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[mooged]

Hey guys, I'm PhDer who would love some feedback on my teaching struggles this semester.

I have the worst students that I have ever had. They're not dumb, but they are so disrespectful, rude, and just plain mean that I dread going to class.

I love to teach, and I'm generally enthusiastic and encouraging and take pride in my level of devotion to my students. But these students make me so angry that I could care less about helping them learn. My lesson plans are suffering, and I know I've messed up many times in class when I've been flustered and that makes me angry too. I just want the semester to end so I don't have to see then 3x a week anymore (thank god it almost is).

I suppose my point is, how do you all handle bad students? I'm so used to being respected (even the little bit of respect that GTAs get) that I was unsure how to handle consistant challenges to my authority as the classroom leader. Bad students in the past have just stopped coming to class, but this semester they have always been there. They even come early! I just ignored them for the most part but they seem to thrive on it. They're dying for my attention and when I don't call on them they groan and moan loudly. Ugh.

Any advice? I'd love to make this a learning experience rather than a "lost" semester.

[lasquires]

I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. Some specifics about the situation might help. What kind of class is this and what, specifically, is your role as TA? How are the students conveying their disrespect?

[username2]

I'm sure a course of pop quizzes will help to remedy the situation.

[curmudgeonintraining]

In all honesty, it's way too late to do anything about it at this point in the semester if the class atmosphere has been like this all along. But for future semester, I find it helpful to be very, very strict at the beginning of the semester (especially the first 1-2 classes), even if that's not how you would normally teach. It is much, much easier to start out tough then ease up later on than the opposite. Call out disrespectful behavior publicly during class to make students responsible for their behaviors. If students are chatting or texting, tell them you have marked them absent for that day and their grade will be affected appropriately. If they are disrespectful/unprofessional while asking questions (even in e-mail), tell them you will not respond until the question is phrased professionally, and then tell them how they should do it.

But most importantly, don't come off as angry and definitely don't take it personally, because that will work against you. If you are emotional, students will respond in kind. You need to set a professional tone and accept only professional behavior and students will respond.

[mooged]

I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. Some specifics about the situation might help. What kind of class is this and what, specifically, is your role as TA? How are the students conveying their disrespect?

In my dept, TAs are basically instructors. We lead one or two courses per semester, generally an introductory course (ie. 101, 102, 201, 202). I'm currently teaching the equivalent of a 202 course.

The biggest deal was when one student threw something at me. (It did not hit me, and I just ignored it) They refuse to respond to me if its not "class time," they bad-mouth colleagues to my face, they continually chat in class even when I have asked them over and over to stop...  Others just sit and glare at me or snicker with each other throughout the lesson.

Anyway, like I mentioned before, the semester is almost over. I don't want to deal with them anymore than I have to, so I'm just hoping to look for some pointers. I've been told that I'm too nice to students before, but I don't want to become a complete hard-ass.

[mooged]

Call out disrespectful behavior publicly during class to make students responsible for their behaviors. If students are chatting or texting, tell them you have marked them absent for that day and their grade will be affected appropriately. If they are disrespectful/unprofessional while asking questions (even in e-mail), tell them you will not respond until the question is phrased professionally, and then tell them how they should do it.

This is a great idea. Thank you so much! I definitely wish I had started out stricter earlier.

[larryc]

They disrespect you because you are a wimp. Sorry but there it is. You need to learn how to keep classroom discipline. A student who threw something at me would be escorted out by the campus police.

 This is something you can learn how to do. We all learned the hard way. You will enjoy teaching so much more when you learn to control your classroom.

[offthemarket]

You already have lost this class. Frankly, you can't salvage it at this point. You have lost the respect of the students and you're not going to get it back. For the purpose of getting through the semester, focus on a salvage operation rather than getting back to normal.

For next semester, find a mentor who can teach you about classroom management. You've got to be the person in authority in the classroom. If you tolerate a bit of overt disrespectful behavior, then you're welcome more and more of it.

[curmudgeonintraining]

The biggest deal was when one student threw something at me. (It did not hit me, and I just ignored it) They refuse to respond to me if its not "class time," they bad-mouth colleagues to my face, they continually chat in class even when I have asked them over and over to stop...  Others just sit and glare at me or snicker with each other throughout the lesson.

