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[lucero]

Biomancer, it's the end of the semester, and I know people are stressed out, we all are. All I did was offer a suggestion/recommendation to the OP about a homeopathic remedy that I myself (and I use my voice professionally in addition to teaching so I know lots of ENTS and other voice professionals) and many colleagues have used with success. It was not meant to be doctor's advice nor scientific "truth."

Secondly, I never claimed to be a CURRENT student of science. I was a student of science in high school and college, which was over 20 years ago for me. The only reason why I even mentioned it was in retort to the other poster who was being condescending to me due to a perceived utter lack of knowledge about science/medicine. I do not claim to be an expert but did not deserve IMO to be talked down to and dragged around the floor for offering a remedy.

Chicken soup has no double bind study to my knowledge but do people get asked to show it when they recommend chicken soup?

Anyway, I have no double bind study to offer and for my purposes I don't  need it. I used arum tryphillium the first time because friends and colleagues of mine had used it and regained their voices. It worked for them. It worked for me as well and so when I have laryngitis (about 3 times in the last 3 years or so) I have used it and it works. That's all.

[biomancer]

Here are a couple studies on the efficacy of chicken soup:

http://chestjournal.chestpubs.org/content/74/4/408.short

http://chestjournal.chestpubs.org/content/118/4/1150.short

I'm working from home, without the linkup to our Uni library subscriptions.  I know there are a bunch more out there.


Lucero, there's an essential point you're missing here:  the plural of anecodote is not data.*  Without having a validated basis for comparison of duration of infection, or duration and/or severity of symptoms, "I took it and I felt better" does NOT mean that the remedy worked.  It's entirely possible that it had absolutely no effect and you were on the mend already - or that you might have gotten better faster without it.  It's also entirely possible that it works - but either way, my point here is that a scientific study would show if it had any effect.  I searched PubMed, Google Scholar, and quite a few other sources and could not find any sort of scholarly articles about any medicinal uses of Arum triphyllum other than toxicity studies and general botanical studies.  The mere fact that there are studies out there showing its toxicity, but not studies showing its efficacy as a remedy, suggests that it's probably not the best course of action.


*Plagiarized from a wise forumite - possibly Polly?

[alto_stratus]

Getting back to the neti pot, be sure to use distilled, sterile, or previously boiled water:

"Louisiana health officials are warning residents not to use nonsterilized tap water in neti pots after the deaths of two people who exposed their brains to a deadly amoeba while flushing out their nasal passages.

. . .

'Tap water is safe for drinking, but not for irrigating your nose,' said Dr. Raoult Ratard, Louisiana state epidemiologist in a statement. Ratard urged neti-pot users to fill the pots only with distilled, sterile, or previously boiled water, and to rinse and dry them after each use."

[mouseman]

Getting back to the neti pot, be sure to use distilled, sterile, or previously boiled water:

"Louisiana health officials are warning residents not to use nonsterilized tap water in neti pots after the deaths of two people who exposed their brains to a deadly amoeba while flushing out their nasal passages.

. . .

'Tap water is safe for drinking, but not for irrigating your nose,' said Dr. Raoult Ratard, Louisiana state epidemiologist in a statement. Ratard urged neti-pot users to fill the pots only with distilled, sterile, or previously boiled water, and to rinse and dry them after each use."

Biomancer, or any other microbiologist out there:  how is a Brita water filter at filtering out the fauna and flora of our tap water?

[biomancer]

Getting back to the neti pot, be sure to use distilled, sterile, or previously boiled water:

"Louisiana health officials are warning residents not to use nonsterilized tap water in neti pots after the deaths of two people who exposed their brains to a deadly amoeba while flushing out their nasal passages.

. . .

'Tap water is safe for drinking, but not for irrigating your nose,' said Dr. Raoult Ratard, Louisiana state epidemiologist in a statement. Ratard urged neti-pot users to fill the pots only with distilled, sterile, or previously boiled water, and to rinse and dry them after each use."

Biomancer, or any other microbiologist out there:  how is a Brita water filter at filtering out the fauna and flora of our tap water?

