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[miss_jane_marple]

My mother behaved this way, including displaying the need for others (especially me) to affirm not only her feelings but her perceptions--even when I didn't share them.  If I didn't, she often went into a rage.  But it's important to note that she had Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

Exactly. I'm sorry to learn that you had to become adept at dealing with this kind of behavior, particularly at a young age and in someone who, I think it's safe to generalize, could reasonably have been expected to be taking care of you, not the other way around.

As for distancing myself, well, I've tried.  It's difficult, as we're a small department, and her subfield is the closest in my department to my own.  I need her to work with me professionally.

Yes, that is what makes it such a challenge. There's a difference I did not convey very well between "yourself" and "your self". If someone says, "Sit yourself down," or "Get yourself over to the dean's office," they mean physically move your entire being. When I wrote "remove your self" I was trying to get at the idea of changing the tone and depth of your interactions. That is, put some layers of civility and professionalism between your inner self and the problem person. Part of that is letting go of the idea that this person is interested in how you feel or what you think. The goal ceases to be intimate sharing, and becomes maintaining the peace while not letting the person harm you.

I'll bet infopri could tell you a very great deal about how to accomplish this.

[infopri]

That is, put some layers of civility and professionalism between your inner self and the problem person. Part of that is letting go of the idea that this person is interested in how you feel or what you think. The goal ceases to be intimate sharing, and becomes maintaining the peace while not letting the person harm you.

I'll bet infopri could tell you a very great deal about how to accomplish this.

Indeed.  The boldfaced sentences especially struck a chord for me.

[llanfair]

MD, I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the idea that someone actually said, "I don't want to have a meta-conversation with you."  Who says that?!

Someone with Asperger's? It's the bit about the perfect memory and allusions to other eccentricities and brilliance that make me wonder.

Not very helpful, really, since you still have to deal with her, whether you can put a name to her behaviour or not.

That was my thought, too.

[punchnpie]

Part of that is letting go of the idea that this person is interested in how you feel or what you think. The goal ceases to be intimate sharing, and becomes maintaining the peace while not letting the person harm you.

Yup. Y'all ain't gonna be friends.  I thought about Aspergers as well.

So here's a question - since Mended Drum says this person has offended others in the department, should she, or a group from the department, say something (as nicely as possible) to the person about how she comes off? If you don't want to do an all out intervention, Mended Drum, do you feel comfortable telling her directly something along the lines of, "Please don't talk to me like that."  I'm sure you don't want to cause a major rift with someone you need to work with, but even if this person as Aspergers, she needs to treat people civilly.

[msparticularity]

I honestly think that part of her frustration is that she needs me to affirm, not just her feelings, but her perceptions, especially about our department.  But I don't share them.  In fact, sometimes I don't recognize the people she's describing at all.  But I definitely can't say that.

This is the point that was quite striking to me--and I think it hints at some risk to you if you seem to agree with this woman. You've mentioned elsewhere that she's offended most of the members of your department, MD, and that her students often come out of meetings with her crying. I would like to suggest that you NOT give her--or your colleagues and students--the impression that you agree with her on the perceptions that you see as skewed, despite the fact that she seems to be attempting to force you to do so. Sure, it might make your life temporarily more peaceful to appear to go along with her, but do you really want for her to begin to regard you as her ally, and to refer to you as such in conversations with others, and/or to actually try to drag you into disputes? I know it may be difficult, but I suspect that you may need to say something like, "I understand that you see things in that way, and I respect your perspective, but I just don't agree."

I would also like to point out that, while individuals with Asperger's certainly struggle with social signals, and can certainly perseverate on topics and have uncannily precise memory, this woman's behavior is most certainly not characteristic. A person with Asperger's might well completely disregard what you are saying and just continue to talk about what they wanted to talk about, but they wouldn't engage in this kind of overt attempt to manipulate discussion--especially given the associated interpersonal aggression you are seeing.

[obprof]

I agree with the other posters who suggest adding some social distance between the two of you. From what you describe, these "conversations" are draining, and your energy is best saved for your students, your research, your family, etc.

No matter the underlying reasons why she might behave this way (e.g., personality disorder, personality, who knows), she has pretty much told you that she would like you to be her audience (and an admiring one at that).

So, become a less engaging audience. You can be polite, but start ending those "conversations" a lot sooner. Disagree mildly with her (e.g., "Hmm. I don't really see it that way", or "No, I've never noticed that") but in a detached way. Have things that you need to do, elsewhere. Be too busy right now for coffee (but maybe some other time).

When a family member is like that, there are a lot of reasons why someone tries to maintain the relationship. But she is just an aggravating coworker. And you have better things to do.

[infopri]

I would also like to point out that, while individuals with Asperger's certainly struggle with social signals, and can certainly perseverate on topics and have uncannily precise memory, this woman's behavior is most certainly not characteristic. A person with Asperger's might well completely disregard what you are saying and just continue to talk about what they wanted to talk about, but they wouldn't engage in this kind of overt attempt to manipulate discussion--especially given the associated interpersonal aggression you are seeing.

