giving me flashbacks . . . I hope to never have to deal with contractors again. I hear you, OP, on not knowing what the hell they're talking about. Now I feel like I would know exactly what to ask for re: a kitchen renovation, or a rewiring job -- but of course I'll never have to go through that again, so . . .

Echoing what others have said, plus I'd recommend checking the forums on the "This Old House" website as well.

I'm also a single woman, and when I bought my house, I seriously considered asking my landlord (whose building I was moving out of) to come over and pretend to be my husband whenever contractors came over to do estimates. He's a funny guy: he told me I could expect to get the "university professor" markup, comparable to the "highly paid manufacturing-sector line worker" markup he usually got, which he estimated at 10%.

[daniel_von_flanagan]

Relevant movie recommendation: Don't Make Waves (1967). - DvF

[hegemony]

If there are no recent pool builds in your area, there must be recent pools somewhere within range, or the pool-builders wouldn't still be building pools.  You can presumably ask them for three names of people they've recently built pools for.  And the local Angie's List must have something about these companies.

[spork]

The sales tactics of the high bidder enable the company to gouge people like you. I've seen the same "we're the pros, everyone else is a hack" routine with floor refinishers, window installers, home inspectors, etc. Usually you can find equally good or better work for half the price.

I would never go with any contractor who doesn't even show up in person to meet a potential customer.

Beware of the lowest bidder, especially if he/she has a dirty, disorganized appearance. Same goes for the person's truck. These are the people who hire illegal day laborers, don't pay workers' comp, and don't have insurance.

Since you don't have neighbors with recently-built pools, try Angie's List as mentioned upthread. I wouldn't put  much stock in BBB for such an expensive job. Another source of information: pool maintenance companies. They are the ones who see the same pools year after year and they probably know which contractors are reliable.

Definitely call references.

[madhatter]

Add 20% cost and 50% time to any estimate you are given.

Don't be swayed by the spiel badmouthing everyone else's work -- I think they teach this technique in Secret Contractor School. Every person I've ever hired was a certified genius who was going to repair the damage done by the string of idiots who preceded him.

[entwife]

Add 20% cost and 50% time to any estimate you are given.

Don't be swayed by the spiel badmouthing everyone else's work -- I think they teach this technique in Secret Contractor School. Every person I've ever hired was a certified genius who was going to repair the damage done by the string of idiots who preceded him.

I am seriously tempted to use the "All Cretans are liars" next time I hear "pull industry is a dirty business" from a pool salesman.

I have tried the Angie's list, which has glowing reviews for the lowest bidder. Several reviews sound very similar... And one bad review for the high bidder from a long time ago.

The highest bidder does have a very good warranty.

Still waiting for a couple more bids. I wish I could just get a fiberglass pool where most of the price is factory-set, but it seem like this area is a gunite monopoly and the last fiberglass installer was driven out of business by oil/freight prices a couple of years ago... Of course, there's also this (fun starts halfway into the video)

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=aed_1307974913

Most of the recent pool builds are a couple of towns over where housing is newer ... and more people have money
Asking people who take care of pools is a good idea, I might do that.  

One of the references I called was off her rocker... Another one was clearly very rich and proud of it... Fun stuff...

[entwife]

Of course it should have been "POOL industry is a dirty business" from a pool salesman. Ykes.

[ucprof]

We just had our pool redone.  We got many bids and went and saw a bunch of work in progress by the contractors.  We were choosing between ripping out the old pool and starting from scratch or renovating the existing pool.  We went with the latter and so far we are happy with the decision.  Ours is fiberglass with reinforced concrete walls (about 50 yrs old) and we had the fiberglass guy reline and replumb the old pool.  There are not that many people out there doing fiberglass but there are some.  If the references are quirky then I suggest to ask to see their current work as it is being done.  Turns out the fiberglass guy we hired was great at fiberglass but maybe not perfect at the plumbing.  We had to watch the latter very closely and have them redo a few things, which they did.

[entwife]

Well, it's a good thing you understand plumbing then...I'd be ****d. Could you please PM me with specific company info? Thank you!