Anyway, like I mentioned before, the semester is almost over. I don't want to deal with them anymore than I have to, so I'm just hoping to look for some pointers. I've been told that I'm too nice to students before, but I don't want to become a complete hard-ass.

Wow, if a student threw something at me, I would kick the student out of that class and look into removing the student permanently. Could you imagine any supervisor at any job putting up with that behavior from a subordinate? Same thing with chatting in class. Don't "ask" them to stop, tell them. And if that doesn't work, tell them in class, in front of everyone, that they are marked absent that day. If you have an attendance policy that severely marks down for absences, students will quickly learn that disrespectful behavior will lead them to fail.

You can be a hard-ass and still be nice to students. I do have the reputation among colleagues for being a hard-ass, but honestly, once the first several weeks are over and students know that I don't put up with immaturity and expect them to be responsible for the course materials, we actually have fun. I joke around with students, they joke back, the atmosphere is informal within the ground rules I've set. But especially in the beginning, you have to be direct with problem students and follow through with your policies without exception.

If it makes you feel any better, my first semester teaching was a disaster. I was naturally shy, only 2-4 years older than my students, and still not confident with the material. That semester was a wake-up call. That next semester I pretended I was authoritative and students never noticed I was just faking it. And then it stuck, and it was part of who I was as an educator (even helped me be more confident in other parts of graduate school!). The same goes with students--even if they are just pretending to be professionals during your class because of severe penalties, after a while they might just forget they're pretending and turn into decent human beings.

[corcorancadet]

Write this semester off.

These are hard situations for anyone who is a "student" themselves.  I am not familiar with this outlandish type of behavior at the university level, but I am familiar with it at the secondary level.  You must ask yourself a few things first:
1) Do you have the support of admin in docking grades for behavior?
2) Do you have the support of admin in calling police if necessary?
3) Do you have support of the admin in setting classroom policies?
If you answer "yes" to all three, then you should easily be able to control your classroom.  If not, there is a larger systemic problem at play.  Because students don't view you as a "real" teacher--let's go ahead and admit that they don't--you need solid backing from the actual administration.

Assuming you have support from your department, realize that you must be firm with these students at the beginning of the year.  Many graduate students believe that all students are like them (good students), but this is not the case. I have a colleague that does not allow the use of cell phones or computers in his classroom. His policy is that he will warn a student and further infraction results in lowering of the FINAL grade. It only takes one incident to produce the desired result.  Yes, it may make some students grumpy, but the good students aren't really going to care either way. This colleague has good relationships with many students.  Being firm on rules during class time does not make you into a hard-ass.

My point: decide what you want your classroom to look like. From day one, make it look this way.  Student continues to talk, ask them to leave.  They don't leave, call the police.  Your job is to teach and this is in many ways completely unrelated to how well you get along with students outside of class hours.

[dr_alcott]

This thread should be moved to the Classroom board. . .

The biggest deal was when one student threw something at me. (It did not hit me, and I just ignored it)

You should not have just ignored this. Throwing something at the professor is absolutely unacceptable, and you should have dealt with it instantly. Failing to do so tells the students that you will tolerate their crap. If something like that happens again, stop the class and tell the student to leave. If the student refuses, tell him or her that you're calling security. Then do it, and have the student removed.

(On preview, what Curmudgeonintraining said. And I like what Corcorancadet says too.)

They refuse to respond to me if its not "class time," they bad-mouth colleagues to my face, they continually chat in class even when I have asked them over and over to stop...  Others just sit and glare at me or snicker with each other throughout the lesson.

Don't ask students to stop; tell them to. Tell them immediately that you can't teach, and other students can't learn, when they are chatting. Tell them that if they can't be quiet, they will have to leave. If you have to tell them to leave, then do it.

Another idea is to say something like "Since you have a lot to say about this, let's stop what we're doing so you can write a paragraph on topic X. This will be worth Y% of your grade." Do this every time they chat. They'll catch on.