I had the same reaction.  I don't know why your colleague, in particular, behaves this way, but your description sounds more like NPD that Asperger's, although, of course, it may be neither.  She may just be a control freak, for example.

Msparticularity raises a good point, too.  I got caught between two factions this way, once upon a time.  I didn't really agree with either one (they were both  behaving badly), but one side kept confiding in me, which made the other side regard me as partisan.  Lesson learned.

[polly_mer]

So here's a question - since Mended Drum says this person has offended others in the department, should she, or a group from the department, say something (as nicely as possible) to the person about how she comes off?

I think this is a terrible idea.  No nice way exists to say, "So, we all think you are too <something> to be able to have a conversation".  I think this is a case for STFU as much as possible. 

[miss_jane_marple]

I think this is a terrible idea.  No nice way exists to say, "So, we all think you are too <something> to be able to have a conversation".  

Agreed. Not only is there no nice way to say it, the person being approached is likely to see a conspiracy, and react accordingly. It's difficult to predict what the fallout  might be, but it would be major and bad. On top of that, it just isn't mended_drum's job (or role, or responsibility) to try to protect this person from herself, or protect students, either, as tempting as that seems as an idea.

As they say in life-saving class, "Save yourself first!"

[infopri]

So here's a question - since Mended Drum says this person has offended others in the department, should she, or a group from the department, say something (as nicely as possible) to the person about how she comes off?

I think this is a terrible idea.  No nice way exists to say, "So, we all think you are too <something> to be able to have a conversation".  

Agreed. Not only is there no nice way to say it, the person being approached is likely to see a conspiracy, and react accordingly. It's difficult to predict what the fallout  might be, but it would be major and bad. On top of that, it just isn't mended_drum's job (or role, or responsibility) to try to protect this person from herself, or protect students, either, as tempting as that seems as an idea.

I couldn't agree more.  I think confronting this colleague on her conversational style--whether done by an individual or a group--will end badly.  Very badly.  Ask me how I know. 

[oldfullprof]

My stepfather, a litigator, used to talk to us like that. He was going to control the conversation, even at home. If he thought you didn't have anything pertinent to add to the conversation, he wasn't interested in listening to you.

I think that that may be a New England thing.  What's your point?  (Hint: there isn't one.) 

It's disquieting to this Californian who likes to "hang out" and see what come up.

[punchnpie]

As they say in life-saving class, "Save yourself first!"

OK, no group intervention, that's fine by me, but how do you save yourself without standing up for yourself? You can't run the other way every time you see this person coming. At some point, when she starts going off the deep end, don't you have the right to tell the offender to stop talking to you like that? Isn't it adult to ask for what you want?

[msparticularity]

As they say in life-saving class, "Save yourself first!"

OK, no group intervention, that's fine by me, but how do you save yourself without standing up for yourself? You can't run the other way every time you see this person coming. At some point, when she starts going off the deep end, don't you have the right to tell the offender to stop talking to you like that? Isn't it adult to ask for what you want?

I think this is probably the moment for the comments that express sympathy and respect, but explain that one sees things differently. Given that MD's colleagues are already distanced from this person, too, MD does not need to fear that they will be unhappy with her if she keeps her distance also. It's only the crazy controlling colleague who will be tweaked, and I kind of think MD may need to give up on feeling responsible for her.

[polly_mer]

As they say in life-saving class, "Save yourself first!"

OK, no group intervention, that's fine by me, but how do you save yourself without standing up for yourself? You can't run the other way every time you see this person coming. At some point, when she starts going off the deep end, don't you have the right to tell the offender to stop talking to you like that? Isn't it adult to ask for what you want?

Yes, you say, "If you aren't interested in letting me have approximately half the conversation, then this conversation is over", and repeat as necessary to respond as an adult.

The difference is the difference between "you ALWAYS do this" (even if it's true, that's not the way to get someone to knock it off) and "I'm done with this particular conversation" (one can hope for extinction of the behavior with repetition). 

[oldadjunct]

I honestly think that part of her frustration is that she needs me to affirm, not just her feelings, but her perceptions, especially about our department.  But I don't share them.  In fact, sometimes I don't recognize the people she's describing at all.  But I definitely can't say that.

As for distancing myself, well, I've tried.  It's difficult, as we're a small department, and her subfield is the closest in my department to my own.  I need her to work with me professionally.

You don't have to distance yourself, just tell her point blank, "I am sorry you feel that way about X; I don't. Did you see that article about...., what do you think about it?"  Nothing meta about that.

I am a big proponent, and very good at, changing the subject.  The more inappropriate/ridiculous the conversation, the more non-sequitur I can be. I am perfectly capable of dropping down to a vague reminiscence of taking my son to Teenage Mutant Turtles, which I have done (the movie and the conversational gambit).

And no, it is not a New England thing, dumb and inappropriate people live everywhere.