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[proftowanda]

OP and others seeking non-academic work:  I am a late-life Ph.D. who took the reverse path, after working in other fields for decades, finally leading me back to academe -- but first, to an administrative position.  (Then I rediscovered my early yen for teaching and realized that I had not gone into the field 'way back when because I had trained to teach the wrong age group, as was reinforced by student teaching in hormonal hell, middle school.)

Anyway:  As you aspired to academe, have you considered the administrative side?  Advanced degrees can be a plus -- you're much less likely to be greeted by laughter -- and the work was tremendously challenging and rewarding for me.  And there seems to be more hiring on the administrative side than the faculty side, sadly. . . .

[nezahualcoyotl]

It's clear to me now that I'm basically unemployable outside academia - I managed to get a grand total of one offer from the private sector but it has been rescinded (and there were lots of things going for me at that place that are unlikely to repeat any time soon). I'm waiting for the process to complete for an application for a faculty position I think I have a decent chance of getting, if that falls through I'll look for an ESL teaching job, which pay peanuts here but I think I could get fairly quickly, while I look for something (faculty position and postdoc seem to be the only other plausible choices). Which wouldn't be so terrible if it weren't for having lost interest in my field almost completely - but I just don't see any realistic alternatives. If I were from a  developed country I'd learn a trade or look for a private R&D job.

Anyway:  As you aspired to academe, have you considered the administrative side?  Advanced degrees can be a plus -- you're much less likely to be greeted by laughter -- and the work was tremendously challenging and rewarding for me.  And there seems to be more hiring on the administrative side than the faculty side, sadly. . . .

Unfortunately any advice is probably inapplicable to my situation as I'm not American, but how do you apply for these jobs (networking, they're advertised...?) and what do you need to get hired (what sort of experience?)?

[itried]

There is definitely more hiring on the administrative side than the faculty side, that's for certain. For me, going to the administrative side might be the final straw that makes me leave academia. I experience it as so, so much piddly policy and procedure and bureaucratic work. It may be stimulating to other people, but I'm finding it maddeningly dull, and I resent how it takes my focus off my students -- and how it makes me a b!tch to be around to boot.

[yumyumdonuts]

I'm not opposed to the administrative side, although I don't know what positions I would apply to and have a fair shot at getting. Obviously higher level posts (i.e., chair, dean) are out, and it's hard to come up with names for other administrative positions that I can use in job search engines.

I've applied to several academic advisor positions and have been turned down for all of them.

I still have a year and a half to search for something, but I'm losing my initial enthusiasm with growing numbers of reject emails.

Any strategies for maintaining optimism? I recently went on a group interview with 6 other candidates, all of whom were undergrads at the local R1. It sucked.

[farm_boy]

optimism is so last century

[zharkov]

I'm not opposed to the administrative side, although I don't know what positions I would apply to and have a fair shot at getting. Obviously higher level posts (i.e., chair, dean) are out, and it's hard to come up with names for other administrative positions that I can use in job search engines.

Browse the job ads at The Chronice, higher ed jobs, and such, to get a sense of the sort of non-faculty openings universities have.  You can't really go much by job titles for many admin positions, but need to read the ad and the required qualifications.

[yumyumdonuts]

No activity on this thread, so I thought I'd bump it up with an update.

I've continued to apply to jobs and continue to be notified (usually automated) that I am not qualified. Despite the rejections, I am more settled with my decision to not apply for another teaching post.

Questions:
1. I've tried to apply for internships to get necessary corporate experience in market research. However it seems legally (or so HR individuals tell me), they are only allowed to take on current students, either undergrads or MBAs. Has anyone gotten around this issue?

2. Do you have tips on how to make USAJobs.com applications more appealing? I've applied to Grade 5, 7, and 9 positions with no luck, even though it seems PhDs theoretically could land a Grade 11 position without prior government experience. These have generally been research/statistics based positions.

[archaeo42]

With USAJobs.gov applications, it's important to try and incorporate keywords from the ad into your experience and any cover letter you may potentially upload.  With a PhD, you should be aiming for GS-9 or 11 positions.  You can be tossed out of the applicant pool for being overqualified, which a PhD definitely is for a GS-5 or 7. 

Try to also think about skill sets more generally.  If you've taught, you're able to synthesize numerous sources of information and distill complex ideas in ways which can be understood by non-specialists.  The same is true with research.  Any language skills would also be a boon to international work.  Supervising students on complex tasks translates into management skills as does the implementation of major grants.

Also, go and join versatilephd.com.  It's the most useful and concrete advice I've gotten on the possibilities for leaving academe and how to successfully transition.

[yumyumdonuts]

Thanks for the USAJobs tips, archaeo42.

I officially got the boot today. I thought I was over it, but now with having received the official letter I am feeling pretty sad about the choices I've made in my career that led me here. I've been taking my husband's philosophy in life to heart since hearing of my department's lack of support for renewal (can't change the past, yada yada), but still I'm sad this afternoon.

[dr_prephd]

but still I'm sad this afternoon.

Wow. Understandable. Sorry to hear that.

[zharkov]

Sorry, too, Yum.

About internships, they are often not paid, thus employers can only "hire" you if you are in a formal degree program.  Or you might be able to do an internship as a volunteer at a non-profit or government agency.  (Some government agencies have volunteers do this and that, like the Fish and Wildlife and National Park Service.)

If you have not bought What Color is Your Parachute, and worked through the exercises, you may want to do that now.  (With the emphasis on working through the exercises.)

I'd suggest developing plans in parallel, government, private industry, and academia.  Just because you weren't renewed at your school does not mean you would not work out fine at another school. In any organization setting, sometimes you click, sometimes you don't, and you need to move on when you don't. 

[nana9]

Condolences, Yum. 

I want to echo archaeo42 on USAJobs.  I would be shameless about using the exact language of keywords/skills of the job announcement in your application and be concrete about the number of years/percentage of your time for which you have done those things.  FWIW, I'm starting a government job in the summer after 3 years in a TT and am being hired at GS-12.  I know people in similar situations to mine (Ph.D., 3-4 years in a TT position) who have interviewed for GS-13 positions, although that seems like pushing it a bit to me. 

And, yes, join versatilephd.com.  It's a great community. 

[frog111]

Ditto on the USAJobs advice.  they use an automated screening process based on keywords.  If the keywords do not exist in the application, you will not advance to the next step.  Also, keep in mind that networking also applies to landing government jobs.  If you can identify where the job is, and potential colleagues, do an informational interview.  Hopefully when your name comes up as a potential candidate, you will have some name recognition.

Rgearding the GS scale for PhD's, around my facility, we have hired PhD's anywhere from a GS7 to a GS 13.  I started as a GS 12 and now am a GS15.  It simply depends on the culture at the government lab or facility.  In the research groups, the PhD's get hired as GS11-13's, while in the engineering and development groups, they come in lower. 

[yumyumdonuts]

Is it just me or have new job ads just about disappeared? I applied to tons of positions during the winter when I was informed about probable non-reappointment and now that I know for sure that my terminal year is 2012-13, I can't seem to find any appropriate positions. I suppose I may be getting more specific in applying for jobs that relate to what I have done in the past, but it sure does wear one down.

Anyone else in the same boat?

[dr_know]

Finally got a non-academic job.  It's not what I expected or even really wanted, but it's turning out to be not so bad (other than the pay--that sucks).  I'm hoping I can use this to prove that I do have non-academic skills and experience so I can eventually move into something better.  I do miss some aspects of academia, but it's nice to not bring work home.