[curmudgeonintraining]

Another idea is to say something like "Since you have a lot to say about this, let's stop what we're doing so you can write a paragraph on topic X. This will be worth Y% of your grade." Do this every time they chat. They'll catch on.

I second this. Even if it's not graded, quick class writing assignments focuses students. You can call on students, who can even just read what they wrote down. No one gets to pass on answering. For days when either I'm off my game or students just aren't getting it (for whatever reason), I have assigned extra, graded work on the spot. In years past, I've built the grade for these extra assignments right into my syllabus (something like "15% of your grade will be based on additional homework assignments that will be assigned throughout the semester as needed). I haven't ever used it punitively, but more to reinforce lessons that just aren't clicking. But dr_alcott's suggestion to do it when students are chatting sounds like a good one.

[lasquires]

I agree with what everyone has said so far. In order to get the respect of your students, you must first be worthy of respect, and that means not tolerating ridiculous behavior (like throwing stuff) and being comfortable with the material. If you come across as a pushover who consistently makes mistakes, students will eat you alive. Yes, they should have some inherent respect for persons in positions of authority, but unfortnately, this is not the world many of us teach in. Some concrete suggestions for next semester:

1) Don't dress like a student. Many see the low sartorial standards of graduate school as one of the perks, but when you are teaching, you'll command more respect if you look like an authority figure. You don't need a business suit, but a pair of pressed slacks, a tailored shirt, and adherence to basic grooming guidelines will help quite a bit (hair combed, beard trimmed if you're a man, etc.)

2) Be prepared. Students can tell when their instructor is flailing. Know the material and know it well. If you make mistakes, correct them without dissolving into a puddle of shame right in front of them. If you don't have the answer to one of their questions, assuming it's a relevant question, tell them you'll look into it and have an answer during the next class.

3) Set clear policies and stick to them. You get better at this the longer you teach, and your policy sheet/syllabus will inevitably grow as you include all contingencies, but at minimum, you should outline policies for attendance (including a policy for late arrivals/early departures), assignment submission (when and how), grade disputes, office hours, classroom participation, use of technology (laptops, cell phones, etc.).

4) Have consequences. If a student is disrupting class, kick them out, dock participation points, count them absent, whatever, but don't give the impression that you are tolerating it. Respond calmly. Don't let the class know that this is upsetting you. Treat it as a matter of course and fume/cry/vent in your office/home later if you need to.

[larryc]

I just reread my comments and they are too harsh. I apologize.

For this semester, let it go.

Next semester, on Day 1, remain in control of your classroom at all times. When students engage in private conversations, stop the class and break it up. You can smile while you do this, you can make it a joke: "Hey, I wouldn't want to listen to me either! But you know what, we are here to learn, and your talking interrupts the learning of others. So can we make a deal--I'll try to be more interesting, and you two promise to hold your conversations until after class? Good." But you absolutely must stop it as soon as it begins, every time. Overt displays of disrespect such as theatrical sighs or rolling of the eyes get called out immediately as well. Second offense in a week and you ask them to leave: "Johnny, I see that I am still boring you. You are going to have to pick up your books and leave now. Be sure to get the notes from someone. You are welcome back in the next class."

You don't have to be an ass, you don't have to get angry (and in fact you should not), but you must always be in control of your classroom. You only have to keep hard at it for the first couple of weeks and the class will largely regulate itself. Remain vigilant however.

[sugaree]

C'mon guys, this is a grad student TA, likely dealing with his/her first semester. Of course it's difficult to deal with disrespectful students! I remember when I was first TAing and a student was upset about some course policy of mine that I refused to budge on for him and he walked away from me muttering b*tch (because he was too chicken to say it to my face). Now, no student of mine would get away with such behavior and I would kick them out until they issued a formal apology (and maybe even kick them out for good). But at the time? I was upset and didn't know what to do so I just ignored him.

OP, you've gotten good advice here. Don't be too upset, even though I agree that this semester is "lost" for you. The good news is, the semester is almost over. More good news: with experience this disrespectful stuff becomes easier to deal with. Even more good news: you're a TA and needn't worry about getting GREAT course evaluations in order to support your tenure bid (yes, future assistantships could require good course evaluations, but no one is going to hold a bad class against you if you are new to teaching).