Brita filters aren't designed to remove microorganisms.  They're designed to remove chemicals - including the bit of persisting chlorine that's in the water to kill microorganisms.  I drink water from a Brita filter, because my tap water tastes horrible if I don't filter it, but I boil the water before I use it in my Neti pot.

Now, that said, the organism that's causing those nasty infections, Naegleria, is an obligate warm-water inhabitant, and it does not survive in places that have what I will loosely call "a real winter" - meaning that if the surface waters freeze in the winter where you are, Naegleria is not something you need to worry about.  (Which is to say, Mouseman, where you live and where I live, we'll need a heck of a lot of global warming before we have Naegleria in our local water supplies.)

However, there are some other microorganisms that survive chlorine treatment (I'm thinking of Cryptosporidium in particular, but there are others), but they don't survive boiling.  So, if you're using a Neti pot (and, for the record, I do use one*), you should boil the water and let it cool before you use it, and keep your Neti pot scrupulously clean (mine goes in the dishwasher with a sanitizing cycle).


*I did the lit-search before I started using my neti pot a few years ago.  There are dozens of biomedical articles on the efficacy of nasal irrigation, but it's impossible to do the classic double-blind study when you have half the patients getting their nose squirted out and half not getting their nose squirted out, because everyone knows what treatment they're getting.  Since salt is perceptible by taste and by receptors inside the nasopharynx, it's not even really possible to do a true double-blind to determine the best salt solution unless the differences in concentration are really subtle.  However, there is still plenty of clinical scientific evidence supporting nasal irrigation as a safe and effective decongestant.  The studies suggest that using water that is slightly saltier than isotonic saline (which is 0.9% NaCl) works best, as it seems to cause the mucus membranes to produce a thinner mucus that moves out of the sinus and nasal passages.  A good approximation of such a hypertonic saline recommended by the literature is about half a teaspoon of salt per cup of water.

[alto_stratus]

Thanks for sharing the additional info, Biomancer.

[treehugger1]

(3)  Quite a few decent scientific studies have shown garlic to have both antibacterial and antiviral effects, so a little extra garlic in the soup may help to kick the infection.  When I'm starting to come down with something I typically eat garlic bread that's almost equal parts garlic and bread, and I'm often back to normal the next morning.  It's probably too late for that for you, though, Treehugger.

It was too late last time. But, I started feeling a cold coming on just this morning, remembered your advice and packed in the garlic before the cold/flu train left the station. Seriously. I've just consumed about 25+ minced raw garlic cloves spread over 7 slices of ciabatta. I feel better (if distinctly more odiferous) already!

[alto_stratus]

I hope it works!  But either way, tomorrow, only breathe near people you don't like.  And for them, give them a big, "Heeeellllooooooo!"

[treehugger1]

Oh man, did it work!

I'm so thrilled I'm devoting a thread to the "stinking rose" in the Meet N' Greet section. Check it out.

[anonmust]

I want to thank Lucero for the suggestion of the homeopathic remedy which I will try. I am pretty upset. I have had laryngitis for 3 days --unusual for me and I am a singer, an author, and a speaker. My voice is my livelihood. I tried to sing yesterday--and it was  disastrous. In five days--I have to be ready,again. I did an internet search for speedy remedies and this forum came up. Might I also add that I found as an outsider, moueseman's and biodancer's responses to Lucero to be rude, boorish,pompous and unhelpful.

--@biodancer-double blind studies?  Seriously?   "felt better doesn't mean it worked?"  But your garlic-bread-eating theory is perhaps, more relevant?  A alternative suggestion meant for the OP was taken out of context, triggered some juvenile overreaction, look at the lengths taken to attempt disprove a simple suggestion,and it became with an agenda for these men to display really rude behavior and ignorance.

@ mousesman you took such issue--and made such a pompous statement about being the watch dog...why not alert biodancer that recommending people consume loaves of bread laced with garlic as an antidote to colds or to fight mucous--is downright silly.

Bread, particularly white bread, white flour,is prone to causing mucous. There's no nutritive substance to it whatsoever. It's unhealthy and is essentially junk food. Telling someone to eat garlic bread to combat  colds is analogous to recommending  spinach or wheat-grass smoothies with haagen daz chocolate ice cream and Cool Whip for the chlorophyll content.

Otherwise from everyone else--lot of good info


 

Biomancer, it's the end of the semester, and I know people are stressed out, we all are. All I did was offer a suggestion/recommendation to the OP about a homeopathic remedy that I myself (and I use my voice professionally in addition to teaching so I know lots of ENTS and other voice professionals) and many colleagues have used with success. It was not meant to be doctor's advice nor scientific "truth."

Secondly, I never claimed to be a CURRENT student of science. I was a student of science in high school and college, which was over 20 years ago for me. The only reason why I even mentioned it was in retort to the other poster who was being condescending to me due to a perceived utter lack of knowledge about science/medicine. I do not claim to be an expert but did not deserve IMO to be talked down to and dragged around the floor for offering a remedy.

Chicken soup has no double bind study to my knowledge but do people get asked to show it when they recommend chicken soup?

Anyway, I have no double bind study to offer and for my purposes I don't  need it. I used arum tryphillium the first time because friends and colleagues of mine had used it and regained their voices. It worked for them. It worked for me as well and so when I have laryngitis (about 3 times in the last 3 years or so) I have used it and it works. That's all.

[biomancer]

Anonmust, I'm going to be civil for a moment here and post under the assumption that you're not a troll.  If you'd spent any time at all reading this forum, you'd know that ignorance gets you nowhere here.   Mouseman and I are both scientists (as are many other regular Forumites) - I'm in the biomedical field, and I know what I'm talking about as this relates to my areas of research and teaching expertise. 

As for the perception of rudeness and boorishness, if you consider a factual correction of fallacies to be rude, then frankly, you're not likely to last long on this Forum.  I haven't slung a single insult, used foul language, or made any personal attacks, nor has Mouseman. 

Like most of the regulars on the Forum, and most people I know outside the Forum, I prefer my remedies to have some real science behind them showing that the remedies are safe and effective.  Many well-designed scientific studies have shown that garlic is effective against bacteria and viruses in vitro (in the lab, not necessarily in human patients).  There are fewer studies in vivo (i.e. in humans) because it's quite difficult to control for placebo effect with an ingredient as pungent as garlic. 

Double-blind studies are the gold standard for determining whether a treatment is actually an effective remedy for a human to take or merely causing a placebo effect - bacteria and viruses aren't prone to the placebo effect, but people are.  The measure of "feeling better" - which is indeed quantifiable in several ways - does not always mean that the remedy had the specified effect (such as actually reducing inflammation or killing off pathogenic bacteria).   There are many (hundreds) of studies showing that psychological factors have an enormous effect, and that the mere suggestion that taking something could make someone feel better will often have that effect even if the something is a sugar pill.   *That* is why the double-blind study is so important.  It's the way to sort out whether the patient's perception of improvement is actually due to the remedy or due to the placebo effect (and it will also tell if the remedy does nothing, or actually makes the patient feel worse), and whether there is a difference in improvement between patients who received the treatment and those who did not. 

I'm not suggesting that double-blinds are the only studies worth accepting - papers demonstrating effectiveness of a treatment in animals, or against bacteria growing in culture are certainly valid science as well - but the design of the experiment must have some way to account for the placebo effect if the conclusion being drawn is that the remedy is effective in people, because human perception of well-being is heavily affected by psychology.  A study that uses a quantification of "feeling better" as its dependent variable but does not have a way to control for the placebo effect does not fully investigate the effectiveness of the remedy.  A collection of anecdotes from people who used a treatment and eventually improved, without a comparison group and without some way to control for placebo effects, is not a valid scientific study.



As for the garlic bread - I prefer whole grain breads, and the bread merely serves as a platform for the garlic, especially for people who are not used to eating large quantities of garlic.  If you prefer to eschew the bread and just spoon on the garlic, that's a perfectly good option.  For people who are not sensitive to wheat proteins, the scientific literature suggests little if any correlation between consumption of wheat products and mucus production.  People sensitive to wheat proteins, of course, will have unpleasant effects if they consume wheat products.  (As a side note, I think Cool Whip is nasty, and prefer my spinach fresh from my garden, with a balsamic vinaigrette.)



Now, with all of that said, Anonmust, I do hope that your voice returns so that you are ready for your performance in 5 days.